Does Tesla Not Understand Humans?

[Revoltingest]

In the news....
'Bizarre' Video Shows Tesla Driver Apparently Asleep On Mass Pike
Excerpted with added underlining....
NEWTON (CBS) – It was a frightening scene for one witness on the Mass Pike Sunday – a Tesla driver apparently asleep at the wheel. Video posted to Twitterseems to show the car on auto-pilot, without an alert person in the driver’s seat.

“It was just so strange and baffling” said Dakota Randall, who shot the video while driving through Newton on the highway. “I thought I saw somebody asleep at the wheel, but I wasn’t sure so I did a double-take. Sure enough there was somebody with his head right between his legs.”

In the video, the driver is hunched over and seemingly fast asleep. A person in the passenger seat doesn’t look to be awake either.

Randall said he tried to wake them up by honking his horn, but it didn’t work.

“It was just so bizarre that I just had to get it on video, because it’s so strange,” he said. “They looked like they needed to go home and go to bed.”

A spokeswoman for Tesla, which makes cars equipped with driver assistance, declined to comment on the video. Tesla tells drivers they are supposed to be alert at all times with both hands on the steering wheel.



If a task like driving is made too automated, the repetitive view makes it
dang near impossible for a human. On locomotives, a device ensures
that the driver remains awake. For Tesla to lack this strikes me as a
dangerous lack. The underlined text bespeaks ignorance of the problem.
to remain alert.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I just finished a long drive from Chicago to Denver and back, much of it an intensely boring drive through Nebraska. For much of it I found cruise control to be a blessing. But I also found that as I became less involved with the process of driving I became more likely to doze off at the wheel.

 

[Erebus]

This reminds me of the weird paradox with seat belts. The theory is that because they reduce driver fatalities they make people feel safer. As a result, people drive more recklessly and end up increasing the number of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities. There was actually a suggestion that a big spike in the middle of the steering wheel would likely reduce the number of accidents by making drivers intensely aware of the danger to themselves should they crash (the Tullock's Spike thought experiment).

Now that theory is somewhat controversial as it's difficult to quantify how many pedestrian casualties were a direct result of mandatory seat belt laws. If there's truth to it though, a similar issue would face self-driving cars once people get past the initial insecurity about using them. Unless we eventually get self-driving cars advanced enough to exceed human reaction times and initiative (and assuming those cars aren't prone to malfunction), I can easily see how the current batch may present a problem.

 

[Wu Wei]

In the news....
'Bizarre' Video Shows Tesla Driver Apparently Asleep On Mass Pike
Excerpted with added underlining....
NEWTON (CBS) – It was a frightening scene for one witness on the Mass Pike Sunday – a Tesla driver apparently asleep at the wheel. Video posted to Twitterseems to show the car on auto-pilot, without an alert person in the driver’s seat.

“It was just so strange and baffling” said Dakota Randall, who shot the video while driving through Newton on the highway. “I thought I saw somebody asleep at the wheel, but I wasn’t sure so I did a double-take. Sure enough there was somebody with his head right between his legs.”

In the video, the driver is hunched over and seemingly fast asleep. A person in the passenger seat doesn’t look to be awake either.

Randall said he tried to wake them up by honking his horn, but it didn’t work.

“It was just so bizarre that I just had to get it on video, because it’s so strange,” he said. “They looked like they needed to go home and go to bed.”

A spokeswoman for Tesla, which makes cars equipped with driver assistance, declined to comment on the video. Tesla tells drivers they are supposed to be alert at all times with both hands on the steering wheel.



If a task like driving is made too automated, the repetitive view makes it
dang near impossible for a human. On locomotives, a device ensures
that the driver remains awake. For Tesla to lack this strikes me as a
dangerous lack. The underlined text bespeaks ignorance of the problem.
to remain alert.

Holy frijoles Batman...that's insane

I use to drive that every day…that is insane, asleep at the wheel in the Boston area... with Boston drives. They’re lucky they’re alive. However, if they are heading out of Boston they have a better chance of survival, but heading in, the road splits a couple times and there are rather large barriers in the way, oh and a river too

 

[Stevicus]

In the news....
'Bizarre' Video Shows Tesla Driver Apparently Asleep On Mass Pike
Excerpted with added underlining....
NEWTON (CBS) – It was a frightening scene for one witness on the Mass Pike Sunday – a Tesla driver apparently asleep at the wheel. Video posted to Twitterseems to show the car on auto-pilot, without an alert person in the driver’s seat.

