The Bible and an over active imagination!

[Audie]

Substance do not mean truth

'there is no substance that Harry Potter books exist' is obviously wrong

Even a false argument has substance

As long as you stick to meaningless
statements you can never be obviously wrong.

 

[Audie]

If Jesus is still alive why did he disappear up to heaven, that wasn't very clever of him, if he expected people to be his followers?

The clever thing would have been to go back to
Pilate and ask if he'd like to try it again.

 

[JJ50]

...

You sound more like an atheist, not agnostic.

That being said, the 'morality argument' against my beliefs would seem to be self refuting.

One cannot be absolutely sure no god of any sort exists somewhere. However, all the ones followed by humans appear to be their own creations as they are less than credible like the Biblical deity.

 

[Darkforbid]

As long as you stick to meaningless
statements you can never be obviously wrong.

No you disprove that

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

How is a diversity of views wrong

True "diversity of views" isn't wrong. What's awry in adherence to something like The Bible is that a person isn't entirely utilizing their own moral/situational viewpoints to come to their position(s). The starting point is "The Bible" and so the diversity of views you're going to get is decidedly cut down by large margins - and you're definitely not always going to get "what the people think." You're going to get:

• "What The Bible thinks"
• "What I've retro-fitted my views to in order to comport with The Bible"
• "What I think, but can only justify using various ambiguous passages in The Bible, and haven't really thought about otherwise."

This is all counter-productive to what should be an organic and more fluid shaping of our moral landscape as a society. We don't get "what is best" for the people at large... we get from a lot of people what "The Bible" (sort of) prescribes is best - based on 2,000+ year old reasoning, plus whatever concessions the person is willing to make so that they can get versions of their views across while still feeling like "A Good Christian."

 

[susanblange]

Yet, as the Bible predicted, Israel is a nation again and never has a nation of people been dispersed and maintained customs and language.

But you are right Revelation, particularly, is difficult to decipher. But Jesus IS coming back!

Jesus is coming back but he's been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. Isaiah 14:12. His new name is William Alan Treotschel. Revelation 3:12. This time, he will die by bursting into flames. Ezekiel 28:18-19.

 

[Audie]

No you disprove that

Now, here you did all the pioneering work,
showed us all what a truly irrelevant and
meaningless post is all about, and then
you want to turn about and say all
your work is disproved?

 

[Audie]

True "diversity of views" isn't wrong. What's awry in adherence to something like The Bible is that a person isn't entirely utilizing their own moral/situational viewpoints to come to their position(s). The starting point is "The Bible" and so the diversity of views you're going to get is decidedly cut down by large margins - and you're definitely not always going to get "what the people think." You're going to get:

• "What The Bible thinks"
• "What I've retro-fitted my views to in order to comport with The Bible"
• "What I think, but can only justify using various ambiguous passages in The Bible, and haven't really thought about otherwise."

This is all counter-productive to what should be an organic and more fluid shaping of our moral landscape as a society. We don't get "what is best" for the people at large... we get from a lot of people what "The Bible" (sort of) prescribes is best - based on 2,000+ year old reasoning, plus whatever concessions the person is willing to make so that they can get versions of their views across while still feeling like "A Good Christian."

Of course diversity of views is not "wrong",
and nobody remotely suggested it is.
I dont know if it is an ESL problem, or just a penchant
for the inapt.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Yep, and the agenda for homosexuals is to either kick it to the curb or twist the scriptures so that they approve of, rather than condemn, homosexual liaisons



Those who have studied the Bible understand that the end won't come until various signs are first seen. Signs such as the 3rd Jewish Temple being built, the appearance of the antichrist, and the Gospel being preached unto the whole world. Those haven't happened yet. You knew all this before you wrote your 'dumb end timer's' rant above, right?



The scriptures show what God is thinking and what he approves or disapproves of in countless instances.



Here's help for the confused:

 

[Wandering Monk]

Because He is alive and because Israel is a country and because the statistical probabilities that Jesus fulfilled just 8 of more than 2 dozen prophetic declaration is so astronomically impossible as to dictate there is a higher power than your opinion.

