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For Christians Only: The Big Picture

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Since Adam and his wife were the first humans....no one was here before they were created.....:confused:

Adam and Eve were not the first humans, theres the six day creation of male and female.

The first male and female were created on the six day. Genesis 1:26-27-31.

Then God rested on the 7th day, Genesis 2:2
And then on the next day, God created Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:6-15.
 
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LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Since Adam and his wife were the first humans....no one was here before they were created.....:confused:
The original serpent was never cast out from heaven for rebellion. It was a beast of the field that could speak and was punished to spend the rest if its days on its belly eating dirt.

The serpent is now a symbol of the lust of the flesh because that is what caused Adam and Eve to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. Eve saw that the fruit was PLEASANT to the EYES (lust of the eyes), Good for FOOD(lust of the flesh) DESIRED to make one wise, to be as gods (pride of life).

There is no need for your imaginary Satan and devil because ALL sin and death is attributed to the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life.

Jesus called Judas a devil because Judas betrayed Jesus for money.
Jesus called Peter Satan because Peter was savoring the things of man rather than God when Peter tried to stop Jesus from going to Jerusalem to suffer and die.

The Jews correctly identify the serpent in the garden as man's evil inclination. They call man's evil heart the Yetzar Hara.

And Jeremiah says that ABOVE ALL THINGS the heart of man is evil and desperately wicked.

Your imaginary devil has nothing on man's evil heart because it is evil beyond ALL things.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Adam and Eve were not the first humans, theres the six day creation of male and female.

The first male and female were created on the six day. Genesis 1:26-27-31.

Then God rested on the 7th day, Genesis 2:2
And then on the next day, God created Adam and Eve. Genesis 2:6-15.

Funny, that's not what Genesis says at all.....nor is it in line with the theme of the whole Bible....which is the whole reason why Jesus came to undo what Adam did to his children. (Romans 5:12)

God created the first humans at the end of the 6th day and then rested from his creative works...but there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the 7th day has ended. The apostle Paul spoke about Israel not entering into God's rest because of their disobedience.....

"Therefore, just as the holy spirit says, “Today if you listen to his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as on the occasion of provoking to bitter anger, as in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your forefathers put me to the test and tried me, despite seeing my works for 40 years. 10 This is why I became disgusted with this generation and said: ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger: ‘They will not enter into my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11)

If Christians follow their example, they will not enter into God's rest either. That 7th day ends with the 1,000 year reign of God's Kingdom under Christ as Mediator, with a complete reconciliation with the Father.

You don't think that the creative "days" were only 24 hours long surely? :shrug: That would make God a magician, not a Creator.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Let's examine your statements here.....

The original serpent was never cast out from heaven for rebellion. It was a beast of the field that could speak and was punished to spend the rest if its days on its belly eating dirt.

The Revelation clearly describes the serpent as satan the devil. It also mentions his "angels". Are you arguing with scripture? (Revelation 12:7-12) Or just the parts that disagree with your interpretation?

The serpent is now a symbol of the lust of the flesh because that is what caused Adam and Eve to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit.

Adam and his wife had no "lust of the flesh" before sin entered into their lives. It was that the fruit looked delicious and it probably piqued her curiosity about its flavor since it was the only tree that God denied access to. ...she was human with taste buds and designed to enjoy the food that God provided for them....made all the more tempting because the devil removed the penalty, telling her she would not die.

Eve saw that the fruit was PLEASANT to the EYES (lust of the eyes), Good for FOOD(lust of the flesh) DESIRED to make one wise, to be as gods (pride of life).

She was deceived into thinking that God had sinister motives in withholding it.....and that by partaking that she would know what God knows.....was the devil a liar or was God? Was there the promised benefit....or is the whole human race suffering because of what they did in abusing their free will at the behest of someone they didn't even know and should not have believed...? You do understand that only the woman was deceived...Adam was not. That is why the fall in Eden is attributed to him, not the woman. (Romans 5:12)

There is no need for your imaginary Satan and devil because ALL sin and death is attributed to the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life.

Nonsense. If Jesus said that the devil is real...do you question him? Since Jesus was sinless, how do you explain him being tempted by the devil? Jesus had none of those things attributed to human sinfulness.
Without the devil being a real entity, nothing in the Bible makes any sense, especially Jesus' death. Why is Jesus called "the last Adam"? (1 Corinthians 15:45)

Jesus called Judas a devil because Judas betrayed Jesus for money.
Jesus called Peter Satan because Peter was savoring the things of man rather than God when Peter tried to stop Jesus from going to Jerusalem to suffer and die.