“It was just so strange and baffling” said Dakota Randall, who shot the video while driving through Newton on the highway. “I thought I saw somebody asleep at the wheel, but I wasn’t sure so I did a double-take. Sure enough there was somebody with his head right between his legs.”

In the video, the driver is hunched over and seemingly fast asleep. A person in the passenger seat doesn’t look to be awake either.

Randall said he tried to wake them up by honking his horn, but it didn’t work.

“It was just so bizarre that I just had to get it on video, because it’s so strange,” he said. “They looked like they needed to go home and go to bed.”

A spokeswoman for Tesla, which makes cars equipped with driver assistance, declined to comment on the video. Tesla tells drivers they are supposed to be alert at all times with both hands on the steering wheel.



If a task like driving is made too automated, the repetitive view makes it
dang near impossible for a human. On locomotives, a device ensures
that the driver remains awake. For Tesla to lack this strikes me as a
dangerous lack. The underlined text bespeaks ignorance of the problem.
to remain alert.

Well, to answer the question in your thread title, I don't think anyone really understands humans. Even humans don't understand humans.

But all in all, I agree that they should install devices to ensure that drivers remain awake. What helps me stay awake is turning up the radio really loud with hard rock. But then, I don't have an auto pilot on my car. I have to rely solely on my wits and reflexes to survive the hurly-burly out on the roads.

I don't really trust those auto pilot things. They seem to have potential, but it seems they still have some bugs to work out.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

In the news....
'Bizarre' Video Shows Tesla Driver Apparently Asleep On Mass Pike
Excerpted with added underlining....
NEWTON (CBS) – It was a frightening scene for one witness on the Mass Pike Sunday – a Tesla driver apparently asleep at the wheel. Video posted to Twitterseems to show the car on auto-pilot, without an alert person in the driver’s seat.

“It was just so strange and baffling” said Dakota Randall, who shot the video while driving through Newton on the highway. “I thought I saw somebody asleep at the wheel, but I wasn’t sure so I did a double-take. Sure enough there was somebody with his head right between his legs.”

In the video, the driver is hunched over and seemingly fast asleep. A person in the passenger seat doesn’t look to be awake either.

Randall said he tried to wake them up by honking his horn, but it didn’t work.

“It was just so bizarre that I just had to get it on video, because it’s so strange,” he said. “They looked like they needed to go home and go to bed.”

A spokeswoman for Tesla, which makes cars equipped with driver assistance, declined to comment on the video. Tesla tells drivers they are supposed to be alert at all times with both hands on the steering wheel.



If a task like driving is made too automated, the repetitive view makes it
dang near impossible for a human. On locomotives, a device ensures
that the driver remains awake. For Tesla to lack this strikes me as a
dangerous lack. The underlined text bespeaks ignorance of the problem.
to remain alert.

Well, that's an anomaly. My brother in law demonstrated the "auto drive" feature, and showed what happens if you don't put a wee bit of pressure on the wheel, now and again:

The interior alarm starts softly, and quickly gets pretty darn loud-- in an effort to wake you up-- supposedly, the car will then slow down and exit to the side, although we didn't demonstrate that, as the alarm was annoying enough... he lightly touched the steering wheel just enough to register with the computer (it barely twitched, but it did move a bit) and the alarm was silenced.

So. Either there was something wrong with that car? Or the video-maker had *just* caught them falling asleep, before the internal alarm went off?

Or? There was something seriously wrong-- medically-speaking-- with the occupants of the car in question-- we know it can't be carbon monoxide, but something else might have happened instead. A Freon leak into the passenger compartment, enough to put them asleep? (Freon, or whichever refrigerant Tesla uses, is non-toxic, but so is nitrogen. Displace enough oxygen, and you pass out. )

I call Shenanigans, here.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Well, to answer the question in your thread title, I don't think anyone really understands humans. Even humans don't understand humans.

But all in all, I agree that they should install devices to ensure that drivers remain awake. What helps me stay awake is turning up the radio really loud with hard rock. But then, I don't have an auto pilot on my car. I have to rely solely on my wits and reflexes to survive the hurly-burly out on the roads.

