What does the Bible say about the origins of the Earth in relation to what science say?

[shmogie]

Lincoln or Twain, right ?

 

[shmogie]

A fundy can never be wrong, not even to misunderstanding
why I said "last thursday"

As for what the bible says, it says jesus is a door and pi is 3.0

Actually, the example used to declare pi in the Bible as 3.0 doesn´t say what the critics say it does Specifically, it says a rope of a certain length was used to measure, it does not state the measurement number, although it assigns specific value to other measurements.

So, the length of the measuring device is extrapolated as the circumference of the vessel in question, which leads to 3.0

Tĥe length of the rope is irrelevant to the circumference measurement of the vessel, which is not given.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Um... it was true. Entirely true. Hence the reason @Audie didn't disagree with me. She was using your own words, just framed up differently, with a different time-frame, to show you how ridiculous your claim was. I'm pretty sure she would readily admit that her "last Thursday" claim was ridiculous, because it was meant to be. I don't know what you think you're disagreeing with here by saying "you know that is not true" but you're completely off base.

She was only parroting your assertion:

NO it still is not true. There is nothing ridiculous about humans coming from adults to breed. It is entirely true that babies could not survive to adulthood and populate the earth.
The fact you believe the earth became a solid substance from gases etc also proves the earth had to be fully formed to allow any life to survive on this planet.
There is absolutely NOTHING stupid about God creating a completed world with everything on it. The fact you avoid the logic and have no answers to the obvious shows how willing you are to deceive yourselves in this matter.

Fine... we can "go with what The Bible says" - and it says absolutely nothing about the maturity aspect of the universe. Nothing. Completely silent on that point. So your assertion, when going "by what The Bible says" is complete and utter crap. Best to remain quiet than show your inability to stick to the facts and what The Bible actually says.

See how stupid the answer is... Better read Genesis 1 then you can tell us what is not mature about his creation of the world and everything in 6 days from being without form and void.
Next time read the bible before you comment because until you do then everything you are saying is shown by the bible to be false about creation? Making a mature earth and animals.
Oh yes I know you were trying to be clever by making it about the universe but if the world does not exist within a mature universe then when did it catch up and when did we become part of it.
The truth is it is impossible other than the bible to know how the universe evolved. So the only truth available would be from the bible.As God created the heavens and the earth then the universe
even the unseen he created.




1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

 

[Audie]

Actually, the example used to declare pi in the Bible as 3.0 doesn´t say what the critics say it does Specifically, it says a rope of a certain length was used to measure, it does not state the measurement number, although it assigns specific value to other measurements.

So, the length of the measuring device is extrapolated as the circumference of the vessel in question, which leads to 3.0

Tĥe length of the rope is irrelevant to the circumference measurement of the vessel, which is not given.

I have heard at least a dozen different / conflicting explanations
none of which note the obvious, that the measurements are
approximate.

Why do suppose that is?

 

[SA Huguenot]

Its ok, some just are not very self aware.

Not that 93 pounds of me is exactly a lion but
the other proportions match.

"A flea jumped into a lion's cage and bit that lion good,
And then he stood on the lion's mangy mane, as a conquering hero should.
He said, 'Oh witness, my power and my might,
I've conquered that lion with one mighty bite.
He does not roar, he does not growl, although his mood is black
He's lying there and doesn't even dare to try and bite me back!
A mighty flea am I, a mighty flea am I.'

Now concerning this flea, one sad thing must be written:
That lion didn't even know that he'd been bitten.
And the moral of this story is painfully plain:
That fleas, like human beings, are silly and vain.

So why did you bite a lion?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You obviously cannot grasp the concept, no surprise there. You have earned a place on my ignore list, the only one in years to do so, congratulations. It will be so today,

LOL!!!

Putting someone on ignore for dismantling your argument and exposing the flaws therein.

Gotta love it.

Guess what, time is relative, itś a brand new theory by a guy named Einstein, you ought of find out about it.

First of all, not really brand new. Unless you think a century old is "brand new".

Secondly, the relativity of time has to do with travel speed and gravity. Not with gods creating planets that look old and putting "fake" fossils in the ground.

Depending upon the point of measurement in the universe, the perspective, a photon could have been released years ago, or millions of years ago. They are both equally true, not appear true, they are literally true.

Irrelevant to the fact that there are million year old fossils in the ground.

Leave it to you to expand the issue into other areas, not understanding the basic principle

Says the guy who just demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding of general relativity.....

