REGARDING LUKE 24: 36 from a non Jehovah`s Witness : And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit. And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
@Frank Goad :
I JUST notice your O.P. in THIS thread refers to THREE scriptures instead of only Acts 23.
It’s 2:41 a.m. but I thought I would take time to comment on Luke 23:36-39. (I just got up for a glass of water so I will discuss your last scripture later). Again, HISTORICAL Context has to provide some background to this scripture rather than any modern dogma. You will have to consider what was taking place INSIDE the ancient context for the Jewish Apostles. The Ancient Jews and Early Christians in the earliest period were speaking from their belief that spirits animated the body and the spirits of mankind were separate from the bodies they animated. However, the early judeo-Christian belief was that a spirit had a shape and looked liked a body (as opposed to say, a nebulous "cloud").
For example, the Jewish Zohar explains : “
At the time that the Holy One, be blessed, was about to create the world, he decided to fashion all the spirits which would in due course be dealt out to the children of men, and each spirit was formed into the exact outline of the body she was destined to tenant. Scrutinizing each, he saw that among them some would fall into evil ways in the world.” The Zohar – (The Destiny of the Soul)
Technically, the word "Soul" referred to a living person, a body AND a spirit. Just like the simple statement in the gospel of Phillip indicates : “
The soul of Adam came into being by means of a breath, which is a synonym for spirit. “ (Often "spirit" is rendered "soul" depending upon the translator and source document).
The Christian texts agree with the Jewish Texts on this point that the spirit of a person was believed to LOOK like the persons body.
“For just as a potter knows the pot, how much it holds, and brings clay for it accordingly, so also the Lord forms the body in correspondence to the spirit, and instills the spirit corresponding to the power of the body. And from one to the other there is no discrepancy, not so much as a third of a hair,… And just as the potter knows the use of each vessel and to what it is suited, so also the Lord knows the body to what extent it will persist in goodness, and when it will be dominated by evil…” (Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs - Napthali 2:2-5;
The Jewish rechabites discuss the orthodox belief about what happened when one of their brethren died :
“9 And then the spirit of our blessed brother leaves the body in which it had settled; and with joy far removed from mourning it approaches and comes to the holy angels and ascends up to God with joy. 10 But we with one accord see the spirit when it leaves the body clearly and plainly; the appearance of the spirit when it leaves the body is the likeness of a glorious light, and formed and imprinted in the likeness and type of the body, and it is spiritually flying. History of the Rechabites 15:9-10; The context of such early texts represents the Jewish belief that the spirit resembles the body it inhabits.
Your Methodist belief regarding Ecclesiates is actually similar to the Jewish belief, thus it was said :
"Therefore, fear not death. For that which is from me, that is the spirit, departs for heaven. That which is from the earth, that is the body, departs for the earth from which it was taken.” The Greek Apocalypse of Ezra 6:26 & 7:1-4;
This is the Jewish context of biblical Ecclesiates 12 :6-7 where we are told to remember God before our death and the body returns to the ground and the spirit returns to God from which it came.
“Remember him--before the silver cord is severed, and the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, and the wheel broken at the well, and the dust (body) returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. (Eccl 12:6-7)
Jewish Zohar similarly, speaks of the spirit which leaves this world but is preserved as it awaits ultimate resurrection. “
And when such a spirit departs from this world, pure, bright, unblemished, the Holy One, be blessed, daily causes her to shine with a host of radiances and proclaims concerning him: ‘ Here is the spirit of my son, such and such: let him be preserved for the body from which he has departed.’ Zohar (The Destiny of the Soul)
The Jewish Talmudic teachings about judgment of the person discuss ultimate judgment inside this early belief that the person consisted of both a BODY and a SPIRIT and that neither will be judged separately. For example the Babylonian Talmud explains the Apocryphon of Ezekiel (Frag one, ch2) point on this subject by pointing out :
“The body says, ‘The spirit sinned, for from the day it separated from me, behold, I have been lying like a silent stone in the grave.’ Also the spirit can say, ‘The body sinned, for from the day I separated from it, behold I have been flying in the air like a bird”
Ultimately in the resurrection he will judge both spirit and body as a single unit as they rejoin in a resurrection, and the spirit is recalled from heaven and the dead body is recalled from the earth. Thus it says :
“He will call to the heavens from above’ – this to the spirit. ‘And the earth so he might judge his people’ –this to the body.” (Apocryphon of Ezekiel Frag one, ch2 - explanation from the Babylonia Talmud, Sanhedrin 91a,b; )
The context of what is happening to the spirit in this world seems, partly for the spirit of mankind to learn at a basic level regarding how to interact with both batter and with each other. We are to take care of the spirit within us, we are to educate it, improve upon it, learn higher levels of social and moral behaviors. This it was said :
“The Torah, counsel of the entire world, saw this and cried to mankind : “Behold, see how the Holy One, be blessed, takes pity on you! Without cost, he has sent to you his costly pearl, that you may use it in this world and it is the sacred spirit (we are given)” The Zohar
This context of being given a body and learning to overcome it’s tendencies is the lesson underlying the various texts which refer to this mortal life as a tutoring experience, For example, speaking of spirits of mankind this life is described as a “school”.
“… the spirit of the female and the spirit of the male, are hence preeminent above all the heavenly hosts and camps. It may be wondered, if they are thus preeminent on both sides, why do they descend to this world only to be taken thence at some future time? “This may be explained by way of a simile: A king has a son whom he sends to a village to be educated until he shall have been initiated into the ways of the palace. When the king is informed that his son is now come to maturity, the king, out of his love, sends the matron his mother to bring him back into the palace, and there the king rejoices with him every day. In this wise, the Holy One, be blessed, possessed a son from the matron, that is, the supernal holy soul. He despatched it to a village, that is, to this world, to be raised in it, and initiated into the ways of the King’s palace. Informed that his son was now come to maturity, and should be returned to the palace, the King, out of love, sent the matron for him to bring him into the palace. …. “If the righteous were only aware of this, they would be filled with joy when their time comes to leave this world. For does it not honor them greatly that the matron comes down on their account, to take them into the King’s palace, where the King may every day rejoice in them?....And so, happy are the righteous and in the world to come, for on them the upper and lower beings are based. Hence it stands written : ‘The righteous is the foundation of the world’ [Prov. 10:25].” Jewish ZOHAR (A SEAL UPON YOUR HEART)
The base point here is that we must look at the scriptures NOT through OUR own theology and OUR own biases, but rather through the historical theology that existed in the religion and beliefs of the ancient apostles if we are to understand THEIR statements and THEIR beliefs regarding the spirits of mankind and their initial BELIEF that they had seen a spirit of a person.
In any case, good luck coming to your own decisions about what such verses mean. I am tired and will discuss your last scripture you mentioned tomorrow. I am off to bed.
Clear
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