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For Christians Only: The Big Picture

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Statements of fact are not snide jabs and cheap shots.
I haven't seen any statements of fact. That would be something new from the poster concerned.

Got any statements of fact that you'd like to offer? Or are snide jabs and cheap shots what you do too? Takes one to know one I guess. :D

But you are more of an expert on the subject than I ever will be.
And again.....isn't that called being a hypocrite? :shrug:
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
According to the book of Genesis, at the close of each creative day = period of universal activity, the observer says that he was pleased with what he saw, then came the evening which preceded the next creative day, but on the sixth creative day, after the observer had witnessed the Logos become all the great beasts of the earth, which included the dinosaurs, it is written that the observer was pleased with what he saw, but evening does not follow immediately.

Adam is created all alone, on the seventh day, on a barren earth, not by “EL the creator God, but by “Jahel,” who is “Jah=Lord to the glory of EL the creator.” and although the seeds of the plants were still in the scorched barren earth, no rain had fallen, etc, etc, and is later cast down to te earth of the sixth day..

It's written in the ancient scriptures, that the feet of God's son were on earth but his head (The evolving Mind) was in paradise, this was before the creation of mankind, but knowing the animal spirit of the lower place would be the destruction of his son who was evolving in paradise, God put his son (The spiritual Godhead of the creation) into a deep sleep.

This was done by bringing all terrestrial life on earth to a finish by a cataclysmic comet collision, and the last word from his forming son as he watched the earthly body from which he was being formed, brought to its finish, was “Mother.” The Lord then formed out of clay, an image of himself and commanded all the living spiritual godheads of the earthly species, which had been destroyed, to bow before his image, this was the division of all the spirits, the sheep and the goats, which had been gathered into the glorious heavenly simulacrum, the brilliant light body of God’s evolving heavenly Son, the pre-human Adam.

The Kabbala describes four Adams, the two highest of which, were celestial and spiritual. The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam made of dust, and placed in the garden of Eden. This Adam was also an androgene . . . . . . It had, when first created, a glorious simulacrum or light body. The fourth Adam was the Third Adam as he was after the fall, when he was clothed with animal skin, flesh, nerves etc. He has the animal power of reproduction and continuance of Species. But in him is still some of the light of all the preceding Adams.

Those who bowed before the image of God were the enclosure of spirits of which Adam was their compilation. Those who refused to bow before the new creation were the enclosure of spirits of which Eve was their compilation, and she was named after the last word spoken by God’s heavenly evolving son before he fell asleep, “MOTHER,” or that is to say “EVE,” which name means, ‘Mother” of all those spirits who were cast back into the refining fires of life on earth.

The Spiritual Godhead to the upright walking reptiles, who had ruled the earth for over three million years, was then cast out of paradise and hurled down to the earth of the sixth period of universal activity from which the spirits of his formation had been gathered, where he was condemned thereafter to crawl on his belly in the dust..

The spirit of the lower place (The sixth period of universal activity as opposed to the seventh day in which Adam was created) then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form, that is THOUGHT, he was able to deceive Eve, but he couldn’t touch Adam.

Let me read to you from the Book of Adam and Eve, whether or not you believe what the spirit is trying to reveal to you in this story, is up to you. After Adam had been driven out of paradise and returned to the lower place just after the great event in which the life on earth had been annihilated, from which he had been formed, he cried out to the devil who was tormenting his wife ‘Eve,’ “Why do you torment us so?” And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: “O Adam! All my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens in the midsts of the angels and for thee was I cast down to the earth.’

Adam answered, “What dost thou tell me? What have I done to thee, or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us? The Devil replied, “Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life, and thy face and thy likeness were made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord (Jahel, or Lord to the glory of El the creator) spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.” And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: “Worship the image of God as the (Lord Jah) (God El) hath commanded.” And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said, “Worship the image of God the Lord.” And I answered, “I have no need to worship Adam.” And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, “Why dost thou urge me?” I will not worship an inferior being than me. I am his senior in the creation; before he was made I was already made. It is Adam’s duty to worship me.”

