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Does religion dictate morality...another perspective?

Moz

Religion. A pox on all their Houses.
OK guess I have a 2nd reply. It has been discovered that animals like chimps & dogs have moral metrics. If most religions teach that animals don’t have souls- who’s dictating their morals?
Hi Dian Fossey's work actually shows that chimps have no moral code or empaty outside their family group. They will gleefully tear apart any outsider, she was shocked when she saw the behaviour.

And as a dog owner for my whole life, dogs are glorious creatures but moral, i've not seen it.
Peace.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Morality is a code of conduct and behavior that is designed to maximize the group. Morality is not about maximizing the subjective needs of individuals. Faith in God is important to maximizing the group, since it helps the ego control itself. God supersedes the ego; individual, and defines general principles common to all; objective reality. Relative morality, which is taught by the Atheist and Progressive religions, maximize the individual, but not the group therefore it is subjective=relative.

For example, thou shall not steal. This commandment maximizes the group since it builds trust between members of the group and minimizes the resources needed to counter thieves. It also requires everyone work, which is good for group GNP. Relative morality is something that a thief would prefer. They will subjectively justify stealing in their minds, so they can act on impulse and maximize themselves. This causes problems for the group and wastes resources countering the thief. The same team logic applies to all ten commandants.

The team or the group is more than the sum of its parts. By maximizing the team, all the team members are raised higher than as individuals. This sweet spot, where the team becomes than more the sum of it parts; championship team, is based on objectivity. Not every subjective team path will work. It has to funnel down a narrow path; objective.

Fear of God is the beginning of knowledge and wisdom. Or fear of God; control of subjective impulse and relative reference, brings the possibility of objectivity. For example, Science tries to be objective. Objectivity in science is not developed based on relative perception. It is based on universal group verification; team code, that elevates all; Morality=Team Objectivity.

Objectivity requires sacrifice of the ego subjectivity, in favor of the needs of the team. Teams with too many subjective hot dogs will never become the champion, even if all the players are skilled. Champions require self sacrifice in favor the team machine.
 

Jos

Well-Known Member
You are going round and around in a circle....on your own.
Sorry about that but it just seems illogical that different moral intuitions would be objective. Or maybe you mean they're objective in terms of how they're felt? Like the feelings are objectively real?
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Sorry about that but it just seems illogical that different moral intuitions would be objective. Or maybe you mean they're objective in terms of how they're felt? Like the feelings are objectively real?

Morality is a general term for genetically coded group affiliation behaviours.

It can have various forms of expression.

The precise behaviours are not the point. What has evolved is the meta program of group affiliation. Specific instances have variations.

Metaphor - snowflakes. Because they are all water subject to a process, and have fundamental similarities, yet are unique. OK ?

Exact isomorphic mapping is not required for metaphors. They are inherently approximations.

What is required is some attempt to understand what is being metaphorically described or hypothetically proposed.
 
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syo

Well-Known Member
But hang on a minute! Doesn't that mean that they, themselves, have actually made the choice? Whose morals, and whose spiritual needs, are in fact in play here? Certainly not the "god" of their last faith or church. I think you all know where I'm going? How would you respond?
in paganism we have a saying from the delphi oracle, 'know yourself and you will know the universe and the gods.'
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
We clearly share a view about the lack of integrity being exposed when moral behaviour is only a product of fear or coercion.

Although to be technically correct, a person could be 9/10ths degenerate, by dint of considering rape and murder for example, but still moral if they choose not to do it.

It is actions that can be immoral, not merely considering them, IMO, because we all have the capacity to be what we consider immoral.

That person considering rape who only refrains for fear of either god or the law is nevertheless refraining from being immoral, even though he may be internally degenerate.

I don't see anyone as being either moral or immoral in totality. We all display both on a daily basis. It's all a question of degree and frequency.
Then there are the finer points......for instance, if a person has tendencies towards pedophilia, but he does not act on the impulses, is he moral or immoral?
 

ArtieE

Well-Known Member
Morality is a code of conduct and behavior that is designed to maximize the group.
It wasn't designed, it just evolved.
Faith in God is important to maximizing the group, since it helps the ego control itself.
Sure. If we can get sociopaths and psychopaths to believe in God and follow the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule it's better for the rest of us.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Morality and ethics are complicated. I'm always open to ideas. Explain why one is moral if one refrains from immoral acts out of fear.

Why should one who has realised the oneness of the truth in all fear? As an upanishad asks "He who perceives all beings as the Self’ for him how can there be delusion or grief, when he sees this oneness (everywhere)?"
 
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