Understanding that the terms "devil" and "satan" are not names but descriptions of character is important.
The Greek di·aʹbo·los (devil) means “slanderer.” The devil slandered God by calling him a liar and questioning his motives.
The Scriptures indicate that the creature known as Satan did not always have that name. Rather, this descriptive name was given to him because of his taking a course of opposition and resistance to God. In Hebrew he is called "the adversary".....because he made himself an enemy of God...an opposer.

The Jews correctly identify the serpent in the garden as man's evil inclination. They call man's evil heart the Yetzar Hara.

And the Jews got how many things right in their whole history?......seriously, what did Jesus have to say about the Jewish leaders of his day? (Matthew 23:13-39) Did they somehow improve after God 'abandoned' them as incorrigible covenant breakers? Jesus did not come to the Jewish leaders but to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel"....he condemned their neglectful shepherds to "gehenna". Individual Jews had to come out of that corrupt system in order to merit salvation. Jesus as the Fine Shepherd led them out and still does. He leads people out of all false worship but only if they obey his commands and leave their false religious ideas behind them, as the Gentiles did in the first century.

And Jeremiah says that ABOVE ALL THINGS the heart of man is evil and desperately wicked.

That is so true....we have a figurative 'partner in crime' within our own body.....justifying all manner of things that we want to believe. Yet if we just follow Jesus' teachings and stop adding our own spin to them, we would see a very clear and simple truth.....this whole situation has been a battle for the hearts and minds of men from the beginning. The opponents are God and the devil....free willed humans have to choose who it is that they believe and whose interests they wish to serve.

Your imaginary devil has nothing on man's evil heart because it is evil beyond ALL things.

And yet we have that word "inhuman" when it comes to the level of evil that some humans are capable of displaying.....that is because their behavior is NOT human. There is an influence that comes from outside of normal human behavior that leads them to go against their own God-given conscience.

I believe that you need to study the scriptures a little more deeply.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Funny, that's not what Genesis says at all.....nor is it in line with the theme of the whole Bible....which is the whole reason why Jesus came to undo what Adam did to his children. (Romans 5:12)

God created the first humans at the end of the 6th day and then rested from his creative works...but there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the 7th day has ended. The apostle Paul spoke about Israel not entering into God's rest because of their disobedience.....

"Therefore, just as the holy spirit says, “Today if you listen to his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as on the occasion of provoking to bitter anger, as in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your forefathers put me to the test and tried me, despite seeing my works for 40 years. 10 This is why I became disgusted with this generation and said: ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger: ‘They will not enter into my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11)

If Christians follow their example, they will not enter into God's rest either. That 7th day ends with the 1,000 year reign of God's Kingdom under Christ as Mediator, with a complete reconciliation with the Father.

You don't think that the creative "days" were only 24 hours long surely? :shrug: That would make God a magician, not a Creator.

Your the that's to funny.
The 7th day Sabbath was to bring Israel to Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ fulfilled the 7th day Sabbath by keeping it himself.
This why Jesus Christ said in
Matthew 11:28--"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest"
Christians are to rest in Jesus Christ and not on any day of the week no more.

Further more, as it is written in
1 Corinthians 5:7--"Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us"

You do know that the Passover is the
high Sabbath.
Therefore Jesus Christ is our high Sabbath.
We rest in Christ Jesus and not on any day of the week no more.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Let's examine your statements here.....



The Revelation clearly describes the serpent as satan the devil. It also mentions his "angels". Are you arguing with scripture? (Revelation 12:7-12) Or just the parts that disagree with your interpretation?

The devil was in the garden but it was not the serpent creature. The serpent merely represents the lust of the flesh which caused Adam to sin. So, the serpent is lust that would disobey God for personal gain. Everyone has a devil in them.

And when Jesus overcame the world and it's lust the devil was destroyed in his own human flesh.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil),

Now the one you holds the power of death is SIN. It was Adam's SIN that brought death into the world.And everyone sins when they are drawn away and enticed by their OWN LUST or desires.
James 1:13-15

You really need much more intelligent reading son.



Adam and his wife had no "lust of the flesh" before sin entered into their lives. It was that the fruit looked delicious and it probably piqued her curiosity about its flavor since it was the only tree that God denied access to. ...she was human with taste buds and designed to enjoy the food that God provided for them....made all the more tempting because the devil removed the penalty, telling her she would not die.

So Adam sinned even before he had desires or lust of the flesh? NONSENSE! Absurdity!

Eve had desire or lust (same thing) for the fruit before she ate which clearly shows she had lust of the flesh.