When the angels who were under me, heard this, they also refused to worship Adam, And Michael saith, “Worship the image of God, (The Most High and Lord of Creatures) but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath with thee.” But he, said, “If he be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest himself.” And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on thy account, were we expelled from our abodes into this world and were hurled on the earth. And straight way we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we were grieved when we saw thee in such Joy and luxury (In the Garden of Eden). And with guile I (The Spiritual godhead of the upright walking serpent) cheated thy wife Eve and caused thee to be expelled through her doing from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory, etc. It is also written somewhere else in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, that after Satan had been hurled down to the earth of the sixth cycle of universal activity and while Adam was still in Paradise, the ruling spirit in the enclosure that was Eve whose pregnant body today has become the entire body of mankind, then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form he was able to deceive Eve, but he was unable to touch Adam.

It is the evolving spirit of God’s Son, who is developing within the body of EVE, the expanded and pregnant androgynous body of Mankind, which body must endure great pains and tribulation before she bears, “The Son of Man,” the new androgynous body of light beings that evolve from mankind.

When 'The Son of Man' personally appears on earth, I wonder if the atheists will refuse to bow before him, saying, "We will not bow before a creation inferior to ourselves, before he was made, we were already made, it is the duty of 'The Son of Man' to bow before we?"

OMG! Did you make that up??? Or did you actually get that from someone else? It sounds like a sci-fi movie script.....a bad one.

None of that is from the Bible.....so I am hard pressed to understand your description as a "bible believer"....?
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
I haven't seen any statements of fact. That would be something new from the poster concerned.

Got any statements of fact that you'd like to offer? Or are snide jabs and cheap shots what you do too? Takes one to know one I guess. :D


And again.....isn't that called being a hypocrite? :shrug:
Still stinging I see. Well, the truth does hurt. Considering your first comments to me were an attack on the Christian religion I follow, I feel very comfortable that you are still winner and champion of the Hate Against Other Christians contest.

And you got more jabs and cheap shots in on this post too. Wow! You must be one tremendously insecure person. You cannot go for even a little bit without doing it. It is like you are bound and determined to provide the example for my statements of fact. Thank you so much.

I would go on, but I choose not to waste any further time with you.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Still stinging I see. Well, the truth does hurt. Considering your first comments to me were an attack on the Christian religion I follow, I feel very comfortable that you are still winner and champion of the Hate Against Other Christians contest.

Oh I see, you're the one still stinging from that exchange....wasn't that about the hypocrisy of a Christian claiming that God didn't create what he said he did? That he just created evolution and left us to it? Wasn't it something like that? And how long ago was that??? Grudges are so unchristian you know.....:oops:

And you got more jabs and cheap shots in on this post too. Wow! You must be one tremendously insecure person. You cannot go for even a little bit without doing it. It is like you are bound and determined to provide the example for my statements of fact. Thank you so much.

You are more than welcome, but I'm sure anyone reading this is smiling like I am over your own jabs and snide remarks about my jabs and snide remarks..... :confused:

images


I would go on, but I choose not to waste any further time with you.

I think you just did....:D Bye....
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh there's ample evidence.. Genesis was written after the Babylonian exile. The truth won't affect Jehovah's Witnesses.
See what I meant by my last post to you. Petty, yet completely oblivious to it out of their own self righteousness. She is one of the worst offenders too.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Oh I see, you're the one still stinging from that exchange....wasn't that about the hypocrisy of a Christian claiming that God didn't create what he said he did? That he just created evolution and left us to it? Wasn't it something like that? And how long ago was that??? Grudges are so unchristian you know.....:oops:



You are more than welcome, but I'm sure anyone reading this is smiling like I am over your own jabs and snide remarks about my jabs and snide remarks..... :confused:

images




I think you just did....:D Bye....

Are you also a young earth creationist?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
My approach to the scriptures is simple
That’s obvious. It skews your thinking.

I do not see them as the product of man, but as the word of God
So the texts fell out of the sky in your denomination’s particular translation. Unless that happened, the texts ARE the product of human beings.

Either I trust that God can and did provide what he wanted to be included in what most people recognise as "the Bible" or it is nothing but a corrupted piece of fantasy that no one one should give a second thought to
But, there are more than a dozen that YOU don’t include. Are you, then, going against God’s will? If God is the author of sacred text, and some of those sacred texts are NOT included, then aren’t you attempting to edit what God has provided?
To me it's an all or nothing approach
That’s a big part of the problem. Spiritual matters include a whole lot of grey area, especially where sacred text is concerned. Black/white seems an indefensible approach.

