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Colossians 1:16 Jesus the Almighty, [John 1:3, Jesus is God incarnated

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
That's incorrect. What you have is occasional 'descriptive' names being used as words, thusly creating the false idea, that Adonai , isn't a name for the Lord, in the Bible. That is why Adonai, is a name of Deity, ie here meaning JHVH, or the Tetragrammaton.

In the Christian Bible, although the theistic inferences are traditionally considered [somewhat differently, so Adonai when used in a Deific manner, Adonai Elohim, for example, is thusly a 'name' of the Lord.


Jehovah is a version of the Tetragrammaton, the 'actual name', being inferred or not, thusly as we don't say the name usually , in common conversation, [tradition, it is a way to write the Tetragrammaton, regardless of belief, ie whether that is 'correct', or whatever.

As we change sounds cross language wise, when a name is inferred , we go by intent if meaning.

Anyways, Jehovah is traditionaly fine both written, and said.

Your post is just full of inaccuracies. Adonai is not God's name, it is a Hebrew word that means lord or master. Adonai was one of the words the Jews substituted for God's name to keep from saying his name. At other times they would use Elohim because the word Adonai was already in the verse and they didn't want to say Adonai Adonai. Show me a scripture where God said his name was Adonai.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Your post is just full of inaccuracies. Adonai is not God's name, it is a Hebrew word that means lord or master. Adonai was one of the words the Jews substituted for God's name to keep from saying his name. At other times they would use Elohim because the word Adonai was already in the verse and they didn't want to say Adonai Adonai. Show me a scripture where God said his name was Adonai.
Psalms,
Isaiah,

And elsewhere


You are probably referring to Exodus, in which case, the Lord has more than one name.
 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
John 1:3

Colossians 1:16

These verses are clearly saying that Jesus, the Lord, is the God whom all things were created, so forth. It's quite obvious.
Hebrews 1:8.

So, in a direct reading, not [whatever non direct argument your church makes, if you as a christian don't believe this, then what is your argument?

If there is only one Lord of Christians, believers, then

2 Corinthians 6:18
Has to mean Jesus.
'Lord Almighty'

If you don't believe this, how do you reconcile the direct words.
We're talking about direct words, here, however if you have some other argument, that's fine.

Agape! Shalom...

Apostle John never knew Jesus, he was not the disciple!
Paul knew so little about Jesus that he never wrote anything about the man or his real mission.

So the idea that Jesus is God is is nonsense, and certainly not direct or primary evidence. It's rubbish.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Apostle John never knew Jesus, he was not the disciple!
Paul knew so little about Jesus that he never wrote anything about the man or his real mission.

So the idea that Jesus is God is is nonsense, and certainly not direct or primary evidence. It's rubbish.
Oooooh! So you are against Yohanan!

I suspected there was a wolfie behind that sheep disguise.
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
This smacks of magic to me, as if the words you use have some power unavailable to others. My relationship with God is simple and reverent. I try to quietly worship him alone.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Your post is just full of inaccuracies. Adonai is not God's name, it is a Hebrew word that means lord or master. Adonai was one of the words the Jews substituted for God's name to keep from saying his name. At other times they would use Elohim because the word Adonai was already in the verse and they didn't want to say Adonai Adonai. Show me a scripture where God said his name was Adonai.
Do you know the difference between 'a' name, and 'the' name?

There's your answer.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Oooooh! So you are against Yohanan!

I suspected there was a wolfie behind that sheep disguise.
The scriptures can show us that John the Apostle was no witness.

While his collection of reports and accounts can be very valuable for students of history, the way in which he has scattered them along a timeline which is totally different from the synoptic gospels shows that he was not there!

And since you offered no defence towards Paul's disinterest in or ignorance about Jesus's person and mission, then that is ok by me.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I just think there is a difference between a title and a name.
Traditionally, though I might have a similar configuration, to Judaism, [regarding names, there are differences. So, for example, the Bible does have the Tetragrammaton, as either a name, or a title, traditionally, for me, that would be a 'name', so in the christian configuration,
JHVH=God
Jesus=God
[Spirit, =God, (though not a "person".

That is the christian configuration, for me.
Because of the religion, God has more than one name, [Christian Bible, and I don't say everything the same as standard Judaism, or, write things, the same, necessarily.

So, you either need to explain your theism, or, I am not going to understand, what you mean, when you say name, title, so forth.

'God', for instance, is a name of the Biblical God. It correlates to more than one Hebrew name, which are all names.


So, clarification is needed to have a further discussion.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The reason why the 'Jewish Bible', in English, is the "same bible", as what I would read, is because the same methodology is used, in translation. That is why there isn't a problem, either reading the Jewish Bible, or the 'Old Testament',

[Tanack, Old Testament.

Religious belief and traditionally, there is a difference in interpretation, however the methodology is the same.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The scriptures can show us that John the Apostle was no witness.

While his collection of reports and accounts can be very valuable for students of history, the way in which he has scattered them along a timeline which is totally different from the synoptic gospels shows that he was not there!

