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Proven Science says there is No Universe without Conscious Man to Observe it.

Who do you side with on scientific 'Reality'?

  • Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • Albert Einstein (Father of atheist scientist philosophy of 'Realism')

    Votes: 11 68.8%

  • Total voters
    16

Steven Merten

Active Member
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

Verses
Albert Einstein
"I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
on scientific Reality


 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It's important to consider the implications of the stories that we tell ourselves. What are the implications? Especially if you are not a man and are not a Christian?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

Verses
Albert Einstein
"I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
on scientific Reality




Evolution is proven beyond doubt

The universe has existed for more than 13.7 billion years before beings able to observe (at least part of it) came along?
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

Verses
Albert Einstein
"I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
on scientific Reality



Prove that you exist.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Reminds me of the "if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?"
images
 

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Steven Merten

Active Member
Has everyone watched the PBS Video? What are they talking about when they say Neils Bohr's 'Peek A Boo' universe, a universe which does not exist when conscious man is not observing it?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

Verses
Albert Einstein
"I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
on scientific Reality



First science proves nothing particularly from the scientific perspective, and philosophical assertions offer nothing to support the conclusions of the nature of our physical existence.

I side with neither since they assert philosophical conclusions on how we interpret the 'information' we have concerning the nature of our physical existence, and not the science. The science of reality is simply the descriptive nature of our physical existence, nothing less nor nothing more. The science of Einstein and Neils Bohr are excellent and descriptive of the nature of our physical existence from the science perspective.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"
If humans are the only observers capable of triggering wave function collapse, this implies the universe didn't exist as Reality until the first human observed it, and then "bam": it suddenly appeared (as all wavefunctions from 14.5 billion years collapsed for the first time).

Thus the big bang occurred when humans appeared and became conscious. But how could biology occur without prior wavefunction collapse?

Also: this implies that only upon seeing a phenomena for the first time triggers wavefunction collapse for the entire past history of the particles in question. This makes no sense. The universe doesn't need human observation to function.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Has everyone watched the PBS Video? What are they talking about when they say Neils Bohr's 'Peek A Boo' universe, a universe which does not exist when conscious man is not observing it?

Yes, I have seen the video several times, and enjoy PBS videos on science and scientists. Neils Bohr' description of the universe is from a philosopher's perspective and not science, and is not widely held by other scientists.

Personally from the perspective of a scientist the conclusion is not meaningful a conclusion based on science which is only descriptive for the nature of out physical existence, and nothing beyond this.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Neils Bohr (Father of Quantum Theory)
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties"

Verses
Albert Einstein
"I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it." (Realism)
Science cannot claim evolution when proven science indicates that the universe does not exist without conscious man to observe it. No universe before/without conscious man, thus no evolution before conscious man.

If there was a universe five days before Adam was created, it would be a scientific miracle.


The Great Neils Bohr VS Albert Einstein Debate
on scientific Reality


Those are the opinions of 2 mere mortals.
Sure, sure, they were smart.
But that doesn't mean that all they say is correct.
And to reason from their musings can still only result in opinion.
Add to this the problem that nothing in science is ever proven true, for all
theories are conditional, & stand ready to be replaced by better ones.
 

Steven Merten

Active Member
Does everyone agree that Albert Einstein, the smartest man ever, spent a great deal of his valuable thinking time, decades of his life, trying to come up with a way to prove the universe exists even when conscious man is not looking at it?

Are people who think they are scientifically smart today, thinking this was a waste of Albert Einstein's valuable thought, time?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Does everyone agree that Albert Einstein, the smartest man ever, spent a great deal of his valuable thinking time, decades of his life, trying to come up with a way to prove the universe exists even when conscious man is not looking at it?
I don't know who the smartest person ever is.
I'd never heard that he tried to prove what you say.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Does everyone agree that Albert Einstein, the smartest man ever, spent a great deal of his valuable thinking time, decades of his life, trying to come up with a way to prove the universe exists even when conscious man is not looking at it?

Are people who think they are scientifically smart today, thinking this was a waste of Albert Einstein's valuable thought, time?

I detect more than a hint of extreme sarcasm, which his no place in science. Actually Einstein has been wrong in some of his science and math.
 

Steven Merten

Active Member
Does everyone agree that an electron changes its course of past travel, when conscious man observes it? How did an electron 'evolve' to know when man is looking at it, and thus go back in physical time to change its path of travel?

 

Steven Merten

Active Member
I detect more than a hint of extreme sarcasm, which his no place in science. Actually Einstein has been wrong in some of his science and math.
I am not being sarcastic. Albert Einstein and Neils Bohr were extremely serious about whether or not we had a reality without conscious man to observe the universe and they spent a tremendous amount of valuable, great minds, thinking and debating on the issue.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Does everyone agree that Albert Einstein, the smartest man ever, spent a great deal of his valuable thinking time, decades of his life, trying to come up with a way to prove the universe exists even when conscious man is not looking at it?

Are people who think they are scientifically smart today, thinking this was a waste of Albert Einstein's valuable thought, time?

He was wrong about stuff too. He rejected quantum mechanics.

5 times Einstein was wrong
 
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