Paul calls Adam the natural man made from dirt (earth) and that natural man can not inherit the kingdom of God. Adam was the natural man or earthy man right from his creation.

Sorry friend but there is no need from your imaginary devil
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The devil was in the garden but it was not the serpent creature. The serpent merely represents the lust of the flesh which caused Adam to sin. So, the serpent is lust that would disobey God for personal gain. Everyone has a devil in them.

And when Jesus overcame the world and it's lust the devil was destroyed in his own human flesh.

Hebrews 2:14 Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he likewise shared in their humanity, so that through death he could destroy the one who holds the power of death (that is, the devil),

Now the one you holds the power of death is SIN. It was Adam's SIN that brought death into the world.And everyone sins when they are drawn away and enticed by their OWN LUST or desires.
James 1:13-15

You really need much more intelligent reading son.

So Adam sinned even before he had desires or lust of the flesh? NONSENSE! Absurdity!

Eve had desire or lust (same thing) for the fruit before she ate which clearly shows she had lust of the flesh.

Paul calls Adam the natural man made from dirt (earth) and that natural man can not inherit the kingdom of God. Adam was the natural man or earthy man right from his creation.

Sorry friend but there is no need from your imaginary devil

If you say so. But nothing you said is backed up by scripture. Even when I showed it to you, it was ignored.
A person cannot be convinced of anything against their will.

You see, what you said is "nonsense and absurdity" to me.

You really need much more intelligent reading son.

FYI...I am not your "son"......or your "daughter" for that matter. A click on my name would have revealed that I am female. And I am old enough to be your mother.....son.

I just wonder what brand of "Christianity" you subscribe to? Do you have a brotherhood who believe as you do? Is there a website where I can check out your beliefs and compare them with the "scriptures"?......Or are you just another Lone Ranger with their "own" take on the Bible? Just curious....
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Here is what I have come to appreciate in my studies.....

The Bible presents one story from Genesis to Revelation.....what we lost in the beginning is restored at the end.....yet so many people do not connect all the dots
Here is what I’ve come to appreciate in my professional study:
The Bible presents us with a range of different stories, written across a large span of time by people of many perspectives and backgrounds, and in a couple of ancient languages. Each story must stand alone, if we’re to arrive at a pure exegetical treatment of each. Yet so many people don’t understand this.

Both are complementary because all are contained in one 'library'.....we need the whole book
What is “the whole book?” Is it 66 books? Or does it contain the 81 books of the Ethiopian canon? Does it include Thomas? Does it contain other fragmentary documents?

You cannot understand the Greek scriptures without the Hebrew scriptures
Yeah. You can (and should).
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Funny, that's not what Genesis says at all.....nor is it in line with the theme of the whole Bible....which is the whole reason why Jesus came to undo what Adam did to his children. (Romans 5:12)

God created the first humans at the end of the 6th day and then rested from his creative works...but there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that the 7th day has ended. The apostle Paul spoke about Israel not entering into God's rest because of their disobedience.....

"Therefore, just as the holy spirit says, “Today if you listen to his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as on the occasion of provoking to bitter anger, as in the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your forefathers put me to the test and tried me, despite seeing my works for 40 years. 10 This is why I became disgusted with this generation and said: ‘They always go astray in their hearts, and they have not come to know my ways.’ 11 So I swore in my anger: ‘They will not enter into my rest.’” (Hebrews 3:7-11)

If Christians follow their example, they will not enter into God's rest either. That 7th day ends with the 1,000 year reign of God's Kingdom under Christ as Mediator, with a complete reconciliation with the Father.

You don't think that the creative "days" were only 24 hours long surely? :shrug: That would make God a magician, not a Creator.

Where do you think the book of Genesis came from?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Here is what I’ve come to appreciate in my professional study:
The Bible presents us with a range of different stories, written across a large span of time by people of many perspectives and backgrounds, and in a couple of ancient languages. Each story must stand alone, if we’re to arrive at a pure exegetical treatment of each. Yet so many people don’t understand this.


What is “the whole book?” Is it 66 books? Or does it contain the 81 books of the Ethiopian canon? Does it include Thomas? Does it contain other fragmentary documents?


Yeah. You can (and should).

It gets murkier stil.