To be led astray by the nay-sayers to pick and choose which bits to promote and which to ignore has become an artform by some on these boards
It’s been going on since the texts began to be canonized. Your 66 books is the result of this picking and choosing you are condemning.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
If Christians follow their example, they will not enter into God's rest either. That 7th day ends with the 1,000 year reign of God's Kingdom under Christ as Mediator, with a complete reconciliation with the Father.
Yet, the text says, "And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation."
Do you see the past tense? "Finished," "rested," "had done," "blessed," "hallowed," "rested," "had done." All acts of God on the 7th day are Past. Tense. If the 7th day is ongoing, the verbs would be in present tense. But they're not. Because the 7th day is over.

You don't think that the creative "days" were only 24 hours long surely? :shrug: That would make God a magician, not a Creator.
The 7 days of creation are mythic, not literal. It has been shown that the creation stories come from much older Sumerian and Egyptian myths. In those mythic accounts, God is Creator, not magician.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The Revelation clearly describes the serpent as satan the devil. It also mentions his "angels".
Genesis was clearly written without the concept of the Greek Satan. The Genesis account clearly is using the symbol of the serpent to describe wisdom. That's why the caduceus is the symbol of the medical profession. The serpent stands for wisdom, not deception. In several older accounts (from which Genesis is derived), wisdom comes in the form of a pariah.

and that by partaking that she would know what God knows.....was the devil a liar or was God?
Their eyes were opened, according to the texts. They acquired the knowledge of good and evil -- just as Wisdom had told them.

Without the devil being a real entity, nothing in the Bible makes any sense, especially Jesus' death.
I don't see how that theologically follows. The devil is unnecessary to salvation.

Individual Jews had to come out of that corrupt system in order to merit salvation.
Except that Jesus was dealing with the nation of Israel, not individuals. If Jesus is Messiah, Jesus is Messiah of the nation of Jews -- not just individuals.

I believe that you need to study the scriptures a little more deeply.
Ditto.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
It’s been going on since the texts began to be canonized. Your 66 books is the result of this picking and choosing you are condemning.

There comes a point, though, where you have to exclude certain texts. We feel Jehovah has done that, with those 66 books and no others.

“The twenty-four book canon [the Tanakh] is mentioned in the Midrash Koheleth 12:12: Whoever brings together in his house more than twenty four books brings confusion.[20]
——Hebrew Bible - Wikipedia

The Jews were restrictive, too, regarding Holy Texts.


The Scriptures are all we need and are hard enough to understand accurately, without adding further confusing and often contradictory texts.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There comes a point, though, where you have to exclude certain texts.
I get that. And I agree. But the poster to whom I responded said that "God provided everything we need" in the way of holy text. God provided. When we, then, "have to exclude certain texts," that's our act -- not God's act, if we're sticking with that particular paradigm. If it's true that "God provided everything we need," and there are legitimate bibles with many more than 66 books, how can a very human weeding-out process be tolerated? Seems as though that would be going against what "God intended."

FWIW, I disagree that "God provided" where texts are concerned. I just don't buy it. The textual product is a human product. It's part of the Tradition of the Apostles.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I get that. And I agree. But the poster to whom I responded said that "God provided everything we need" in the way of holy text. God provided. When we, then, "have to exclude certain texts," that's our act -- not God's act, if we're sticking with that particular paradigm. If it's true that "God provided everything we need," and there are legitimate bibles with many more than 66 books, how can a very human weeding-out process be tolerated? Seems as though that would be going against what "God intended."

FWIW, I disagree that "God provided" where texts are concerned. I just don't buy it. The textual product is a human product. It's part of the Tradition of the Apostles.
Thanks for your reply.

This is the way I see it:
I believe the Scriptures, the 66-book canon. It presents what I feel is a logical explanation of the origin of humans. (Humans are vastly superior to any other organism on Earth, with our sentient capacity for love, Justice, etc. Evolution doesn’t provide any satisfactory answer, to me.)

It makes sense that a Creator who’s loving, would give His best to His children. And Adam & Eve had the best, like a caring father would give his offspring. They were created perfect (a condition we don’t fully understand), and had all they needed. Very few Laws, BTW.

I also found out something that the Bible in Genesis 3 tells us, that there were issues raised by an Opposer in G of E (which A & E listened to). It required time to settle, and also required God’s absence from human affairs (for the most part; reference Genesis 6).