I don't really trust those auto pilot things. They seem to have potential, but it seems they still have some bugs to work out.

Tesla has done that-- if you don't put in minor steering wheel corrections from time to time? An alarm sounds-- it's really obnoxious. My brother in law has a Tesla, and demonstrated the effect-- it really is an annoying sound.

I don't recall how long between steering wheel twitches is required, but the video was *so* short, I call Fake.

Likely the person taking the video? Hated electric vehicles (or similar) and deliberately left out the driver being woken up by the internal alarm.

 

[Ouroboros]

I have been a bit critical of automated driving for years. It's not just having sleeping operators of the car, but issues of faulty software (the "AI" isn't there yet) and malicious hacking of the software.

It's already been theorized hacked cars on Los Angeles traffic could become an issue (probably placed under terrorism). And... here's the crazy thing, apparently the Tesla cars can't read stop signs yet. It's a "feature" coming out later this year. Wouldn't that be one of the first priorities?

I think the way it should be dealt with is not having all this automation thrown out in one batch but do it step by step. My car has adaptive cruise control and lane-keep which helps a lot. It's a tremendous help. Also, it reads speed signs and shows the speed limit on the dash board. So the next natural step would be to have it read stop signs and traffic signals, and so on. Until such a point when the car can do all things right, but is only still helping the driver, not taking over. The car should prevent accidents by making sure the driver doesn't miss something, but the driver always in control.

 

[Ouroboros]

Well, that's an anomaly. My brother in law demonstrated the "auto drive" feature, and showed what happens if you don't put a wee bit of pressure on the wheel, now and again:

The interior alarm starts softly, and quickly gets pretty darn loud-- in an effort to wake you up-- supposedly, the car will then slow down and exit to the side, although we didn't demonstrate that, as the alarm was annoying enough... he lightly touched the steering wheel just enough to register with the computer (it barely twitched, but it did move a bit) and the alarm was silenced.

So. Either there was something wrong with that car? Or the video-maker had *just* caught them falling asleep, before the internal alarm went off?

Or? There was something seriously wrong-- medically-speaking-- with the occupants of the car in question-- we know it can't be carbon monoxide, but something else might have happened instead. A Freon leak into the passenger compartment, enough to put them asleep? (Freon, or whichever refrigerant Tesla uses, is non-toxic, but so is nitrogen. Displace enough oxygen, and you pass out. )

I call Shenanigans, here.

I suspect it was something like you mentioned last. They were probably drunk, or worse, could've been dead even.

 

[Ouroboros]

This reminds me of the weird paradox with seat belts. The theory is that because they reduce driver fatalities they make people feel safer. As a result, people drive more recklessly and end up increasing the number of pedestrian and cyclist fatalities. There was actually a suggestion that a big spike in the middle of the steering wheel would likely reduce the number of accidents by making drivers intensely aware of the danger to themselves should they crash (the Tullock's Spike thought experiment).

Now that theory is somewhat controversial as it's difficult to quantify how many pedestrian casualties were a direct result of mandatory seat belt laws. If there's truth to it though, a similar issue would face self-driving cars once people get past the initial insecurity about using them. Unless we eventually get self-driving cars advanced enough to exceed human reaction times and initiative (and assuming those cars aren't prone to malfunction), I can easily see how the current batch may present a problem.

Good points. Essentially it's a form of evolution of cars.

I can see how seat belts made cars safer, but by being safer, the speed limits probably increase (I think?). Self-driving cars will drive closer to each other because of their reaction time. So when something does happen, speed, proximity, and so on will just create a larger mess.

--edit
by the way to add to my previous post, my car has "stay awake" alarm and even a "take a coffee break" alarm that will increase in severity until you actually stop and take 15 min break.

 

[Revoltingest]

Holy frijoles Batman...that's insane

I use to drive that every day…that is insane, asleep at the wheel in the Boston area... with Boston drives. They’re lucky they’re alive. However, if they are heading out of Boston they have a better chance of survival, but heading in, the road splits a couple times and there are rather large barriers in the way, oh and a river too

I've driven in & around Boston too.
It's a horror I try to avoid.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, to answer the question in your thread title, I don't think anyone really understands humans. Even humans don't understand humans.

Of course we do have some understanding.

But all in all, I agree that they should install devices to ensure that drivers remain awake. What helps me stay awake is turning up the radio really loud with hard rock. But then, I don't have an auto pilot on my car. I have to rely solely on my wits and reflexes to survive the hurly-burly out on the roads.