The Tablets from Ugarit : Center for Online Judaic Studies
cojs.org/the_tablets_from_ugarit_and_their_importance_for_biblical_studies-_peter_c...
Jun 01, 2008 · The Tablets from Ugarit and Their Importance for Biblical Studies, Peter C. Craigie, BAR 9:05, Sep-Oct 1983. For 40 years Claude Schaeffer directed excavations at Ras Shamra in Syria. There he and his colleagues uncovered the remains of the long lost city of Ugarit, a Late Bronze Age metropolis in early Biblical times.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Here is what I’ve come to appreciate in my professional study:
The Bible presents us with a range of different stories, written across a large span of time by people of many perspectives and backgrounds, and in a couple of ancient languages. Each story must stand alone, if we’re to arrive at a pure exegetical treatment of each. Yet so many people don’t understand this.


What is “the whole book?” Is it 66 books? Or does it contain the 81 books of the Ethiopian canon? Does it include Thomas? Does it contain other fragmentary documents?


Yeah. You can (and should).

My approach to the scriptures is simple. I do not see them as the product of man, but as the word of God. Either I trust that God can and did provide what he wanted to be included in what most people recognise as "the Bible" or it is nothing but a corrupted piece of fantasy that no one one should give a second thought to.

To me it's an all or nothing approach. My faith in the Creator and his ability to fulfill his purpose tells me that he would not leave mankind without his instructions. They are all contained in that one book with 66 inclusions. To be led astray by the nay-sayers to pick and choose which bits to promote and which to ignore has become an artform by some on these boards. But I will trust God because men have never proven trustworthy. Human thinking is terribly flawed. It is not something that I would stake my life on. But that is what some are doing.....they have been to the great celestial supermarket and "shopped" for what they want to consume. They are free to do so, and God will not prevent them.

All of us are showing God who we are and what we want. The things is....what we want may be the opposite of what God wants, so who are we pleasing by our choices? We will all find out, no doubt. Some of us will be grateful with our choices and some will bitterly lament them, but they are ours to make. We will all be caught in the act of being ourselves.

I will believe God because he has never lied to me. I have no reason to doubt him. That's it.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Where do you think the book of Genesis came from?

From God. Where else do you think God's word would come from? o_O The human secretary was Moses.

What is the purpose of your constant disputes over the origins and writers of scripture? They accomplish what IYO? Faith or unbelief? What are you promoting except discord and undermining faith in God's word? Your comments are destructive to the faith you espouse IMO.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
From God. Where else do you think God's word would come from? o_O The human secretary was Moses.

What is the purpose of your constant disputes over the origins and writers of scripture? They accomplish what IYO? Faith or unbelief? What are you promoting except discord and undermining faith in God's word? Your comments are destructive to the faith you espouse IMO.

Genesis wasn't written until 800-900 years after Moses.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Genesis wasn't written until 800-900 years after Moses.

I love the way you make statements like that without a single shred of evidence to back it up except your ideas which I am sure are not yours originally anyway....who on earth (or elsewhere) are you listening to? o_O
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I love the way you make statements like that without a single shred of evidence to back it up except your ideas which I am sure are not yours originally anyway....who on earth (or elsewhere) are you listening to? o_O

Oh there's ample evidence.. Genesis was written after the Babylonian exile. The truth won't affect Jehovah's Witnesses.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Oh there's ample evidence.. Genesis was written after the Babylonian exile. The truth won't affect Jehovah's Witnesses.
Don't you just love how the self righteousness just oozes out as those little snide jabs and cheap shots about other Christians.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Don't you just love how the self righteousness just oozes out as those little snide jabs and cheap shots about other Christians.
Says he making "snide jabs and cheap shots about other Christians"....
happy0062.gif
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
[



Where does the Scripture teach that God's angels in heaven above ever rebelled or that they have free will to sin if they desire?

According to the book of Genesis, at the close of each creative day = period of universal activity, the observer says that he was pleased with what he saw, then came the evening which preceded the next creative day, but on the sixth creative day, after the observer had witnessed the Logos become all the great beasts of the earth, which included the dinosaurs, it is written that the observer was pleased with what he saw, but evening does not follow immediately.

Adam is created all alone, on the seventh day, on a barren earth, not by “EL the creator God, but by “Jahel,” who is “Jah=Lord to the glory of EL the creator.” and although the seeds of the plants were still in the scorched barren earth, no rain had fallen, etc, etc, and is later cast down to te earth of the sixth day..

It's written in the ancient scriptures, that the feet of God's son were on earth but his head (The evolving Mind) was in paradise, this was before the creation of mankind, but knowing the animal spirit of the lower place would be the destruction of his son who was evolving in paradise, God put his son (The spiritual Godhead of the creation) into a deep sleep.