Since He was going to “be away” from us, it also makes sense that He, being loving, would give us a book, telling us about Him, how to act, what things to avoid, how to repel His Enemy that was the cause of this rebellion, and other issues.

This is just a simple explanation.

Take care
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Are you also a young earth creationist?
No. The earth is very ancient and the living things on it are much older than humans. We do not dismiss what science knows, but we do question what it assumes without real evidence.

The creative "days" were not 24 hours long....we believe that they were thousands or even millions of years in length....however long it took the Creator to accomplish all that he needed in order to declare His accomplishments to be "good" or even "very good". The Bible does not argue with that.

As there is no declaration to conclude the 7th day, we don't believe that It has ended. When the rule of God's Kingdom brings mankind back to God's original purpose in Eden, it also will be declared, "very good".

This is why Jesus taught us to pray for God's Kingdom to "come" so that God's will can be done "on earth as it is in heaven."
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
That’s obvious. It skews your thinking.

And you and others are as entitled to think that of me as I am of anyone else.
Why are we here after all? Isn't it to state what we belive and why we believe it? Aren't we all then free to evaluate what others believe?
Why be offended if our beliefs are challenged?

e.g. I believe that one cannot possibly combine creation and macro-evolution, but there are some here who can, because they interpret the Bible to accommodate it. I also don't believe that Sharmanism and Christianity can be fused either because scripturally, they are completely incompatible....but those like yourself find no such incompatibility. So you are as free to criticise my beliefs as I am yours. Debating about these things allows others to consider both views and to make up their own minds. Isn't that a good thing?

Those who get all bent out of shape when their beliefs are challenged should go and find a website where no one is allowed to do that. I don't think RF is that place. Getting hostile accomplishes what? It just betrays a lack of confidence in ones own views IMO. When people can't defend, they attack. It's what humans do.

So the texts fell out of the sky in your denomination’s particular translation. Unless that happened, the texts ARE the product of human beings.

Why does it need to fall out of the sky? A translation is a translation....the Bible was not written in English, so it is obvious that there is a propensity for those with religious bias, to translate certain passages in accord with their own pre-conceived beliefs. Having a translation that eliminates that bias to the extent possible is important. Bias, however is in the eye of the beholder. Before reacting negatively, a bit of research into the original languages is useful but sometimes confronting when it discloses a flaw in our belief system.

God inspired the Bible writers to record his dealings with the human race. They contain his laws and requirements and as the Creator of all, he obligates humans to uphold them, regardless of what "religion" they follow. God did not create those religions, humans did, to accommodate what they wanted to believe.

But, there are more than a dozen that YOU don’t include. Are you, then, going against God’s will? If God is the author of sacred text, and some of those sacred texts are NOT included, then aren’t you attempting to edit what God has provided?

Again, if it is God's word, then He was the one who determined the finished product. Whom he used to accomplish that is irrelevant. God can use even his enemies to accomplish his purpose.

If you believe that the Bible is just the words of men, then it becomes a fallible, worthless piece of human wisdom which would render its recommendations and commands as something that can be dismissed if it goes against ones chosen beliefs. Isn't that what we see?

That’s a big part of the problem. Spiritual matters include a whole lot of grey area, especially where sacred text is concerned. Black/white seems an indefensible approach.

God promised that as we got closer to the end of this corrupt world system, that he would provide knowledge that would eliminate all those "grey" areas. Those who still think there is "grey" cannot really have the truth. At this point in time, we are no longer stumbling around in the dark. Along with that knowledge however, was the warning that those whom God considers "wicked" (immovable in their views, much like the first century Pharisees) would still be clueless, not seeing the need to clean up or refine their worship. (Daniel 12:4; Daniel :12: 9-10) This "time of the end" leaves no room for doubt. (James 1:5-8)

It’s been going on since the texts began to be canonized. Your 66 books is the result of this picking and choosing you are condemning.

Human squabbles notwithstanding, those 66 books are all we need to serve the true God successfully. There is nothing of value that is missing. If you believe that the Bible is God's word, you free yourself from the kind of doubt that undermines faith. The Bible builds faith, but you have to know what it teaches.

We are all free to believe whatever we wish.....but getting our nose out of joint because someone challenges our chosen view is a bit out of place in a debate forum, is it not?

Either there is an all powerful Creator who left humans with his guidance in the form of written laws and principles to direct our lives...or he didn't give us any guidance at all. He is not a God of confusion....there is another in that role. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) In that scenario, if we believe it, it's up to us to make our own choices and deal with the consequences.

