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God and Evolution

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
Many Muslims do not accept the evolution of life includes the evolution of humanity, and consider Genesis as in one way or another to describe the origins of humans.

Form:Islamic views on evolution - Wikipedia

"Islamic views on evolution are diverse, ranging from theistic evolution to Old Earth creationism.[1] Some Muslims around the world believe "humans and other living things have evolved over time," yet some others believe they have "always existed in present form."[2]Muslim thinkers have proposed and accepted elements of the theory of evolution, some holding the belief of the supremacy of God in the process. Usaama al-Azami suggested that both narratives of creation and of evolution, as understood by modern science, may be believed by modern Muslims as addressing two different kinds of truth, the revealed and the empirical.[3] Muneer Al-Ali argues that faith and science can be integrated and complement each other."

I do not consider the Quran gives consistent guidance on the science of evolution, and this results in a diverse difference in the interpretation of the Quran.

That is correct.. most Muslims do not, however, I do. Your Quran consideration is clearly different than mine. To each their own.
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
I'm a Christian and I am convinced that evolution takes place. I see God's work as no less marvelous if He created the universe over a period of 7 days or a few billion years. I can't conceive of a universe as grand as ours taking place without some direction of some sort, though, so I firmly believe God is at the helm.
Very cool! Thanks for the response.
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
People with any sense know your dichotomy isnt
so. Of course not all christians are anti science.

No need to set up your argument with an S-man.

The bible does NOT say "stardust". It says
"dust". It might be vaguely impressive if it
said "star", but that would just be poesy,
not deep wisdom.

And what is "dust"? Powdered aluminum?
Dust curls from under bed? May as well
call it "stuff". That would be better, coz it at least
could include water, our main ingredient!

Lots of native myths have the great spirit make
people from clay. It is false anyway, people
were not just "made".

MOREOVER, "science proves" is ignorant
nonsense. Science never proves anything,
you've a most fundamental
misunderstanding there!

"Everything sience has discovered...is verifiable
in the koran".

This claim in its many forms is about too
silly for words.

One thing you would eventually have to
learn if you were to succeed in a study
of science is the concept / practice of
objectivity.

The easiest person to fool is yourself,
and you have sure succeeded.

You are seeing the same thing in your
koran that astrologers see in the stars
or fans of Nostradamus see in his
"prophecy". Namely, they take the
thinnest thread of imaginary connections
and force-fit meanings to get the conclusion
they want.

Perhaps you mean "convert" rather than
"revert"? :D

No worries on that. As for the rest of your
post-

Try again with something a little more
intellectualer?

It's such an honor to meet the ultimate judge on whats nonsense and true. Get over yourself...
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
So, you agree that humans and pigs share a common ancestor.
Right?

You also asked if I believe in one and not the other. i do not believe in neither. I don’t believe in God because i know there is none, and I don’t believe in evolution because I do not need to. Believe is left for things without evidence, and it is therefore not applicable to evolution.

Ciao

- viole
Then this prob wasn't directed to you.. thanks though.
 

Wasp

Active Member
So, you agree that humans and pigs share a common ancestor.
Right?

You also asked if I believe in one and not the other. i do not believe in neither. I don’t believe in God because i know there is none, and I don’t believe in evolution because I do not need to. Believe is left for things without evidence, and it is therefore not applicable to evolution.

Ciao

- viole
Not entirely true. You're taking the word of the scientists for it aren't you? Borrowing their judgment. You depend on them and their word entirely. I call that a kind of faith.
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
Most creationists I know believe in evolution, what an evolution scientist named micro evolution. He also coined the term macro evolution.

Simply put, micro evolution postulates the environmental and genetic driven adaption of an organism to a certain point, and not beyond.

Macro evolution, as displayed in the somewhat bogus chart that hung in my science classroom in jr. high, is not accepted. That is, the chain of evolution from a simple organism through all types of evolved creatures to the animals, humans, and plants of today. The evidence is lacking.
So a poodle can come from a wolf but a man cant come from a monkey... yeah thats way different.. smh
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
I view evolution as God creating. What is problematic however is to take one's reading of their scriptures and try to force fit vague verses into statements that are scientific. If one hinges their faith on their scriptures being magically scientific somehow when they were written in ancient times, one places their faith in God on very thin strings. It is better to read those verses in the context of the times they were written, which was not to a modern context with scientific knowledge. That's a house of cards that one card that doesn't fit, takes down the entire faith structure of God.


