How Paul Contradicts Jesus on the Most Important Doctrine of Christianity

[Rational Agnostic]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

 

[Kenny]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

I think the problem you are facing is that there are three subjects on the table. That which is spoken to the Jews, that which is spoken to the Gentiles and that which is spoken to the Church, the Body of Christ.

John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Here He is speaking to all three and no works is declared to be a pre-requisite.

But feel free to believe what you want to believe. As an agnostic that you claim to be, it is amusing to me on how much time you spend on the subject of Christianity

 

[Twilight Hue]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

What's even stranger is Paul and Matthew 24:23.

 

[blü 2]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

The NT gives you at least five Jesuses to choose from, Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's Luke's and John's.

Choose the one that says what you want to hear.

Or assemble your own Jesus from bits of all five. That's what most folk do.

 

[leov]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Entering narrow fares being in heaven is not salvation, same with Paul : only pneumatic enters Pleroma. Non pneumatic enters Pleroma only as syzygy of a pneumatic, different levels of salvation no contradiction to Jesus. Entering Kingdom of heaven is the highest level of salvation for enlightened only.

 

[Windwalker]

The NT gives you at least five Jesuses to choose from, Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's Luke's and John's.

Choose the one that says what you want to hear.

Or assemble your own Jesus from bits of all five. That's what most folk do.

This is great. I had to smile because of the truth of this. It's very accurate. But I think to add a twist to this cocktail, are they choosing the belief, or is the belief choosing them? People gravitate to what resonates with them, if they can relate to it.

If they need to see legalistic Jesus, they'll find him there. If they need to see loving, compassionate world-centric Jesus, they'll find him there too. The NT is a collection of people's Jesuses, born in a culture in the throws of Roman occupation trying to create a world of their vision of truth in his name, in their parabolic histories of him.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

I think the difference is in sincerity. Anyone can SAY they believe in Jesus but only those who really mean it and are willing to follow God's laws will be saved. So Paul is saying those who are willing to follow Jesus will be saved and Jesus is saying those who simply say the words but do not mean them will not be saved. It is not just about saying words but being willing to follow the way Jesus wamts you to follow.

 

[Thief]

cutting to it.....the parables of the Carpenter are sufficient

 

[LightofTruth]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Ever heard of context?

 

[Ellen Brown]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Over time, I increasingly feel that perhaps Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God." may be the pivotal scripture in the Scripture? Perhaps all the other "stuff" amounts to rebellion by not accepting the simple message of God?

 

[siti]

Over time, I increasingly feel that perhaps Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God." may be the pivotal scripture in the Scripture? Perhaps all the other "stuff" amounts to rebellion by not accepting the simple message of God?

That and the parable of the sheep and the goats - Matthew 25:31-45 ... and James 2:20...

Nowadays, I find no place for 'belief' - but helping people remains an important part of life - an act of 'faith' - not in words but in humanity.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Consider this...how many professing Christianity don't believe Jesus "is the image of God" (2 Corinthians 4:4); rather, they believe he is God?

The Scripture you quoted, Matthew 7:21-23....how is it these ones saying "Lord,Lord" are doing "powerful works"? Even saying and thinking that they are "expelling demons"? Might the "god" mentioned in the Scripture above, 2 Cor.4:4, be deceptively providing that power?

You said Jesus talked about "works", you're right....mainly, love: it would identify his followers (John 13:35).
What, though, has been Christendom's reputation regarding war?

Protestant minister Harry Emerson Fosdick, in his "The Modern Use of the Bible", wrote: “Our Western history has been one war after another. We have bred men for war, trained men for war; we have glorified war; we have made warriors our heroes and even in our churches we have put the battle flags. . . . With one corner of our mouth we have praised the Prince of Peace and with the other we have glorified war. So well have we succeeded in blending Christ and carnage, the Gospel and organized slaughter, that recently a missionary in an Oriental country, after an address upon Christian goodwill, was taken aside by a native, who said, ‘You must know that the educated people of this country look upon Christianity as a warring, blood-spilling religion.' "

No wonder Jesus says, "Get away from me!"