All this prophecy is only understood retrospectively and ONLY by insisting that these passages are about Jesus and no one else according to personal interpretation.

 

[rrobs]

The Bible can be interpreted in so many ways to suit a person's take on their particular brand of faith. Years ago when I was young I heard it was predicted in that book the UK would never join the EU, WHOOPS they got that wrong.

The end timers have been predicting the end is nigh since Jesus died, no doubt they will be doing so 2000 years hence if religion is still on some folk's agender.

Some people claim to know exactly what god is thinking, strangely enough, its thoughts are their thoughts and they are in total agreement! My late mother-in-law knew exactly what god thought on every topic, particularly which TV programmes to watch and the clothes it deemed suitable to wear.

The book of Revelation, in particular, is grist to the mill of those whose vivid imaginations know no bounds.

You are absolutely right. But does it have to be that way?

I don't think there is much interpretation required to understand your post. It's pretty straight forward, uses simple grammar, and not too many big words. I think it fair to say that you meant what you said and said what your meant.

I would have to say this reply is the same way. I'm not sure how it could be construed in any other way than that I'm simply saying your post and my reply don't need to be interpreted all. Both simply mean what they say.

Could it be that we place too much emphasis on the whole idea that the Bible needs to be interpreted at all? I think the experts say it's written to an 8th grade level, so it can't be that hard to understand.

I think the problem comes when someone has a preconceived idea, e.g. Jesus is God, and then they have to make the scriptures say that whether it actually does or doesn't say that. That's when things can get creative.

 

[Audie]

You are absolutely right. But does it have to be that way?

I don't think there is much interpretation required to understand your post. It's pretty straight forward, uses simple grammar, and not too many big words. I think it fair to say that you meant what you said and said what your meant.

I would have to say this reply is the same way. I'm not sure how it could be construed in any other way than that I'm simply saying your post and my reply don't need to be interpreted all. Both simply mean what they say.

Could it be that we place too much emphasis on the whole idea that the Bible needs to be interpreted at all? I think the experts say it's written to an 8th grade level, so it can't be that hard to understand.

I think the problem comes when someone has a preconceived idea, e.g. Jesus is God, and then they have to make the scriptures say that whether it actually does or doesn't say that. That's when things can get creative.

Trouble is, if it actually means what it says...allowing
for a tinge of poesy like that jesus is a door... then
the whole thing is really a lot of fluffed up bs.

Which conclusion many of us reached long ago anyhow.

 

[rrobs]

Trouble is, if it actually means what it says...allowing
for a tinge of poesy like that jesus is a door... then
the whole thing is really a lot of fluffed up bs.

Which conclusion many of us reached long ago anyhow.

What you called poesy is actually called figures of speech. We use figures of speech to draw attention to some point or another, they emphasize a point the writer is trying to make. I think it fair to say that whenever something that is written or spoken can not be taken literally it is a figure of speech. I could say, "the ground is dry", or if I really wanted to make a point as to just how dry it is, I might say, "the ground is thirsty." Figures of speech are a scholarly study in themselves. The scriptures make liberal use of them, so it helps to have some understanding of them. There are over 200 different types of figures of speech used in the scriptures.

Since you came to the conclusion that the Bible is really a lot of fluffed up bs, I assume you've spent a fair amount of time studying it. I think you may have told me that at some point in our past discussions. I mentioned per-conceived ideas as being an impediment to getting a clear understanding. Would you mind my asking you if you began those studies with an open mind, not knowing anything about the scriptures, or did you already know they were bs. I know that to be the case for many people. It always amazes me just how much many people know about the Bible without having actually read it. My wife is a perfect example of that. She readily admits to it. Not that you are like that, I'm just asking.

Take care

 

[Brickjectivity]

The Bible can be interpreted in so many ways to suit a person's take on their particular brand of faith. Years ago when I was young I heard it was predicted in that book the UK would never join the EU, WHOOPS they got that wrong.