What do you believe that the Creator is doing right now, as he is observing all this religious confusion and allowing all of us to choose what to believe? What does he want for us? Aren't we all doing what we want with regard to our worship....but how many of us are doing what GOD wants? That's the big question, isn't it?

Jesus said we must be "doing the will of the Father", regardless of what we call ourselves. (Matthew 7:21-23) How do you do the "will of the Father" if you don't even know what it is?
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
So you are as free to criticise my beliefs as I am yours
I’m not criticizing your beliefs. I’m criticizing your lack of critical thinking.

Getting hostile accomplishes what?
So, a critique of the logic used in a debate is “hostility” now?

God inspired the Bible writers to record his dealings with the human race.
So, there IS a human factor, then. And if there’s a human factor, it’s biased, fallible and of limited perspective.

Again, if it is God's word, then He was the one who determined the finished product.
Apparently, Martin Luther determined the finished product, because, until he came along, there were more books included.

If you believe that the Bible is just the words of men, then it becomes a fallible, worthless piece of human wisdom which would render its recommendations and commands as something that can be dismissed if it goes against ones chosen beliefs. Isn't that what we see?
It is fallible, but it’s not worthless. From where I stand, all people dismiss what they don’t like. Or reinterpret, mostly without due diligence.

Human squabbles notwithstanding, those 66 books are all we need to serve the true God successfully
Are they? Since when did they become “all we need?” Because there used to be more. Who decided to omit them? People?

If you believe that the Bible is God's word, you free yourself from the kind of doubt that undermines faith
If you employ doubt responsibly, you keep your faith from becoming blind certitude.
Either there is an all powerful Creator who left humans with his guidance in the form of written laws and principles to direct our lives...or he didn't give us any guidance at all
Or, God gave us the apostles and their ongoing teaching. Remember: there was no Bible as you know it for the first 450 years of Christianity.

How do you do the "will of the Father" if you don't even know what it is?
Prayer, discernment, the apostles’ teaching.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I’m not criticizing your beliefs. I’m criticizing your lack of critical thinking.
I'm sorry, but its your opinion that my critical thinking is lacking....my thinking is no more "skewed" than your own.....should I question your lack of critical thinking just because it disagrees with mine?

So, a critique of the logic used in a debate is “hostility” now?

Is that what I said? Do you make it a habit of striking down strawmen? Again, why is it illogical just because it doesn't agree with your worldview? Who said it was the logic that was hostile....? Its your tone that is hostile. Re-read your replies to me. You don't have to agree with me but you don't have to get mean spirited either.

So, there IS a human factor, then. And if there’s a human factor, it’s biased, fallible and of limited perspective.

If God can use humans to accomplish his will, then you miss the point. The humans used are irrelevant. They do not even recognize the fact that God is working through them. Its much the same as it says in Revelation, God puts ideas in their head and they do his bidding thinking that its all their own idea. (Revelation 17:15-17)

Apparently, Martin Luther determined the finished product, because, until he came along, there were more books included.

God using humans again? Why not? It was time for action against a completely corrupted church.

It is fallible, but it’s not worthless. From where I stand, all people dismiss what they don’t like. Or reinterpret, mostly without due diligence.

I have never found it to be fallible....I find human interpretation to be fallible. We dismiss nothing....and we take the Bible for what it says in the context of the whole book, not just bits and pieces taken out of context and misconstrued to mean something completely different to what is said. It is one story...those who can't see it, don't know what the big picture is....they are too busy staring at what they believe are the dead pixels.

Are they? Since when did they become “all we need?” Because there used to be more. Who decided to omit them? People?

Since God guided the process, he put what we needed all in one book and told us to use it to guide our lives.
People had little to do with its content.

If you employ doubt responsibly, you keep your faith from becoming blind certitude.

Employ doubt about yourself? absolutely...but about the word of God...NEVER! Blind faith serves no one. Being confident about your beliefs is described in Hebrews 11:1.

"Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."
An "assured expectation" leaves no room for doubt. If you know your Bible, and understand its message, you need nothing else....All the important questions are answered.

Or, God gave us the apostles and their ongoing teaching. Remember: there was no Bible as you know it for the first 450 years of Christianity.

