BREXIT-DOA

[TagliatelliMonster]

The EU is not the enemy unless we make them so. If we were to leave without a deal and refuse to pay what we owe, then they (and the US) will have us by the balls, because we need trade deals.

Honestly, if the UK leaves without a deal, there won't be any trade deals in the near future. No matter if the UK pays what it owes or not.

Why? Because leaving without a deal will inevitably create a hard border in Ireland. There's no way around that. The border of northern ireland would become the new EU border. And we can't have the gates open. It's that simple. Having a hard border there will certainly put Good Friday treaty under stress. We all know what that means.

US politicians have already declared that there will be no trade deal if there is even only the smallest hint that this treaty is put under stress. The EU also, will not negotiate any trade deals with countries that are at risk of erupting in civil war.

The UK will be left as an isolated island, doomed to trade according to WTO rules with an Ireland ready to explode at any second.


MPs realise this. This is why they did what they did the past 2 weeks.
It's also why it's safe to say that Boris The Animal is dumber then dumb.

 

[Notanumber]

The trouble is that modern Popularist Movements exist only based on having enemies.
In America it is the Mexicans and other border crossers
In the UK it is the EU and immigrants
Everywhere, and especially in the Info Wars mind (They started it) it is George Soros

You must have enemies to get elected nowadays - very sad really

The Left specialise in creating enemies by calling anyone that disagrees with them racist or fascist or some other nonsense.

 

[Lyndon]

That's because much of their opposition is racist, fascist, or both

 

[Notanumber]

At least you don’t try to deny it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

At least you don’t try to deny it.

When it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, looks like a duck,....

 

[England my lionheart]

Myeah, I thought about that as well...

Imagine for some reason a new referendum with 3 options:
- leave, but only with a deal
- leave, deal or no deal
- remain

Suppose there's suddenly an overwhelming majority voting for remain and the whole thing is called off....

European UK politicians would almost be forced to apologize for the entire thing. I wouldn't want to be one of them, entering EU parliament for a session. I'ld be so embarassed.... I feel like UK would have lost all credibility. It would be humiliating beyond belief and it would be used against them, directly or indirectly, for years to come.

Even if everyone is being respectful about it and simply never bring it up... it would be hanging there in the air, casting a shadow over everybody. It's almost inevitable that it would create at the very least a very strange atmosphere ...


Nevertheless, I would still consider it the prefered outcome. I'ld just hope that everyone could be mature about it and simply forget it happened. But we all know that chances are rather low that politicians could be mature about that.

I disagree it's past a point of no return. As long as no divorce papers are signed, there's always a way back.
But yea, sure... circumstances would be less then ideal.

It is what it is.

Cameron gambled and messed up. There's not much more to say then that...

I'm thinking we will leave with a deal,no deal is as bad for the EU as it is for us,this deal should have been done ages ago,it's embarrassing that it's taken a Buffon like Boris threatening no deal to get it,for me though there is no way back.

 

[England my lionheart]

The EU is not the enemy unless we make them so. If we were to leave without a deal and refuse to pay what we owe, then they (and the US) will have us by the balls, because we need trade deals.

I've never considered the EU as an enemy,I only considered us not being European,we've never really been fully in and to a many people there is no direct benefit for not being quite a full part of it.

 

[England my lionheart]

I suspect we will get a deal, worse than the one May agreed, and Boris will hail it as a great victory and the minions will all rejoice and vote him in again.
Sad really

And it will revolve around the backstop,the EU have made good use of it because it's the most difficult thing to resolve,this though has taken attention from other aspects of a deal,we should have gone in hard in the begining.

 

[Altfish]

And it will revolve around the backstop,the EU have made good use of it because it's the most difficult thing to resolve,this though has taken attention from other aspects of a deal,we should have gone in hard in the begining.

The trouble is too many on the Leave campaign said (before and after the referendum) that the deal will be 'easiest in history', 'done in the morning', etc., etc. when patently it isn't. But they've dug their own pits from which they can not get out of.

 

[England my lionheart]

The trouble is too many on the Leave campaign said (before and after the referendum) that the deal will be 'easiest in history', 'done in the morning', etc., etc. when patently it isn't. But they've dug their own pits from which they can not get out of.

Of course it was never going to be easy as soon as the coward Cameron jumped ship,that in itself put us on a poor footing and then we get may,a remainder,"I'll just bend over so do what you like".