People say it means different things, but its not intended to be interpreted in such widely diverse ways. Is written to be followed, but that is not what we use it for. Often the context is missing, and without context meaning can be different things. Some people substitute in life experience, and that helps. Some are sleuths. Some are conniving manipulators who just want an easy life at the expense of others if necessary.

The end timers have been predicting the end is nigh since Jesus died, no doubt they will be doing so 2000 years hence if religion is still on some folk's agender.

Some people claim to know exactly what god is thinking, strangely enough, its thoughts are their thoughts and they are in total agreement! My late mother-in-law knew exactly what god thought on every topic, particularly which TV programmes to watch and the clothes it deemed suitable to wear.

The book of Revelation, in particular, is grist to the mill of those whose vivid imaginations know no bounds.

In my experience end times interpretations are started for malicious reasons. If you can ever find who originates them, I think you'll find malicious intentions.

 

[Kenny]

All this prophecy is only understood retrospectively and ONLY by insisting that these passages are about Jesus and no one else according to personal interpretation.

Not really - the were known to be prophetic by the Jewish sages before it happened

 

[Wandering Monk]

Not really - the were known to be prophetic by the Jewish sages before it happened

I would need a source for this assertion. They would need to be sages who lived before Jesus.

 

[danieldemol]

Therefore, too conclude.
Anyone who maake such false predictions, are not speaking in the Name of God.
Such a person should actually be executed, and you should not be scared of them.

It is a sign of your moral degradation that you think a person should be executed for their beliefs under any circumstance

 

[Trailblazer]

Here's help for the confused:

Everyone interprets the Book of Revelation differently. This book gives a Baha'i interpretation:
Apocalypse Secrets: Baha'i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation

First and foremost, the four Baha’i Primary-Figures play Revelation’s main roles interpretively. Baha’u’llah plays most, the Bab several, and ‘Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi some. Moreover, their Writings interpret symbols in Revelation, or ones specific to it, along with many of its verses. Baha’u’llah and ‘Abdu’l-Baha read Revelation in the Van Dyck Arabic Bible, and Shoghi Effendi read it in the King James English Bible.

Overall, Baha’i Writings interpret some or all of 64% (258 of 404) of the verses of Revelation. Adding in verses containing John’s internal interpretations raises the total to 72% (291 of 404) of the verses of Revelation. Since each verse may be interpreted a little or a lot, verse-counting is a crude measure of interpretation but is better than none.

 

[SA Huguenot]

If Jesus is still alive why did he disappear up to heaven, that wasn't very clever of him, if he expected people to be his followers?

Your question actually demonstrate what Atheism is all about.

God walked with Adam and Eve in the garden if Eden.
yet, They listened to an angel of light who told them they can be just like God if they eat the fruit of knowledge of good and evil.
God took Israel out of Egypt, destroyed the Egyptian armies in front of them with mirracles,
yet they worshipped other gods.
God's Holy Glory lived in the Temple, yet the priests became corrupt and worshipped money, and Israel turned to Baal worship.
God came down to mankind to live as a mere human,
Yet thy killed him.
He rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven,
Yet they persecuted the witnesses and treid to destroy the recording of His life on Earth.

now, I have the feeling that if there were cam corders in 33Ad, and everything he did was recorded for us to see,
we would still question this video.
Now, I know that even if Jesus would appear to us, and would do what he did 2 000 years ago, the atheist would still try to disprove Him.

This is why God now communicates and have a relationship with the individual who listens to Him when He knocks.
Guys, the atheist will never know God, if they dont allow Him in their life,
they will discard any notion of Him.

I on the other hand,
I dont believe in God at all!
I know Him!

 

[SA Huguenot]

It is a sign of your moral degradation that you think a person should be executed for their beliefs under any circumstance

Nope,
But if he pretends to be speaking as a prophet of God, and he lies, I think the God of the Universe is correct to have him executed.
Unfortunately today we do not have a living prophet through which God speaks, therefore we should adhere to Jesus and know that God will reacon with these false prophets Himself.
What I showed you is the recipy to determine if someone is telling you lies under the cloak of God say so.