When Paul wrote to Timothy, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).....he was speaking about the Hebrew scriptures. They were all that was necessary up until Christ came....but what he left was recorded by his apostles and others.....this was to guide the church that Jesus started...but it was also foretold that it too would suffer corruption, just as Judaism did before it.

Prayer, discernment, the apostles’ teaching.

Exactly.....but as it was prophesied by Jesus himself, "weeds" sown by the devil were to produce a "fake" form of Christianity that would all but choke the "wheat" out of existence. That corrupted 'church' introduced all manner of false doctrines and misrepresented Christ in the worst way. It held a tyrannical hold over "Christianity" for 1500 years...and then God used Martin Luther to break the power of the Roman church, doing what most would have been too scared to even contemplate. He protested about the abuses he saw.....loudly, and others joined him, sick of the complete and evil abuse of their power.

Protestantism gave the Bible back to the common people and made it possible for all to read God's word translated into common languages. But they failed to unite Christianity....breaking it up into thousands of bickering sects. So where to now?

When Christ returns to judge this world, who will he recognize as his own? Won't it be interesting to find out?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Yet, the text says, "And on the seventh day God finished the work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all the work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all the work that he had done in creation."

Do you see the past tense? "Finished," "rested," "had done," "blessed," "hallowed," "rested," "had done." All acts of God on the 7th day are Past. Tense. If the 7th day is ongoing, the verbs would be in present tense. But they're not. Because the 7th day is over.


The 7 days of creation are mythic, not literal. It has been shown that the creation stories come from much older Sumerian and Egyptian myths. In those mythic accounts, God is Creator, not magician.

Excellent post.. Its important to stay on track and not stray from the truth.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I'm sorry, but its your opinion that my critical thinking is lacking....my thinking is no more "skewed" than your own.....should I question your lack of critical thinking just because it disagrees with mine?



Is that what I said? Do you make it a habit of striking down strawmen? Again, why is it illogical just because it doesn't agree with your worldview? Who said it was the logic that was hostile....? Its your tone that is hostile. Re-read your replies to me. You don't have to agree with me but you don't have to get mean spirited either.



If God can use humans to accomplish his will, then you miss the point. The humans used are irrelevant. They do not even recognize the fact that God is working through them. Its much the same as it says in Revelation, God puts ideas in their head and they do his bidding thinking that its all their own idea. (Revelation 17:15-17)



God using humans again? Why not? It was time for action against a completely corrupted church.



I have never found it to be fallible....I find human interpretation to be fallible. We dismiss nothing....and we take the Bible for what it says in the context of the whole book, not just bits and pieces taken out of context and misconstrued to mean something completely different to what is said. It is one story...those who can't see it, don't know what the big picture is....they are too busy staring at what they believe are the dead pixels.



Since God guided the process, he put what we needed all in one book and told us to use it to guide our lives.
People had little to do with its content.



Employ doubt about yourself? absolutely...but about the word of God...NEVER! Blind faith serves no one. Being confident about your beliefs is described in Hebrews 11:1.

"Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen."
An "assured expectation" leaves no room for doubt. If you know your Bible, and understand its message, you need nothing else....All the important questions are answered.



When Paul wrote to Timothy, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17).....he was speaking about the Hebrew scriptures. They were all that was necessary up until Christ came....but what he left was recorded by his apostles and others.....this was to guide the church that Jesus started...but it was also foretold that it too would suffer corruption, just as Judaism did before it.



Exactly.....but as it was prophesied by Jesus himself, "weeds" sown by the devil were to produce a "fake" form of Christianity that would all but choke the "wheat" out of existence. That corrupted 'church' introduced all manner of false doctrines and misrepresented Christ in the worst way. It held a tyrannical hold over "Christianity" for 1500 years...and then God used Martin Luther to break the power of the Roman church, doing what most would have been too scared to even contemplate. He protested about the abuses he saw.....loudly, and others joined him, sick of the complete and evil abuse of their power.

Protestantism gave the Bible back to the common people and made it possible for all to read God's word translated into common languages. But they failed to unite Christianity....breaking it up into thousands of bickering sects. So where to now?

When Christ returns to judge this world, who will he recognize as his own? Won't it be interesting to find out?

Ezra and Daniel and a little bit of Jeremiah were written in Aramaic.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I'm sorry, but its your opinion that my critical thinking is lacking
Your posts, themselves, are evidence of such a lack; it's not my opinion.

why is it illogical just because it doesn't agree with your worldview?
It's not illogical because it differs from my world view. It's illogical because it's illogical.

