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God and Evolution

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
It depends little on what is meant with evolution. If it means all species have evolved from single species, I don’t believe it, because if it would be true, it could be seen in nature easily. We don’t see it in nature, therefore I don’t believe it.
Our DNA is almost identical to a tree.. Yeah, its the same.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
What's a stereotype is that the very religious Christians (at least) reject evolution. The ordinary people may report they believe in God, but their belief is nothing compared to the belief of the actually religious and I think that definitely affects their belief/conviction about evolution. Because they don't even care what the scripture says. So for them there is no controversy, there is no problem.
I'm getting mixed signals with the above, so maybe you can clarify this as your first sentence doesn't seem to match your conclusion.

Also, a survey by Pew Polls found that most Christian and Jewish theologians do accept the ToE as long as it is understood that God was behind it all. Indeed, as it is mostly fundamentalist Protestants and JW's who are opposed to the ToE.

I was brought up in one of those churches, btw.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Most creationists I know believe in evolution, what an evolution scientist named micro evolution. He also coined the term macro evolution.

Simply put, micro evolution postulates the environmental and genetic driven adaption of an organism to a certain point, and not beyond.

That is not the scientific view of micro-evolution. Micro-evolution would be just evolution on a small scale. Among Creationists it is evolution only within similar kinds.

Macro evolution, as displayed in the somewhat bogus chart that hung in my science classroom in jr. high, is not accepted. That is, the chain of evolution from a simple organism through all types of evolved creatures to the animals, humans, and plants of today. The evidence is lacking.

A chart on the wall is not the science of evolution, which has been falsified beyond any reasonable doubt, and continues to increase the evidence all the time. Fundamentalist Creationists have not presented a viable alternative based on science.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Not entirely true. You're taking the word of the scientists for it aren't you? Borrowing their judgment. You depend on them and their word entirely. I call that a kind of faith.

Yes, I knee every night and recite the Periodic table of elements.

Ciao

- viole
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Oh you mean the Op (or the Quran in your opinion?) only exhibits the physical history of the earth?

No, the Islamic world consistently believes in the scientific view of an ancient earth based on geologic evidence. The exhibit did not address the issue of evolution. The diversity of views of Muslims toward evolution is not as consistent as it is for the physical history of the earth.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
You forgot to answer my question.

Do you agree that we and pigs share a common ancestor?

Ciao

- viole
didn't forget, trying to ignore... yes trees, pigs, horses, seaweed, elephants, kangaroos, palm trees, ducks, turtles, chickens..
Since you are stuck on pigs I imagine your gonna say something clever about not eating pork or something.. just because I can't eat it doesn't mean we are not related.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
You forgot to answer my question.

Do you agree that we and pigs share a common ancestor?

Ciao


- viole

Sayeth Allah: Verily, verily, I do commadeth unto thee,
dodge, duck, and squirmeth away from, spray equivocation
at, ALL such demon driven trick questions as may be flang
at ya by them evil bacon -chompin' skraelings!!




I heard about that.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It seems to be a popular trend that people who believe in God do not believe in evolution. And people who believe in evolution do not believe in God.

Is it? Because last time I checked, a majority of theists, christians in particular, have no problem with biological evolution. The catholic church's official position is that evolution occured. That alone supposedly accounts for more then a billion christians.

It is true that a disturbingly high number of americans seem to be biology deniers... but that hardly accounts for a majority worldwide.

Having said that, a LOT of biologists, evolutionary biologists, molecular biologists, geneticists, etc are actually theists.


So it seems to me that your opening statement isn't really accurate.

So if science proves we are made up of stardust and God says the same thing why do so many think otherwise?

I'm sure you can "interprete" your sacred texts in such a way so that you can marry them with modern scientific views, but let's not pretend as if your sacred texts tell the same story as modern science, because it really doesn't.

There's nothing in the quran which suggests that the first generations of stars went supernove and thereby created the heavier elements which our current bodies are made up of, billions of years later. Nothing at all.

Everything science has discovered about existence dating back to the big bang is also verifiable in the Quran.

Yet curiously, such always only seems to be the case after science comes up with things. Never before.

You might also want to look up islamic acceptance of mainstream biology in islamic nations in the middle east. You say that the Quran agrees with modern science, and that modern science is even verifiable in the Quran. Yet a great number of muslims, in some countries an insane majority, heavily disagrees with you on that and in fact claims the exact opposite.