It is vastly more probable to understand they were not thinking in terms of carbon and various other minerals. They were very much imagining dust that was literally spit into by God, fashioned into figurines, and magically given the breath of life direct from God. And that's fine. Why should they think in terms of supernova created star dust out of which planets and the evolution of life on that. No way they would have known that. And it should not be important to anyone today if they had not. Do you think otherwise?


Because ancient man did not know the facts of modern science. That's not what they were saying. That's known as reading backwards into an ancient time a modern understanding. That does not work.


Only if one bends and twists the meanings to make them fit. Christians do that with their scriptures too. It's not valid in either case.


I've never been a Muslim, so I could not "revert" to being one. :)
ahh... ok
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
Don't know why it seems that way because it certainly isn't true.


FT_19.02.11_darwinDay420px.png


.
Im sure those statistics are dead on true....
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
First of all, the surveys that I have seen indicates that most American do accept the ToE and believe in God but that there's a difference when one considers education, party affiliation, and which denomination/branch one identifies with.

As for myself, I accept the ToE, but how I view God is rather unorthodox [see "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts for clarification].
I was referring to the world not just USA.. and thanks for the response.
 

Wasp

Active Member
First of all, the surveys that I have seen indicates that most American do accept the ToE and believe in God but that there's a difference when one considers education, party affiliation, and which denomination/branch one identifies with.
What's a stereotype is that the very religious Christians (at least) reject evolution. The ordinary people may report they believe in God, but their belief is nothing compared to the belief of the actually religious and I think that definitely affects their belief/conviction about evolution. Because they don't even care what the scripture says. So for them there is no controversy, there is no problem.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That is correct.. most Muslims do not, however, I do. Your Quran consideration is clearly different than mine. To each their own.

What you believe is OK.

Actually not my consideration of the Quran. I was only presenting the current Islamic diverse view of evolution based on the guidance from the Quran. The problem of inadequate guidance from the Quran if a matter of factual failure to provide uniform guidance reflected in the beliefs of the Muslims.
 

Wasp

Active Member
What you believe is OK.

Actually not my consideration of the Quran. I was only presenting the current Islamic diverse view of evolution based on the guidance from the Quran. The problem of inadequate guidance from the Quran if a matter of factual failure to provide uniform guidance reflected in the beliefs of the Muslims.
Are there Muslims who don't believe in evolution without the ape part? I know a lot of them have difficulties with that but the other stuff..That's in the Quran.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Not entirely true. You're taking the word of the scientists for it aren't you? Borrowing their judgment. You depend on them and their word entirely. I call that a kind of faith.
Oh dear, yet another who plays that stupid equivocation game with
faith, as if provisional acceptance of a huge body of consistent data
is no different from faith /belief in some undetectable master of the
universe who wants women to cover their hair, and hates pigs.

But cool, you have betrayed your fake "belief" in evolution for
what it is.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
It seems to be a popular trend that people who believe in God do not believe in evolution. And people who believe in evolution do not believe in God...... Just want to know if you believe in one and not the other then just your reason behind it.

It depends little on what is meant with evolution. If it means all species have evolved from single species, I don’t believe it, because if it would be true, it could be seen in nature easily. We don’t see it in nature, therefore I don’t believe it.
 

Vaziri

Islamic Philosopher
What you believe is OK.

Actually not my consideration of the Quran. I was only presenting the current Islamic diverse view of evolution based on the guidance from the Quran. The problem of inadequate guidance from the Quran if a matter of factual failure to provide uniform guidance reflected in the beliefs of the Muslims.
Yes.. that is why I stated I was the exception in the OP and went on to stress most people don't believe in both. I covered that already but ok. There is always Sunni, Sufi, etc.. different types of Muslim beliefs as a whole. I have spoke with some Muslims who agree with me and others who think its haram. Regardless, I have read Quran everyday for over 10 years and developed my own personal connection with God. I have enough proof for my sake that goes along with evolution. So unless you have done the same I dont really care what you tell me some Muslim website says...
 

Wasp

Active Member
It depends little on what is meant with evolution. If it means all species have evolved from single species, I don’t believe it, because if it would be true, it could be seen in nature easily. We don’t see it in nature, therefore I don’t believe it.
How would it be seen?
 
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