They do not even recognize the fact that God is working through them.
I call BS. When we're connected with God -- we know it. Because God connects with us holistically, how can our cognizance NOT be engaged?

Its much the same as it says in Revelation, God puts ideas in their head and they do his bidding thinking that its all their own idea. (Revelation 17:15-17)
That passage says nothing about not being aware that God is working through one.

It was time for action against a completely corrupted church.
That's your opinion. The church still survives. Had it been completely corrupt, it would not have survived. And it's still the largest sect of the body of Christ. Yes, there was corruption. But that corruption was not complete. The church righted itself.

I have never found it to be fallible
See above. This is an excellent example of a lack of critical thinking where the texts are concerned.

and we take the Bible for what it says in the context of the whole book, not just bits and pieces taken out of context and misconstrued to mean something completely different to what is said
You just quoted Revelation out of context above, and used it out of context to support a statement that it patently does not support.

It is one story...those who can't see it, don't know what the big picture is....they are too busy staring at what they believe are the dead pixels.
Again: see above. This, too, is an excellent example of a lack of critical thinking. As far as the texts are concerned, you're seeing a big picture that does not exist.

Since God guided the process, he put what we needed all in one book
Apparently, then, human beings fouled up what God intended.

Employ doubt about yourself? absolutely...but about the word of God...NEVER!
That is the textbook definition of blind faith.

If you know your Bible, and understand its message, you need nothing else....All the important questions are answered.
The bible many times raises more questions than it answers. That's how we grow: by questioning.

this was to guide the church that Jesus started...but it was also foretold that it too would suffer corruption, just as Judaism did before it.
The church Jesus started is the one that provided the bible with more than just 66 books. The church that Jesus started is the one you call "fake."

Exactly.....but as it was prophesied by Jesus himself, "weeds" sown by the devil were to produce a "fake" form of Christianity that would all but choke the "wheat" out of existence. That corrupted 'church' introduced all manner of false doctrines and misrepresented Christ in the worst way. It held a tyrannical hold over "Christianity" for 1500 years...and then God used Martin Luther to break the power of the Roman church, doing what most would have been too scared to even contemplate. He protested about the abuses he saw.....loudly, and others joined him, sick of the complete and evil abuse of their power.
Here's another glaring example of taking a bit of text completely out f context. The parable of the wheat and weeds has nothing to do with passing judgment on the church. It has everything to do with the overall message of Matthew (indeed, it's the central message of Matthew), which is inclusiveness.
Again, this post is your opinion, not fact. This is an instance of you not liking what you hear and justifying why you won't have faith in the church. How do you know the doctrines are "false?" You don't.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Your posts, themselves, are evidence of such a lack; it's not my opinion.

I believe that is your opinion, no matter how many people share it....remember the example of Jesus and his apostles? Whose opinion was shared by the majority back then, leading to the murder of their own savior? Majority opinion is deceptive. (Remember Noah's day too)

I have an opinion as well, one that is not shared by as many as you, perhaps, but is your opinion somehow superior to mine because it might be more popular, and if so how? You sound like someone who is used to having authority. It isn't worth anything here. Like me, you are just anonymous words on a page.

It's not illogical because it differs from my world view. It's illogical because it's illogical.

It's illogical to you...but who said your logic is correct? You? Those who share your view? How many actually agree with your particular form of Christianity.....? Just curious...

I call BS. When we're connected with God -- we know it. Because God connects with us holistically, how can our cognizance NOT be engaged?

You can call whatever you like....there is another god working in opposition to Jehovah. He is clearly identified in the Bible, and his agenda has never changed. This "angel of light" is capable of "blinding minds" (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) which is so much more successful than just blinding eyes. A blinded mind prevents information from all the senses from being processed correctly in the brains information processing center. But the good thing is, that this can only occur with "unbelievers".

The "wheat" are the believers, the ones invited by God into a relationship with him through his son...(John 6:65)....the "weeds" are the ones sown by the devil to become counterfeit "Christians" who were to be identified by Jesus at the judgment as claiming 'all the things they did in the name of their Lord' but being rejected by him as those he "never knew". (Matthew 7:21-23) Do the fake Christians know that they are fakes? Apparently not. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12) They are under a delusion of their own invention and they love it, so God lets them keep it.
 
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