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The mother of Jesus

JJ50

Well-Known Member
How many women by the name Mary were at the crucifixion, burial, and empty tomb of Jesus, according to the four gospels? I will await your erroneous answer.
If the guy was actually crucified, I should think there was a huge crowd enjoying the event, no doubt a number of the women were called Mary.
 
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The Anointed

Well-Known Member
If the guy was actually crucified, I should think there was a huge crown enjoying the event, no doubt a number of the women were called Mary.

You can think what you like But you are wrong . And the question was; "How many women by the name Mary were at the crucifixion, burial, and empty tomb of Jesus, ACCORDING TO THE FOUR GOSPELS?" Not what YOU suppose, jojo.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
You can think what you like But you are wrong . And the question was; "How many women by the name Mary were at the crucifixion, burial, and empty tomb of Jesus, ACCORDING TO THE FOUR GOSPELS?" Not what YOU suppose, jojo.

The gospels aren't any sort of evidence as they were written a long time after the guy was a rotting corpse. You have no evidence that any of their tales have any credence.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Mary is more than a saint. She is the mother of God and Queen of Heaven. That Mary isn't talked about extensively in the Gospel narratives in no way detracts from our recognition of her role in our salvation. The truths of the faith are contained in both Scripture and Sacred Tradition.


The role of the Apostles were as founding bishops of the Church. Such was not Mary's role ergo she was not ranked among the Apostles.

Her role was to be the immaculate mother of the incarnate God, far surpassing the Apostles in dignity and grace.


It's what Christ commands, not what you think that's important.

The Apostles and all their successors were given the power to forgive sins. Matthew 18:18. If approaching the Church for sacramental absolution were not the intent of God this power would be utterly superfluous. Also, there's no requirement that a penance necessarily include Hail Marys. It involves whatever the confessor sees as fitting.


I would wager that the actively homosexual and pederast priests aren't going to confession all that often. A valid confession requires contrition, and a sincere resolution to reform. No half way decent confessor would let someone guilty of sodomizing altar boys off with a Hail Mary, as he himself would be guilty of gross negligence and thus sin.

The issue was never confession, but a catastrophic decline in standards that began around the 1940s reached an apex around the 1970s. Canon law, which required seminarians and clerics guilty of grave sexual sin (such as sodomy) be laiczed were ignored and in the name of 'mercy' large numbers of men clearly not fit for the priesthood were ordained anyway. The Church made the mistake of listening to the secular world, which insisted and still insists that sexual sin was no big deal. The hierarchy by in large ignored the wisdom of the Church and replaced it with the psychologising and enlightened 'wisdom' of the 1970s. Unfortunately, the mindset responsible for much of it is the mindset still prevailing among many of the clerics currently in power. It's a situation that may take a whole generation or two to fix.

Luke 11:28
As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said,
“Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You.”
But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

So there is the warning - from Jesus' own mouth. "But He replied..." and
"Blessed rather are those..."
In other words, don't worship Mary.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Butt out kid, you know nothing and the question was not to any biblically ignorant atheist, but to the London Limey smart aleck, who said concerning my post; "and the one-track record starts once more." who now needs to be put in its place, that is, if it has the intestinal fortitude to answer the question..

Thanks for called me kid, that is really kind of you seeing I shall be 70 next year.:D:D I have probably read that book from cover to cover many more times than you, but without wearing rose coloured spectacles and with an unquestioning attitude like yours.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
It's hardly any such thing. On the contrary, those who obey the word of God necessarily venerate Mary. See Luke 1:42 and Luke 1:28.


Absolutely not. Mary is a creature, not in herself divine. Nevertheless, as mother of the incarnate God she is due every veneration.

It is much more likely Mary got pregnant before marriage by Joseph or another guy. The idea of a god, which probably doesn't exist, getting her up the duff is not credible in the slightest. I reckon the virgin birth story was concocted to cover up the unfortunate conception of Jesus.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
It's hardly any such thing. On the contrary, those who obey the word of God necessarily venerate Mary. See Luke 1:42 and Luke 1:28.