And since you offered no defence towards Paul's disinterest in or ignorance about Jesus's person and mission, then that is ok by me.
Those gospels read in a basically non religious manner, have yeshua seemingly saying, 'g-d why have you forsaken me'. Hmm, now, since you are a deist, you are saying that your interpretation has that yeshua, speaking for deity? Yikes, I mean, he literally says he's forsaken by g-d.

Explain that.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Presuming that the yeshua [on the cross, is your authority, then we might guess that perhaps, that yeshua, means a 'different g-d'. Wonderful, then that would be a person practicing a different religion, and is forsaken by 'his g-d', again your problem. Or, it is the only yeshua represented in the new testament, and he is forsaken by 'my god'.

Either way, as a deist, that is your problem, and someone forsaken by [my god, isn't an authority concerning my religion.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Yohanan, John, in
John 1:1-10
John is saying that Jehovah is God, and God manifested as Jesus.

Elsewhere in Scripture, there is a Yeshua who says, 'my g-d', and 'my g-d and your g-d'.

Now , at first read, this might seem like Jesus is just talking about the other aspect of God, the ABBA.

However, there is a problem.

Because of Johns usage of Hebrew description, in
John 1:1-10, John is thusly using the word 'God', as we would presume, 'elohim', [since John is saying that Jesus is the manifestation of Jehovah, the 'Lord' aspect of God.

Now, as 'Lord' aspect of God, Jesus would not be saying 'my g-d and your g-d', He would say, the ABBA, or such. Describing His position in the Divinity, if He is the Lord.

We then have Jesus at John 17, affirming His position in the Deific configuration, making Him elohim, in other words.


So, Jesus , calling Himself, Deific, John 17,
And, Jesus saying 'my g-d and your g-d', doesn't make sense.

Aside from belief, religious belief, John is using Hebrew wording when He calls Jesus the manifestation of God, and Yohanan is clearly calling 'Jehovah', his God.

So why would John, write what is a confusing mix up of wording, ie the use of 'g-d', as separate from Jesus,
When John literally calls Jesus, the manifestation of Jehovah,
He was in the world, and the world knew Him not.


There are thusly either two different yeshuas, and John writes about both, or, something else is entirely wrong, here.
The theology is literally different, by the different usage of 'g-d'-, as a word.

John wouldn't present both, because they don't have the same meaning.

[Two yeshuas, [how did the other yeshua get quoted
[John would not contradict his own Hebrew wording, thus creating a contradiction of meaning.

So, there are variables. What we do know is that there can't be this contradiction, in order to read Scripture in a straightforward manner.


in this discussion, 'Yohanan vs the bible',

I present some aspects regarding Scripture, that one may want to explain, or figure out, in this sort of context.
 

TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
Traditionally, though I might have a similar configuration, to Judaism, [regarding names, there are differences. So, for example, the Bible does have the Tetragrammaton, as either a name, or a title, traditionally, for me, that would be a 'name', so in the christian configuration,
JHVH=God
Jesus=God
[Spirit, =God, (though not a "person".

That is the christian configuration, for me.
Because of the religion, God has more than one name, [Christian Bible, and I don't say everything the same as standard Judaism, or, write things, the same, necessarily.

So, you either need to explain your theism, or, I am not going to understand, what you mean, when you say name, title, so forth.

'God', for instance, is a name of the Biblical God. It correlates to more than one Hebrew name, which are all names.


So, clarification is needed to have a further discussion.

We must be on totally different wavelengths. God is a word that signifies deity. It is a title, not a personal name. When someone of a different religion refers to their God, they aren't talking about my God. So God is a title. Surely you can understand this.

Father is a title. Son is a title. Mother is a title. They are not names. Many people refer to their mother, but that is not her name.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
We must be on totally different wavelengths. God is a word that signifies deity. It is a title, not a personal name. When someone of a different religion refers to their God, they aren't talking about my God. So God is a title. Surely you can understand this.
No, that is incorrect.

God, without specification, is a name, 》》 gothic 》 english name correlate, to more than one name, of God, in the Bible.
[The Biblical God

As a "word", it specifies something
False gods,
Foreign gods
The god Thor
The god Zeus,
So forth.

'God', is both a name, and a title, actually it's also a word, obviously.


Your theory would make the Bible, totally vague.

 
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TrueBeliever37

Well-Known Member
Lord

The Tetragrammaton
Adonai

There is a reason why they translated both of these names as 'Lord'.

Hi Desert Snake,

The reason is Adonai is a Hebrew word that means my Lord or Master. So when you translate the Hebrew word into English, you would translate it as my Lord.

The Jews thought God's name was too holy to pronounce. So when they came to the name of God in their text, they would substitute another word, usually Adonai instead. Their were vowel points attached to the Tetragrammaton in the text to remind them. The translators should have just used God's name. But instead they translated the replacement word, which in this case was Adonai. In the Old Testament most English versions at least capitalize it as LORD, to let us know that the Hebrew word was actually God's name. Unfortunately they have not done the same thing for us in the New Testament, and it has caused a lot of confusion.

Hope this helps.
 
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