The mother of Jesus

[JJ50]

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me.

 

[sooda]

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me. I wonder how many paedophile priests had to say before they were patted on the head by the church hierarchy and in effect given leave to abuse again?

You know, we could mind our own business and let them revere the mother of Jesus as they like. Do you revere your mother?

 

[JJ50]

You know, we could mind our own business and let them revere the mother of Jesus as they like. Do you revere your mother?

No I didn't.

 

[SalixIncendium]

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me. I wonder how many paedophile priests had to say before they were patted on the head by the church hierarchy and in effect given leave to abuse again?

Catholics pay her respect and revere Mary for being chosen by God to give birth to Jesus. I see nothing wrong with their reverence of her.

How does their doing so affect you personally...so personally that you feel a need to be angry about it and post a rant on a message board attacking another's beliefs? Does it make you feel better about yourself to judge others? Do you feel somehow superior as a result of doing so?

 

[sooda]

No I didn't.

I'm sorry.. I revered my mother and father.

 

[Kenny]

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me. I wonder how many paedophile priests had to say before they were patted on the head by the church hierarchy and in effect given leave to abuse again?

Actually, those who believe are actually all saints.

I may not agree with confessionals and Hail Mary's, however, Mary was acknowledged by Jesus, his disciples, a great example of "great faith", spiritual insights, and a great example of being a Christian. So I would disagree with your overall position.

I'm sorry for your experience with your mom, but not all mom's are like that. I revere my mom.

 

[JJ50]

I don't think anyone should be revered.

 

[sooda]

I don't think anyone should be revered.

That's too bad. I had wonderful parent and grandparents.

 

[JJ50]

That's too bad. I had wonderful parent and grandparents.

I have wonderful children, of whom I am very fond, but I don't revere them.

 

[Valjean]

Catholics pay her respect and revere Mary for being chosen by God to give birth to Jesus. I see nothing wrong with their reverence of her.

How does their doing so affect you personally...so personally that you feel a need to be angry about it and post a rant on a message board attacking another's beliefs? Does it make you feel better about yourself to judge others? Do you feel somehow superior as a result of doing so?

But Catholics pray to her, they construct icons to her, they worship her. It's been noted that she commands more worship, prayer and attention among Catholics than Jesus does.

 

[JJ50]

But Catholics pray to her, they construct icons to her, they worship her. It's been noted that she commands more worship, prayer and attention among Catholics than Jesus does.

That appears to be the case.

 

[Kenny]

I don't think anyone should be revered.

Depends on your definition. It may be different than ours.

revere
verb
re·vere | \ ri-ˈvir \
revered; revering
Definition of revere
(Entry 1 of 4)

transitive verb

: to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor revere the aged

nothing intrinsically wrong with revering.

 

[SalixIncendium]

But Catholics pray to her, they construct icons to her, they worship her. It's been noted that she commands more worship, prayer and attention among Catholics than Jesus does.

This has not been my experience. If this was indeed the case, she would be the centerpiece of the altar in the Catholic Church. She is not. At the center is a crucifix, with Mary’s image off to the side.

Sure, she is prayed to and revered, but I’m not sure I’d go as far as to say she is worshipped in the same way the Trinity is.

 

[metis]

During most mass liturgies there's not one prayer to (actually it's "through") Mary, and much the same is it true with our prayer books. It's a common misconception, however there are some Catholics that do pray through her more than most. With the Rosary, and any prayer that may include Mary, we pray through her to God ("...pray for us...").

The oldest Christian creed is the Apostle's Creed, and one phrase in it applies here, and that is "... the communion of saints...". And this includes saints both alive and deceased because the belief in the early Church was that the dead are not dead to God, therefore we can ask them to pray for us much like you and I can pray for other people.

Also, there is no requirement for us to pray through Mary or any other saint, thus if one feels uncomfortable doing that, then they probably shouldn't.

I believe the same applies to Orthodox Christians as well, btw.

 

[JJ50]

Depends on your definition. It may be different than ours.

revere
verb
re·vere | \ ri-ˈvir \
revered; revering
Definition of revere
(Entry 1 of 4)

transitive verb

: to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honor revere the aged

nothing intrinsically wrong with revering.

Honour seems to mean the same as worship to me. I don't worship anyone or anything. I have respect for those who deserve it like my own children. They are working out which cliff to chuck me off when I get more senile than I am now. It is great that we can have that sort of jokey relationship. But I know they are fond of this senile old bat. My mother would have been highly offended if I had joked like that with her, but sadly we didn't get on. Even her own mother,of whom I was fond, told me my mother was her own worst enemy. Still she is dead and gone now, end of story

 

[metis]

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all.

She's mentioned 54 times, and many do not deal with the birth narrative. See The mother of Jesus

The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me. I wonder how many paedophile priests had to say before they were patted on the head by the church hierarchy and in effect given leave to abuse again?

Seems that your main intent here was to slam the Catholic Church, not to have any serious theological discussion.

 

[Valjean]

This has not been my experience. If this was indeed the case, she would be the centerpiece of the altar in the Catholic Church. She is not. At the center is a crucifix, with Mary’s image off to the side.

Sure, she is prayed to and revered, but I’m not sure I’d go as far as to say she is worshipped in the same way the Trinity is.

Yet more people bow down to the Mary icon than they do the crucifix. They repeat a prayer: "Holy Mary, Mother of Christ...." more frequently than any prayer addressed directly to Jesus or to the trinity. I've seen people "take the knee" before a Mary icon, speak to her, pray to her. This strikes me as worship, and her statue an icon, whatever the official explanation/denial may be.

 

[JJ50]

She's mentioned 54 times, and many do not deal with the birth narrative. See The mother of Jesus

Seems that your main intent here was to slam the Catholic Church, not to have any serious theological discussion.

It doesn't have a very good reputation does it?

 

[metis]

Yet more people bow down to the Mary icon than they do the crucifix. They repeat a prayer: "Holy Mary, Mother of Christ...." more frequently than any prayer addressed directly to Jesus or to the trinity. I've seen people "take the knee" before a Mary icon, speak to her, pray to her. This strikes me as worship, and her statue an icon, whatever the official explanation/denial may be.

There are crucifixes all over the place within a Catholic church and in many a Catholic home, and they all have Jesus on the cross. Not so with Mary. Many women especially feel comfortable praying through another woman.

Again, it is not Mary that is to be worshiped as that is forbidden under Canon Law, and this is covered in the "Catechism of the Catholic Church". She can be venerated, as a statue of her or Jesus can be, but not worshiped as if she was a deity.

When Jesus was on the cross, Jesus said to the apostle John, "take thee thy mother", and that reference was to Mary. She has often been considered the "Mother of the Church" because of this.

BTW, Hindus obviously use a great many statues, right?

 

[metis]

It doesn't have a very good reputation does it?

So, it's clear that your actual motive is less than honest, thus being disguised as a serious theological discussion.

Actually, if you were to know your history, the Church not only has done a lot to advance civilization, it still very much does. It teaches basic Judeo-Christian morality, including that belief is not enough and that our actions must also be moral.

But we certainly ain't perfect, and let me add this is also true of agnostics. So, you maybe work on cleaning your house and I'll work on cleaning mine. Anything less for either of us is just being hypocritical.