Absolutely not. Mary is a creature, not in herself divine. Nevertheless, as mother of the incarnate God she is due every veneration.

How did Jesus "venerate" Mary?
How did the foundational Christians "venerate" Mary?
I thought she was just a little ol' Jewish lady. If Jesus wasn't attractive,
maybe she wasn't attractive either.
People who "venerate" Mary have less focus upon venerating Jesus.
Let's quote Jesus again, "But RATHER, blessed are they who hear the
word of God and obey it." Obeying means just that - doing what you are
told. And you aren't told there's another beside Jesus, let alone a queen
of heaven.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me. I wonder how many paedophile priests had to say before they were patted on the head by the church hierarchy and in effect given leave to abuse again?

The # of ‘conditions’ and ‘beliefs’ in order to be redeemed, saved, etc. and/or fit in and belong with the fellow ‘hive mind’ just seem to keep increasing amongst the many practices.

Beliefs of Mary, beliefs that the Bible and mankind’s many differing interpretations of it are the word of god, beliefs in all sorts of theological doctrines, and much more. From the one simple belief allegedly needed.... has transpired into so much more.

One part of me is intrigued as to how all of this stuff is appealing and sensible to many while another part of me understands that if I were in their current shoes, I’d be doing the same stuff.
 
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sealchan

Well-Known Member
But Catholics pray to her, they construct icons to her, they worship her. It's been noted that she commands more worship, prayer and attention among Catholics than Jesus does.

IMO the Abrahamic Faith's were built on the idea that a masculine God was superior to a feminine God and so literally all of the Goddess oriented elements of divinity were removed or subsumed into that of God the Father.

But God the Mother remains as just as compelling a psychological reality so the Catholics, in their good sense of sorts, had to sneak the Goddess back in or they might have lost an opportunity to capture the devotion of many Goddess oriented believers.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
How did Jesus "venerate" Mary?
How did the foundational Christians "venerate" Mary?
I thought she was just a little ol' Jewish lady. If Jesus wasn't attractive,
maybe she wasn't attractive either.
People who "venerate" Mary have less focus upon venerating Jesus.
Let's quote Jesus again, "But RATHER, blessed are they who hear the
word of God and obey it." Obeying means just that - doing what you are
told. And you aren't told there's another beside Jesus, let alone a queen
of heaven.

By calling her woman?
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
IMO the Abrahamic Faith's were built on the idea that a masculine God was superior to a feminine God and so literally all of the Goddess oriented elements of divinity were removed or subsumed into that of God the Father.

But God the Mother remains as just as compelling a psychological reality so the Catholics, in their good sense of sorts, had to sneak the Goddess back in or they might have lost an opportunity to capture the devotion of many Goddess oriented believers.

People who spout these beliefs are essentially saying they don't believe in the bible.
If God is the "Father" to those who communed with Him or wrote of Him in the bible
then he's the Father - period.
And if God is somehow converted to a Mother figure then the authors of this confusion
are really saying the bible is a fabrication that can be further fabricated.
If God is Mother then perhaps Jesus is Jesse and the Devil is Nicolette... no wait, the
Devil will always be male to those who fiddle with the written texts.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
By calling her woman?

The Canaanite had a pantheon of gods and the Hebrews were just another Canaanite tribe.

Asherah was the great Canaanite Mother Goddess since about the 13th century BCE and is arguably the most important Goddess in the Canaanite pantheon. Like Anat, She is a was well-documented Goddess of the northwest Semitic pantheon....... See Ugarit at Ras Shamra.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
If the guy was actually crucified, I should think there was a huge crowd enjoying the event, no doubt a number of the women were called Mary.
This poster has a preoccupation with some crank theory or other to do with Mary the wife of Clopas. Give him half a chance and this is what you will get, hoping you will take the bait, query it and thereby allow him to expatiate on his theory. (I've been through it once.)

As you say, Mary, or Maryam, or Miriam, seems to have been and remains a common name in the Levant.
 
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