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Why Do So Many Westerners Think the Tao is a God?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Because they mistake one of the colors in the Yin Yang symbol as God and the other as earth? Because they are radical dualists?

I actually didn't know people thought that the Tao was a God. I guess I've never encountered that myself. Certainly not at the Tai Chi studio I go to anyway. :)

Check out post #16 in this very thread! Fascinating, eh?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The Tao is God because there is nothing beyond it. In Greek paganism, we call it ''On''. ''On'' means ''that which is''. Tao = On = God. :)

To clarify, are you saying that anything -- anything -- there is nothing beyond is by definition "God"?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Because in important ways, the Tao is the functional equivalent of God - an ineffable, subtle form without form, knowledge of which bestows an "enlightened" life on those who understand it.

I think there's something to what you're saying, Steve. I mean, you may have hit upon one of the reasons the Tao is often confused with a god. But to go beyond what you're saying -- just out of curiosity --- would you say sentience was a necessary attribute of deity?
 

syo

Well-Known Member
To clarify, are you saying that anything -- anything -- there is nothing beyond is by definition "God"?
In greek paganism, the cosmos is One. The One is the strongest number in unity. all fall into the One and there is nothing beyond One. The One can sustain itself perfectly. So the One (who is everything and it sustains itself perfectly) is God.

The definition of ''God'' is: The ''thing'' that has it's own life and it sustains itself perfectly.

If there is something beyond the One, it doesn't matter, because it cannot affect the One. So it's like it doesn't exist. :)
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Check out post #16 in this very thread! Fascinating, eh?
Yes, I did catch that after I posted my reply. Also post 17 is good. That is how I have come to see the Tao as well. In my thinking God is the IS, or that Tao. I remove that anthropomorphic, dualistic face. It's Nature with a capital N, Reality, Ground, Source, Sumit, indivisible. It can be personal, or not.

Seeing beyond dualism really is the key to all of it. No wonder no one gets what I mean by God. :)
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
LOL! Get a grip and read the attachment to my message:
  • Clicking on "Forums" in the topline menu takes you to different RF forum categories
    • Introductions
    • Religious Topics
    • Discuss Individual Religions
      • Abrahamic Religions DIR
      • Dharmic Religions DIR
        • Buddhism DIR
        • Hinduism DIR
        • Jainism DIR
        • Sikhism DIR
If, as you opined, Buddhism is not a religion, why the heck is it listed--by the gods who run RF--as a subforum under Dharmic Religions DIR and why has it taken you close to seven years of membership in RF to raise your objection to calling Buddhism a religion?

Buddhism is NOT a religion, it is a philosophy. There are no deities to be worship, nor is there any dogmatic rituals to be followed. This is what I mean by ignorance...
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Buddhism is a religion. From the Lion's Roar website, if you don't want to take my word for it: Is Buddhism a Religion?

Yes, Buddhism is a religion

A religion is a philosophy that posits an ultimate reality, a path towards experiencing ultimate reality, and the potential for personal transformation, says Charles Prebish. Buddhism checks all those boxes.

.....

What Streng meant to say was that for something to be considered a religion, it must posit a clear and distinct ultimate reality. That ultimate reality can be a God or gods, an impersonal absolute, a force of nature, a ground of being, or some other entity or experience. But without something ultimate — beyond which it is impossible to go — the system at hand is not a religion. In addition, in order to be considered a religion, the system must offer some clear and distinct path, or choice of paths, to the experience of that ultimate reality. While it doesn’t matter whether that path is prayer, ritual, yoga, meditation, some other method, or some combination thereof, there must be a straightforward way for the religious aspirant to gain the experience of the ultimate reality.
Additionally, it has scriptures, rituals, symbols of transcendence, the sense of the sacred, etc. These trappings make Buddhism far more than just a simple philosophy.


Everyone has to find their own truth, I guess....
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Buddhism is a religion. From the Lion's Roar website, if you don't want to take my word for it: Is Buddhism a Religion?

Yes, Buddhism is a religion

A religion is a philosophy that posits an ultimate reality, a path towards experiencing ultimate reality, and the potential for personal transformation, says Charles Prebish. Buddhism checks all those boxes.

.....

What Streng meant to say was that for something to be considered a religion, it must posit a clear and distinct ultimate reality. That ultimate reality can be a God or gods, an impersonal absolute, a force of nature, a ground of being, or some other entity or experience. But without something ultimate — beyond which it is impossible to go — the system at hand is not a religion. In addition, in order to be considered a religion, the system must offer some clear and distinct path, or choice of paths, to the experience of that ultimate reality. While it doesn’t matter whether that path is prayer, ritual, yoga, meditation, some other method, or some combination thereof, there must be a straightforward way for the religious aspirant to gain the experience of the ultimate reality.
Additionally, it has scriptures, rituals, symbols of transcendence, the sense of the sacred, etc. These trappings make Buddhism far more than just a simple philosophy.