 

[Enoch07]

Strange, isn't it?

No, the Lord knows which of us is sincere or not. Just because someone calls themselves Christian, does all the right things, doesn't guarantee anything. If the Lord sees that you were insincere and doing it out of selfish fear instead of selfless love then He may not allpw them to enter Heaven.

 

[siti]

No, the Lord knows which of us is sincere or not. Just because someone calls themselves Christian, does all the right things, doesn't guarantee anything. If the Lord sees that you were insincere and doing it out of selfish fear instead of selfless love then He may not allpw them to enter Heaven.

And suppose they are doing it because they just think its the right thing to do and have no belief in God at all? Could it be that the unbeliever might enter and the believer be rejected?

 

[Glaurung]

Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

Faith in Christ presupposes cooperation with God by a life lived in accordance with the moral law. Jesus warns those who assume that a nominal acceptance of Him alone is sufficient for salvation, it is not. Paul on the other hand is writing to a congregation already committed to the requirements of life befitting a Christian. Jew or Gentile, all who call upon God will be saved. There is no contradiction because the context of both statements are very different. Paul's point given the previous verse is that the New Covenant (unlike the Old) is not limited to any particular group of people.

Paul never denies the necessity of good works or a moral life. (That's a Protestant misreading). Paul denies the necessity of the Mosaic Law. Faith in Christ has replaced the "works of the law". That is, the ceremonial and judicial laws of the Old Covenant.

 

[calm]

Most Christians should probably call themselves "Paulians" since they side with Paul over Jesus on the question of how to get to heaven.

Observe that Paul states:

Romans 10:13: "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

However, Paul directly contradicts the guy that he claims is his savior, since Jesus says:

Matthew 7:21-23: "NOT EVERYONE who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Clearly in Matthew 7, Jesus is stating that many people will call on his name and perform actions in his name, and yet, they will not go to heaven. Yet the majority of Christians (especially Protestants) believe Paul over the guy they claim is their savior. Why do I, as an agnostic, care? Well, it's amusing to me to watch Christians ignore all of the verses where Jesus clearly teaches that good works are necessary to go to heaven. Just another example of the intellectual dishonesty of many Christians. Not only do they willfully ignore the overwhelming scientific evidence for evolution, they also willfully ignore the words of Jesus himself. Strange, isn't it?

You need to look at the bible in its entire context. If you do, you won't find any contradictions.

 

[Glaurung]

You need to look at the bible in its entire context. If you do, you won't find any contradictions.

Reading in context should be an obvious principle. If your method of reading the Bible is to take isolated, decontextualised verses from different books and juxtapose them together then of course you will find "contradictions".

Anyway, to the OP. The doctrine that Christians do not need to do anything whatsoever to merit their salvation (even continue in habitual sin) so long as they believe is to my knowledge exclusive to a very particular kind of Protestant theology. The majority of Christians do not read Paul in that way.

 

[Kenny]

The NT gives you at least five Jesuses to choose from, Paul's, Mark's, Matthew's Luke's and John's.

Choose the one that says what you want to hear.

Or assemble your own Jesus from bits of all five. That's what most folk do.

That's true. Like finding out who I am by looking at me as dad, son, brother, husband, and friend.

 

[blü 2]

That's true. Like finding out who I am by looking at me as dad, son, brother, husband, and friend.

As disparate as Paul's demiurge, Mark's ordinary Jew adopted by God at his baptism, Matthew's and Luke's son of God by divine insemination, John's heavenly-being envoy. But at least they have in common that none of them is God.

 

[Kenny]

As disparate as Paul's demiurge, Mark's ordinary Jew adopted by God at his baptism, Matthew's and Luke's son of God by divine insemination, John's heavenly-being envoy. But at least they have in common that none of them is God.

As per blu and you conveniently omit John... but hardly a complete dossier of who Jesus is...

If you ask my son, I am dad
My wife, I am husband
My coworker, I am friend
My dad, I am son


But I am still Ken and Jesus is still... The Word God