This will blow your mind, a fossil can be a million years old, or a day old

Fossils don't form in a single day.
Neither do the rocks they are found in.

Off course... if you allow for magic or deceptive gods, I guess "anything" is possible.

​

So goodbye, I will thankfully not see any of your posts from now on.

Yeah... god-forbid you might actually learn something.

You will not have to take your valuable time to try to "teach¨ me anything.

Yeah, how horrible of me.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No

No?

So, really.... you agreed with my post and then subsequently put me on ignore for it?

That's...... weird.

 

[shmogie]

No?

So, really.... you agreed with my post and then subsequently put me on ignore for it?

That's...... weird.

That response was not to you. I made a mistake. It was for ecco. mea culpa

 

[Audie]

LOL!!!

Putting someone on ignore for dismantling your argument and exposing the flaws therein.

Gotta love it.





First of all, not really brand new. Unless you think a century old is "brand new".

Secondly, the relativity of time has to do with travel speed and gravity. Not with gods creating planets that look old and putting "fake" fossils in the ground.



Irrelevant to the fact that there are million year old fossils in the ground.



Says the guy who just demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding of general relativity.....



Fossils don't form in a single day.
Neither do the rocks they are found in.

Off course... if you allow for magic or deceptive gods, I guess "anything" is possible.

​

Yeah... god-forbid you might actually learn something.



Yeah, how horrible of me.

I do hope our friend is not one of those
"instant fossil" people, like the ones who
think giant stalactites can grow in a few years.

Shmog? Tell us it aint so?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

NO it still is not true. There is nothing ridiculous about humans coming from adults to breed. It is entirely true that babies could not survive to adulthood and populate the earth.

The above comment is just so comical. I can tell you're the kind of person who seriously thinks that either the chicken or the egg "came first." You have a lot to learn.

The fact you believe the earth became a solid substance from gases etc also proves the earth had to be fully formed to allow any life to survive on this planet.

By the time life was able to form/survive/etc. on this planet, yes, it had "fully formed" - by which I assume you mean that it was in a state suitable to sustain life. Which is sort of a ridiculously obvious point, isn't it? Life wasn't able to live on the Earth until Earth could sustain such life. So what? This profoundly proves any point of yours how exactly?

There is absolutely NOTHING stupid about God creating a completed world with everything on it.

Yes, there is. The fact that we see nothing like this happening in any time throughout any part of human history. Anyone ever report even something as rudimentary as a tree just "poofing" into existence? How about even just something as simple as a stone? It's stupid because it is an entirely naked assertion, with nothing to protect it from any sort of scrutiny. It comes with no evidence except a story that is no better than any other fictional account of "how the Earth began" (of which there are PLENTY, of course, not just your preferred one), it comes with no correlating activities in the universe now that would support the idea that this sort of thing can happen, and we can't witness or observe anything like this happening now. It is a credulous person indeed who hears a story in which fantastical things happen that are known to be completely unnatural and outside of the realm of what appears to be possible normally, and just tacitly accepts the story as fact.

The fact you avoid the logic and have no answers to the obvious shows how willing you are to deceive yourselves in this matter.

What "logic" am I avoiding? And what "answers" am I supposed to have? I don't even remember you even asking any questions! But if you're referring to my "answers" for how life came to be, or how Earth came to form - then I will ask you - WHY DO I NEED TO HAVE THE ANSWERS? This is something I hear so often from believers - "Well, how do you think life arose then?" Do you know what the only honest answer is in lieu of sufficient evidence? The honest answer is "I DON'T KNOW." That's the honest answer.

See how stupid the answer is... Better read Genesis 1 then you can tell us what is not mature about his creation of the world and everything in 6 days from being without form and void.
Next time read the bible before you comment because until you do then everything you are saying is shown by the bible to be false about creation? Making a mature earth and animals.
Oh yes I know you were trying to be clever by making it about the universe but if the world does not exist within a mature universe then when did it catch up and when did we become part of it.
The truth is it is impossible other than the bible to know how the universe evolved. So the only truth available would be from the bible.As God created the heavens and the earth then the universe
even the unseen he created.

You had to have known I meant that The Bible says nothing at all about making things created appear as if they were aged by all means of discerning such ages. Like the distance light has traveled through millions upon millions of years, or the radioactive decay of elements, the presence of fossils, etc. It says nothing about any of that. It does not, for example, say "Then God placed the stars in the sky, and because light only travels at a maximum speed of some particular value, he had to also create the light-rays extending out from those stars so that the creatures of Earth would be able to perceive them." It doesn't talk about creating things "with age." A "star" being created does not mean that all the light being cast in every direction throughout the universe over the course of millions of years just "comes with it." Though I obviously wouldn't expect someone from 2,000 years ago to understand this... hence the state of The Bible and the fact that none of that is even known or discussed, and hence the reason we have these arguments. Because you don't have the evidence on your side... at all.