I don't really trust those auto pilot things. They seem to have potential, but it seems they still have some bugs to work out.

Currently Tesla offers an intersection of a beta testing & Darwin awards, eh.

 

[Ouroboros]

I suspect it was something like you mentioned last. They were probably drunk, or worse, could've been dead even.

Oh, just thought of how this could be the plot in some criminal drama.

Imagine a car driving around the city with a "driver" slouching over the steering wheel. It drives around, around, around, until battery runs out. Someone finds the car and sees the driver dead. Now... the mystery will be where did he start from? The car's been hacked so the tracking isn't working, so no good there. No phone, so phind-my-phony doesn't work either.... whodunnit?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I suspect it was something like you mentioned last. They were probably drunk, or worse, could've been dead even.

Drunk! I had not considered being drunk-- yes, that would be perfect. I'm afraid I'm rather intolerant of drunks, myself, and do not often think of that possibility as a result.

But yes-- I've been around people so incredibly drunk, that you had to turn their heads to the side, if they were lying in the rain (or a sprinkler system), otherwise they would drown as their open mouths filled with rainwater....

Absolutely, yes-- a pair of drunks would easily sleep through the alarms inside the Tesla.

*sigh*

I would so be in favor of all cars being fitted with a alcohol sensor-- and refuse to engage in drive mode, if it sensed alcohol in the compartment.

And? I say, "so what" if it sensed false positives-- is that such a bad thing? If the person in question isn't actually drunk? A simple roll-down of the windows with the fan on, a few seconds of delay at worst, would clear the false reading.

Worst case scenario: They learn to not wear so much horrible-smelling 'perfume' for next time... and have to get out, change their shirt or something.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Oh, just thought of how this could be the plot in some criminal drama.

Imagine a car driving around the city with a "driver" slouching over the steering wheel. It drives around, around, around, until battery runs out. Someone finds the car and sees the driver dead. Now... the mystery will be where did he start from? The car's been hacked so the tracking isn't working, so no good there. No phone, so phind-my-phony doesn't work either.... whodunnit?

It's too bad the TV show, Bones was canceled. They could have had the car filled with insects or something, and the driver was just skin and bones, when found...

Effectively destroying the forensic evidence... except for the Super Friends at the Jeffersonian, wherein even a few molecules is sufficient to bring a conviction.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Of course we do have some understanding.

Currently Tesla offers an intersection of a beta testing & Darwin awards, eh.

Would the Darwin Award include as special Tesla Adjunct on the certificate?

I wonder....

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, that's an anomaly. My brother in law demonstrated the "auto drive" feature, and showed what happens if you don't put a wee bit of pressure on the wheel, now and again:

The interior alarm starts softly, and quickly gets pretty darn loud-- in an effort to wake you up-- supposedly, the car will then slow down and exit to the side, although we didn't demonstrate that, as the alarm was annoying enough... he lightly touched the steering wheel just enough to register with the computer (it barely twitched, but it did move a bit) and the alarm was silenced.

So. Either there was something wrong with that car? Or the video-maker had *just* caught them falling asleep, before the internal alarm went off?

Or? There was something seriously wrong-- medically-speaking-- with the occupants of the car in question-- we know it can't be carbon monoxide, but something else might have happened instead. A Freon leak into the passenger compartment, enough to put them asleep? (Freon, or whichever refrigerant Tesla uses, is non-toxic, but so is nitrogen. Displace enough oxygen, and you pass out. )

I call Shenanigans, here.

Perhaps Tesla's carbon monoxide generator was over-producing?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Perhaps Tesla's carbon monoxide generator was over-producing?

Hmmm..... leave it to Tesla, to put in a mechanism that promotes plant growth, but fail to put in the little silver rosebud vases at either side....

(obscure automotive trivia point...)

 

[Wu Wei]

I've driven in & around Boston too.
It's a horror I try to avoid.

Did it everyday for years, actually part of my "learning to drive" was done there

 

[Revoltingest]

Hmmm..... leave it to Tesla, to put in a mechanism that promotes plant growth, but fail to put in the little silver rosebud vases at either side....

(obscure automotive trivia point...)

Everyone knows of the vases.
Although my stock in the manufacturer hasn't done well lately.