Banks hate uncertainty,if we had gone hard from the beginning they can cope with it,3 years of uncertainty they can't.

 

[Altfish]

Of course it was never going to be easy as soon as the coward Cameron jumped ship,that in itself put us on a poor footing and then we get may,a remainder,"I'll just bend over so do what you like".

Banks hate uncertainty,if we had gone hard from the beginning they can cope with it,3 years of uncertainty they can't.

But 'speed' was never available to us or the EU. We were sold promises that could not be delivered. Trade deals are not easy - as was said by Project Fear - but we were told not to worry, it is easy.

Banks, businesses hate uncertainty, but as soon as we voted Leave, that's what we got and continue to have.

 

[columbus]

And it will revolve around the backstop,

I'm an outsider, I can barely keep up with the idiocy in my own country.
So, please explain what is meant by "the backstop".
I don't get it.
Tom

 

[Altfish]

I'm an outsider, I can barely keep up with the idiocy in my own country.
So, please explain what is meant by "the backstop".
I don't get it.
Tom

The Good Friday Agreement which was the start /end of the peace process in Northern Ireland relies on a friction less border between Northern Ireland and Eire. Which is fine whilst the UK is in the EU; but as soon as we leave a border needs to be 'imposed' to monitor goods and people.
The Backstop is a temporary solution that will go away if a permanent one is found. No one has yet come up with a credible permanent solution.

 

[columbus]

The Good Friday Agreement which was the start /end of the peace process in Northern Ireland relies on a friction less border between Northern Ireland and Eire. Which is fine whilst the UK is in the EU; but as soon as we leave a border needs to be 'imposed' to monitor goods and people.
The Backstop is a temporary solution that will go away if a permanent one is found. No one has yet come up with a credible permanent solution.

So, The Backstop is an abstract concept that everyone assumes somebody else will make a concrete reality, without knowing who or why or when?

Sounds like Brexit itself.
Tom

 

[Estro Felino]

The Good Friday Agreement which was the start /end of the peace process in Northern Ireland relies on a friction less border between Northern Ireland and Eire. Which is fine whilst the UK is in the EU; but as soon as we leave a border needs to be 'imposed' to monitor goods and people.
The Backstop is a temporary solution that will go away if a permanent one is found. No one has yet come up with a credible permanent solution.

Unless the Irish elect a Souverainist Government, ally of Salvini and Le Pen

 

[Altfish]

So, The Backstop is an abstract concept that everyone assumes somebody else will make a concrete reality, without knowing who or why or when?

Sounds like Brexit itself.
Tom

Yes, at the moment that's it

 

[columbus]

Unless the Irish elect a Souverainist Government, ally of Salvini and Le Pen

Could you explain this to an American?
What you posted makes no sense to me.

Please start at the beginning. I don't understand the terms Souverainist, and I don't understand Salvini or LePen.
Tom

 

[Altfish]

Unless the Irish elect a Souverainist Government, ally of Salvini and Le Pen

The best solution would be a reunited Ireland

 

[Estro Felino]

Could you explain this to an American?
What you posted makes no sense to me.

Please start at the beginning. I don't understand the terms Souverainist, and I don't understand Salvini or LePen.
Tom

Ok.
In Europe the terms left or right are slightly outdated since the real political debate revolves around Souverainism vs Globalism.
Souverainists are for undoing the European Union to recreate a new trade community where countries keep their economic sovereignty.
The most influential Souverainists are Matteo Salvini and Marine Le Pen, at the moment.
Souverainism - Wikipedia

The most extreme globalists are for a United States of Europe with its own army, its own cabinet, which practically recreates the subordination of the US states to Wa DC in America.

 

[Altfish]

Ok.
In Europe the terms left or right are slightly outdated since the real political debate revolves around Souverainism vs Globalism.
Souverainists are for undoing the European Union to recreate a new trade community where countries keep their economic sovereignty.
The most influential Souverainists are Matteo Salvini and Marine Le Pen, at the moment.
Souverainism - Wikipedia

The most extreme globalists are for a United States of Europe with its own army, its own cabinet, which practically recreates the subordination of the US states to Wa DC in America.

What an unbiased and neutral view

Now would you care to explain what this baloney means...
"Souverainists are for undoing the European Union to recreate a new trade community where countries keep their economic sovereignty."