 

[shmogie]

I do hope our friend is not one of those
"instant fossil" people, like the ones who
think giant stalactites can grow in a few years.

Shmog? Tell us it aint so?

I think there may be an issue with measuring how old fossils are, but no, I think the idea that God makes things appear to be older than they are, is folderol.

 

[Audie]

I think there may be an issue with measuring how old fossils are, but no, I think the idea that God makes things appear to be older than they are, is folderol.

Why do you think there is an issue?

And of course, there are fossils of many
ages and environments so a number of techniques
are used.

 

[Audie]

The above comment is just so comical. I can tell you're the kind of person who seriously thinks that either the chicken or the egg "came first." You have a lot to learn.


By the time life was able to form/survive/etc. on this planet, yes, it had "fully formed" - by which I assume you mean that it was in a state suitable to sustain life. Which is sort of a ridiculously obvious point, isn't it? Life wasn't able to live on the Earth until Earth could sustain such life. So what? This profoundly proves any point of yours how exactly?


Yes, there is. The fact that we see nothing like this happening in any time throughout any part of human history. Anyone ever report even something as rudimentary as a tree just "poofing" into existence? How about even just something as simple as a stone? It's stupid because it is an entirely naked assertion, with nothing to protect it from any sort of scrutiny. It comes with no evidence except a story that is no better than any other fictional account of "how the Earth began" (of which there are PLENTY, of course, not just your preferred one), it comes with no correlating activities in the universe now that would support the idea that this sort of thing can happen, and we can't witness or observe anything like this happening now. It is a credulous person indeed who hears a story in which fantastical things happen that are known to be completely unnatural and outside of the realm of what appears to be possible normally, and just tacitly accepts the story as fact.


What "logic" am I avoiding? And what "answers" am I supposed to have? I don't even remember you even asking any questions! But if you're referring to my "answers" for how life came to be, or how Earth came to form - then I will ask you - WHY DO I NEED TO HAVE THE ANSWERS? This is something I hear so often from believers - "Well, how do you think life arose then?" Do you know what the only honest answer is in lieu of sufficient evidence? The honest answer is "I DON'T KNOW." That's the honest answer.


You had to have known I meant that The Bible says nothing at all about making things created appear as if they were aged by all means of discerning such ages. Like the distance light has traveled through millions upon millions of years, or the radioactive decay of elements, the presence of fossils, etc. It says nothing about any of that. It does not, for example, say "Then God placed the stars in the sky, and because light only travels at a maximum speed of some particular value, he had to also create the light-rays extending out from those stars so that the creatures of Earth would be able to perceive them." It doesn't talk about creating things "with age." A "star" being created does not mean that all the light being cast in every direction throughout the universe over the course of millions of years just "comes with it." Though I obviously wouldn't expect someone from 2,000 years ago to understand this... hence the state of The Bible and the fact that none of that is even known or discussed, and hence the reason we have these arguments. Because you don't have the evidence on your side... at all.

Let it go, this is not a level playing field.

 

[shmogie]

Why do you think there is an issue?

And of course, there are fossils of many
ages and environments so a number of techniques
are used.

I said may be. Since the alleged age of the geology determines fossil age, determining the age of geology is critical. Sometimes the stated age of the geology doesn´t seem right.

I read of one case where the fossil of a standing tree was in two geological strata from top to bottom, strata millions of years apart in age.

If this account was true, then something is wrong.

 

[Wandering Monk]

I said may be. Since the alleged age of the geology determines fossil age, determining the age of geology is critical. Sometimes the stated age of the geology doesn´t seem right.

Straw man. Geologic dating isn't limited to fossils found there. Other techniques are employed.

Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods | Learn Science at Scitable

I read of one case where the fossil of a standing tree was in two geological strata from top to bottom, strata millions of years apart in age.

Let's have it then.

 

[shmogie]

The above comment is just so comical. I can tell you're the kind of person who seriously thinks that either the chicken or the egg "came first." You have a lot to learn.


By the time life was able to form/survive/etc. on this planet, yes, it had "fully formed" - by which I assume you mean that it was in a state suitable to sustain life. Which is sort of a ridiculously obvious point, isn't it? Life wasn't able to live on the Earth until Earth could sustain such life. So what? This profoundly proves any point of yours how exactly?