But these trappings have been added through the centuries by those that could not stand not being in control.
 

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Buddhism is NOT a religion, it is a philosophy. There are no deities to be worship, nor is there any dogmatic rituals to be followed. This is what I mean by ignorance...

Look, ... I don't have an objection to your claim. What I did and do have is a suggestion.

  • My suggestion is that you take your claim to the folks who run RF and get them to take Buddism out of the Dharmic Religions DIR where it currently is and put it somewhere else, like, say, under the friggin' "Philosophy" forum under EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK".
And I hope to God I don't get a Moderator warning for making that suggestion emphatically.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?


Look, ... I don't have an objection to your claim. What I did and do have is a suggestion.

  • My suggestion is that you take your claim to the folks who run RF and get them to take Buddism out of the Dharmic Religions DIR where it currently is and put it somewhere else, like, say, under the friggin' "Philosophy" forum under EVERYTHING BUT THE KITCHEN SINK".
And I hope to God I don't get a Moderator warning for making that suggestion emphatically.


Breathe,T...breathe..
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
Taoism is from the writings of Lao-tzu. The source is from Lao-tzu. But then Lao-tzu may have had a source as well. A lot of people are reluctant to use the word ‘god’ since it’s been loaded with so much stench. So some will use other words such as source, universe, nature, etc. And then it is perceived that the source or universe or nature and its laws are just other terms for a god and a gods laws from others who cannot perceive differently. (Whether accurate, inaccurate, or compatible in ways.)
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
The origins of Taoism are fascinating...

“Beginning around the 4th century, Taoist texts mentioned using cannabis in censers. Needham cited the (ca. 570 AD) Taoist encyclopedia Wushang Biyao 無上秘要 ("Supreme Secret Essentials") that cannabis was added into ritual incense-burners, and suggested the ancient Taoists experimented systematically with "hallucinogenic smokes".[17] The Yuanshi shangzhen zhongxian ji元始上真眾仙記 ("Records of the Assemblies of the Perfected Immortals"), which is attributed to Ge Hong (283-343), says:

For those who begin practicing the Tao it is not necessary to go into the mountains. … Some with purifying incense and sprinkling and sweeping are also able to call down the Perfected Immortals. The followers of the Lady Wei and of Hsu are of this kind.[18]
Lady Wei Huacun 魏華存 (252-334) and Xu Mi 許謐 (303-376) founded the Taoist Shangqing School. The Shangqing scriptures were supposedly dictated to Yang Xi (330-c. 386) in nightly revelations from immortals, and Needham proposed Yang was "aided almost certainly by cannabis". The Mingyi bielu 名醫別錄 ("Supplementary Records of Famous Physicians"), written by the Taoist pharmacologist Tao Hongjing (456-536), who also wrote the first commentaries to the Shangqing canon, says, "Hemp-seeds (麻勃) are very little used in medicine, but the magician-technicians (shujia 術家) say that if one consumes them with ginseng it will give one preternatural knowledge of events in the future."[19][20] A 6th-century AD Taoist medical work, the Wuzangjing 五臟經 ("Five Viscera Classic") says, "If you wish to command demonic apparitions to present themselves you should constantly eat the inflorescences of the hemp plant."[21]

Joseph Needham connected myths about Magu, "the Hemp Damsel", with early Daoist religious usages of cannabis, pointing out that Magu was goddess of Shandong's sacred Mount Tai, where cannabis "was supposed to be gathered on the seventh day of the seventh month, a day of seance banquets in the Taoist communities."[22]

From - Cannabis in China | Wikiwand
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
Joseph Needham connected myths about Magu, "the Hemp Damsel", with early Daoist religious usages of cannabis, pointing out that Magu was goddess of Shandong's sacred Mount Tai, where cannabis "was supposed to be gathered on the seventh day of the seventh month, a day of seance banquets in the Taoist communities."[22]

And the origin of ‘Hoochie Coochie Man’ ! “On the seventh day of the seventh month, the seven doctors say....”, lol.

Hooch et couchez ?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Why do so many Westerners mistakenly believe either that the Tao is a god or that the Tao did not exist before the gods?
It can be, like this


The same way we associate God with Heaven. In other words, by interactionary derivation, the Dao can be, or is associated with God.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Now, because of varying definitions, or beliefs concerning who god is, or what god is, if one doesn't already have the belief of 'god' that matches this configuration, they may not know how to configure such an idea. With the correct knowledge of who god is, this configuration presents itself naturally, and then one would just write the correlate words in english to describe the interactionary points, □

This occurs naturally
 
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