This was done by bringing all terrestrial life on earth to a finish by a cataclysmic comet collision, and the last word from his forming son as he watched the earthly body from which he was being formed, brought to its finish, was “Mother.” The Lord then formed out of clay, an image of himself and commanded all the living spiritual godheads of the earthly species, which had been destroyed, to bow before his image, this was the division of all the spirits, the sheep and the goats, which had been gathered into the glorious heavenly simulacrum, the brilliant light body of God’s evolving heavenly Son, the pre-human Adam.

The Kabbala describes four Adams, the two highest of which, were celestial and spiritual. The third Adam is the terrestrial Adam made of dust, and placed in the garden of Eden. This Adam was also an androgene . . . . . . It had, when first created, a glorious simulacrum or light body. The fourth Adam was the Third Adam as he was after the fall, when he was clothed with animal skin, flesh, nerves etc. He has the animal power of reproduction and continuance of Species. But in him is still some of the light of all the preceding Adams.

Those who bowed before the image of God were the enclosure of spirits of which Adam was their compilation. Those who refused to bow before the new creation were the enclosure of spirits of which Eve was their compilation, and she was named after the last word spoken by God’s heavenly evolving son before he fell asleep, “MOTHER,” or that is to say “EVE,” which name means, ‘Mother” of all those spirits who were cast back into the refining fires of life on earth.

The Spiritual Godhead to the upright walking reptiles, who had ruled the earth for over three million years, was then cast out of paradise and hurled down to the earth of the sixth period of universal activity from which the spirits of his formation had been gathered, where he was condemned thereafter to crawl on his belly in the dust..

The spirit of the lower place (The sixth period of universal activity as opposed to the seventh day in which Adam was created) then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form, that is THOUGHT, he was able to deceive Eve, but he couldn’t touch Adam.

Let me read to you from the Book of Adam and Eve, whether or not you believe what the spirit is trying to reveal to you in this story, is up to you. After Adam had been driven out of paradise and returned to the lower place just after the great event in which the life on earth had been annihilated, from which he had been formed, he cried out to the devil who was tormenting his wife ‘Eve,’ “Why do you torment us so?” And with a heavy sigh, the devil spake: “O Adam! All my hostility, envy, and sorrow is for thee, since it is for thee that I have been expelled from my glory, which I possessed in the heavens in the midsts of the angels and for thee was I cast down to the earth.’

Adam answered, “What dost thou tell me? What have I done to thee, or what is my fault against thee? Seeing that thou hast received no harm or injury from us, why dost thou pursue us? The Devil replied, “Adam, what dost thou tell me? It is for thy sake that I have been hurled from that place. When thou wast formed, I was hurled out of the presence of God and banished from the company of the angels. When God blew into thee the breath of life, and thy face and thy likeness were made in the image of God, Michael also brought thee and made us worship thee in the sight of God; and God the Lord (Jahel, or Lord to the glory of El the creator) spake: Here is Adam. I have made thee in our image and likeness.” And Michael went out and called all the angels saying: “Worship the image of God as the (Lord Jah) (God El) hath commanded.” And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said, “Worship the image of God the Lord.” And I answered, “I have no need to worship Adam.” And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him, “Why dost thou urge me?” I will not worship an inferior being than me. I am his senior in the creation; before he was made I was already made. It is Adam’s duty to worship me.”

When the angels who were under me, heard this, they also refused to worship Adam, And Michael saith, “Worship the image of God, (The Most High and Lord of Creatures) but if thou wilt not worship him, the Lord God will be wrath with thee.” But he, said, “If he be wrath with me, I will set my seat above the stars of heaven and will be like the highest himself.” And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on thy account, were we expelled from our abodes into this world and were hurled on the earth. And straight way we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we were grieved when we saw thee in such Joy and luxury (In the Garden of Eden). And with guile I (The Spiritual godhead of the upright walking serpent) cheated thy wife Eve and caused thee to be expelled through her doing from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory, etc. It is also written somewhere else in the Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, that after Satan had been hurled down to the earth of the sixth cycle of universal activity and while Adam was still in Paradise, the ruling spirit in the enclosure that was Eve whose pregnant body today has become the entire body of mankind, then understood that God was about to bring in a new creation and he thought to bring Adam down, and in such form he was able to deceive Eve, but he was unable to touch Adam.

It is the evolving spirit of God’s Son, who is developing within the body of EVE, the expanded and pregnant androgynous body of Mankind, which body must endure great pains and tribulation before she bears, “The Son of Man,” the new androgynous body of light beings that evolve from mankind.

When 'The Son of Man' personally appears on earth, I wonder if the atheists will refuse to bow before him, saying, "We will not bow before a creation inferior to ourselves, before he was made, we were already made, it is the duty of 'The Son of Man' to bow before we?"
 
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