Yes, there is. The fact that we see nothing like this happening in any time throughout any part of human history. Anyone ever report even something as rudimentary as a tree just "poofing" into existence? How about even just something as simple as a stone? It's stupid because it is an entirely naked assertion, with nothing to protect it from any sort of scrutiny. It comes with no evidence except a story that is no better than any other fictional account of "how the Earth began" (of which there are PLENTY, of course, not just your preferred one), it comes with no correlating activities in the universe now that would support the idea that this sort of thing can happen, and we can't witness or observe anything like this happening now. It is a credulous person indeed who hears a story in which fantastical things happen that are known to be completely unnatural and outside of the realm of what appears to be possible normally, and just tacitly accepts the story as fact.


What "logic" am I avoiding? And what "answers" am I supposed to have? I don't even remember you even asking any questions! But if you're referring to my "answers" for how life came to be, or how Earth came to form - then I will ask you - WHY DO I NEED TO HAVE THE ANSWERS? This is something I hear so often from believers - "Well, how do you think life arose then?" Do you know what the only honest answer is in lieu of sufficient evidence? The honest answer is "I DON'T KNOW." That's the honest answer.


You had to have known I meant that The Bible says nothing at all about making things created appear as if they were aged by all means of discerning such ages. Like the distance light has traveled through millions upon millions of years, or the radioactive decay of elements, the presence of fossils, etc. It says nothing about any of that. It does not, for example, say "Then God placed the stars in the sky, and because light only travels at a maximum speed of some particular value, he had to also create the light-rays extending out from those stars so that the creatures of Earth would be able to perceive them." It doesn't talk about creating things "with age." A "star" being created does not mean that all the light being cast in every direction throughout the universe over the course of millions of years just "comes with it." Though I obviously wouldn't expect someone from 2,000 years ago to understand this... hence the state of The Bible and the fact that none of that is even known or discussed, and hence the reason we have these arguments. Because you don't have the evidence on your side... at all.

One point, The Bible is clear that God only created one time, what I equate to the big bang. He made from what he created for 6 days.

He has not made or created anything since, as far as our universe is concerned.

Thus, no one will see a tree popping into existence.

 

[shmogie]

Straw man. Geologic dating isn't limited to fossils found there. Other techniques are employed.

Dating Rocks and Fossils Using Geologic Methods | Learn Science at Scitable




Let's have it then.

So, determining the age of geology accurately is a straw man. Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

I understand the various methods used for geologcal dating, so, whatś your point ?

 

[JJ50]

One point, The Bible is clear that God only created one time, what I equate to the big bang. He made from what he created for 6 days.

He has not made or created anything since, as far as our universe is concerned.

Thus, no one will see a tree popping into existence.

If the author of the creation story had known as much as we do today about universe, they may have attributed a lot more to their god character than they did.

 

[Wandering Monk]

So, determining the age of geology accurately is a straw man. Well, you are entitled to your opinion.

I understand the various methods used for geologcal dating, so, whatś your point ?

No, the straw man was YOU suggesting that age of geology was tied to fossils found therein and that age of fossils was determined by age of geology, thus creating a straw man impression that there was circular methodology taking place.

 

[ecco]

You obviously cannot grasp the concept, no surprise there. You have earned a place on my ignore list, the only one in years to do so, congratulations. It will be so today,

Guess what, time is relative, itś a brand new theory by a guy named Einstein, you ought of find out about it.

Depending upon the point of measurement in the universe, the perspective, a photon could have been released years ago, or millions of years ago. They are both equally true, not appear true, they are literally true.

Leave it to you to expand the issue into other areas, not understanding the basic principle, and draw ignorant conclusions, based upon misunderstanding. This will blow your mind, a fossil can be a million years old, or a day old, once again, depending upon how the age of the earth is measured relative to the rest of the universe. Both are absolutely true.

At the event horizon of a black hole, does time literally stop, or does it just appear to ?

So goodbye, I will thankfully not see any of your posts from now on. You will not have to take your valuable time to try to "teach¨ me anything.

IGNORING is what a lot of people do. That's one reason they know so little and think they know so much.

It's obvious you don't understand the concept of Last Thursdayism that TagliatelliMonster tried to carefully explain to you. You think it's nonsense. Perhaps it is, but it is exactly like Biblical Genesis. How you cannot see that is amazing, but not surprising.



ETA: Since originally posting this, I see that I am the one he is ignoring. I feel so bad.