I'm not trying to revert everyone to Islam here.. Just want to know if you believe in one and not the other then just your reason behind it.

It's all about dogmatism / fundamentalism.
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
So you think science does proof? Being snarky about your ignorance
just makes one look more ludicrous.

Ultimate judge?
Cute, considering the stand that "god / alkah" believers take on
how they know about "god" and its infalluble word.

A little psych 101 and you could pick up on concepypts
liie projection, and avoid exposing your flaws by "seeing"
them in others.

A yway to the substance of my post that you dodged-

I did not think you had the capacity to recognize the slightest
error, however obvious. None of you goddies ever can.

Maybe "revert" was the word you meant!

you're the judge.. youd know.. thanks for your time. some arrogant obnoxious know it all I do not have time for. thanks.. IGNORE
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
At the King Abdulazizz Center for Science and Technology they have some very sophisticated exhibits of geological changes in the Arabian Peninsula over the past 30 million years or so. KAUCST is pretty cool as universities go and they are geared towards petroleum and chemistry as well as hy-solar technology.

Next to each exhibit they have a small brass plaque with a creation verse from the Koran. It doesn't seem to be a problem for them.

Meanwhile, Islamic faith schools in London are teaching children that evolution is false.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It seems to be a popular trend that people who believe in God do not believe in evolution. And people who believe in evolution do not believe in God.

Obviously, there's exceptions because I am one. I believe in God and evolution. As a Muslim who believes the Quran to be true there are several scripture to support this.

It also says we come from the clay of the Earth just as Christians and Jews believe.

So if science proves we are made up of stardust and God says the same thing why do so many think otherwise?

Everything science has discovered about existence dating back to the big bang is also verifiable in the Quran.

I'm not trying to revert everyone to Islam here.. Just want to know if you believe in one and not the other then just your reason behind it.

As a Baha'i I see that both Humanity and Faith follow a progressive evolutionary process.

Thus I see humaity is still evolving and that faith is still evolving.

Regards Tony
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Not entirely true. You're taking the word of the scientists for it aren't you? Borrowing their judgment.

No. He's taking the work of scientists for it.
The opinions of scientists are irrelevant.

It's about the actual evidence.

You depend on them and their word entirely. I call that a kind of faith.

No.

Science is very results based. The scientific methodology is basically a BS filter.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Is it? Because last time I checked, a majority of theists, christians in particular, have no problem with biological evolution. The catholic church's official position is that evolution occured. That alone supposedly accounts for more then a billion christians.

It is true that a disturbingly high number of americans seem to be biology deniers... but that hardly accounts for a majority worldwide.

Having said that, a LOT of biologists, evolutionary biologists, molecular biologists, geneticists, etc are actually theists.


So it seems to me that your opening statement isn't really accurate.



I'm sure you can "interprete" your sacred texts in such a way so that you can marry them with modern scientific views, but let's not pretend as if your sacred texts tell the same story as modern science, because it really doesn't.

There's nothing in the quran which suggests that the first generations of stars went supernove and thereby created the heavier elements which our current bodies are made up of, billions of years later. Nothing at all.



Yet curiously, such always only seems to be the case after science comes up with things. Never before.

You might also want to look up islamic acceptance of mainstream biology in islamic nations in the middle east. You say that the Quran agrees with modern science, and that modern science is even verifiable in the Quran. Yet a great number of muslims, in some countries an insane majority, heavily disagrees with you on that and in fact claims the exact opposite.

................

You get a winner for saying what I said but
saying it better with fewer words.

But like with me you may get only the
Ultimate Authority, not a gold medal. :(
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
It seems to be a popular trend that people who believe in God do not believe in evolution. And people who believe in evolution do not believe in God.
I'm not trying to revert everyone to Islam here.. Just want to know if you believe in one and not the other then just your reason behind it.
In Hinduism God and evolution go perfect together. And my Master broadened it even more "choose whatever path you feel best with and go for it"
God will not judge you. Just be happy, and thereby you make others happy, so that all will be happy ... aka God will be happy (as a fugure of speech)
Even from age 10 this is what what I believed. Finding my Master who was teaching exactly the same, felt like finally coming home

I like that "not trying to revert everyone to Islam" ... same here ... just sharing my ideas, not debating. Even urging others to stick to their own faith
 
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