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Blasphemy

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
I don't get it either. Then again, atheism often dovetails with anti-theism instead of simple apathy, which prompts folks to speak out against theism. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Some folks just like $#@%ing on other people's sacred things.

But for some very immature reason responding in the same manner is not justified
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
But for some very immature reason responding in the same manner is not justified

It's not really about maturity. It's about people behaving in accordance with their values, which are inevitably central to how we all behave. If something is in accord with our values, we see it as justified. If it is not, we conclude the opposite. It is often more complex than that, with competing (and even contradictory) values resulting in nuanced responses based on situation.

In any case, I know very little about blasphemy laws outside that they exist. I don't understand their historical and cultural context, much less whether or not that would meaningfully apply today. I do know that my culture tends to not pay enough respect to the power of words these days.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Because what's CRUCIAL is free speech. The need for free speech vastly outweighs any individual's desire to "not be offended".
America has long since passed worshipping free speech into worshipping petty, abusive narcissism, to the extent where being an *** is viewed as 'refreshing' and 'telling it like it is' and where any social consequence towards it is viewed as an attack on free speech. It hasn't created an environment of enlightened debate, its created a culture of purile backbiting immaturity that would fit well in a Southpark episode.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't get it either. Then again, atheism often dovetails with anti-theism instead of simple apathy, which prompts folks to speak out against theism. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. Some folks just like $#@%ing on other people's sacred things.
Theists and atheists alike seem to occasionally need to be reminded that their science book burning homophobic Christian aunt Sally doesn't represent theism, or even Christianity. (Apologies to any aunt Sallys who aren't this way.)
I understand that there is a need to feel like vocalizing non-theism should be protected, because for hundreds of years it most certainly was not. But the extent we as a nation and culture are pushing for..well...see my last post.
 

susanblange

Active Member
The Torah includes blasphemy as a deadly sin. Leviticus 24:16. It is considered a sin against God's person. Exodus 32:33. "...Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book". Hating God is also deadly. Proverbs 8:36. "But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death". You also shouldn't tick God off. Psalm 2:12. "Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little..."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Oh don't get me started...
I'll start for you...
- Forced Christian prayer & Bible stories in when I was in public
(government run) elementary school. (I was an atheist then too.)
- Religious oath to tell the truth in court. One must make a public
request for a secular oath, thereby announcing that one isn't Christian.
- Official slogan for the country is "In God We Trust".
Some say it could be any & every god. But "God" is the proper name
of the Christian god. Btw, some of us don't believe in any sky fairies.
 
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Nimos

Well-Known Member
So you in favour of hate speech, blatant racism and no censorship of terrorist propaganda
That is a weird comparison. promoting hate speech, racism and terrorism and to encourage violent towards certain groups of people. Is not the same as giving a special pass to scriptures or religious teachings about a God. There are no rules against talking bad or ridiculing ghosts or Aliens from another planet either. So why should God have special treatment?

Hate speech and encourage violence towards people with a specific religious view is just as punishable as if it is done against anyone else. But that have nothing to do with blasphemy, so not sure why you would make that comparison?
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
America has long since passed worshipping free speech into worshipping petty, abusive narcissism, to the extent where being an *** is viewed as 'refreshing' and 'telling it like it is' and where any social consequence towards it is viewed as an attack on free speech. It hasn't created an environment of enlightened debate, its created a culture of purile backbiting immaturity that would fit well in a Southpark episode.

I can agree with your concerns about where our culture has gone. But I'm not going to budge an inch on free speech.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Free speech is only ok to a point, racism and anti-gay bigotry should never be permitted and should be stamped out.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
I'll start for you...
- Forced Christian prayer & Bible stories in when I was in public
(government run) elementary school. (I was an atheist then too.)
- Religious oath to tell the truth in court. One must make a public
request for a secular oath, thereby announcing that one isn't Christian.
- Official slogan for the country is "In God We Trust".
Some say it could be any & every god. But "God" is the proper name
of the Christian god. Btw, some of us don't believe in any sky fairies.

So you believe its your democratic right that in order to please 3.1% of the United States population all the above should be changed?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
WHY? Why say anything at all about any topic that you believe may be false?

Cool. What do you think of the two statements:

1) it is true that gays should be allowed to marry
2) it is true that women should be able to abort, if they choose so

If you think those statements are false, I hope you are coherent, and you, so as your co believers, stop talking about those topics soon, too.

Ciao

- viole
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So you believe its your democratic right that in order to please 3.1% of the United States population all the above should be changed?
If the Constitution gave Christians the right to impose their religion on the country,
then that would be the law of the land. But it prohibits establishment of religion.
Moreover, Christians are heading down below 75% of the populace.
Should they be able to violate the Constitution in order to impose their religion
upon the unwilling non-believers?
I guarantee that when we heathens become the majority, we won't prohibit
religion. And we won't force you to say ant-Christian mottos or oaths.

Ref....
Percentage of Christians in U.S. Drifting Down, but Still High
pbzas6b3fe2xu3pzc3-7rq.png
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It was forced on me as a child. My EVIL grandmother, beat religion into her kids and from the age of two she kept telling me about the tortures of hell for naughty little girls like me.:mad::mad::mad::mad: I literally danced on her grave when horrible woman did us all a favour and died in the 90s!

If it was that long ago, I think it is time to move forward with life. You can't change the past and living in it will only keep you from changing. IMO

When I went to a monastery for a year and a priest said "Jesus, when he was a kid, looked at the other kids and said 'I want to play with you, you and you (all the good kids) but not the rest of you. I realized that even though I had no knowledge of scripture the guy was off his rocker.

The "naught girl" came to Jesus, used her tears to wash his feet, used to hair to to dry them and kissed him constantly. She was forgiven. God forgives
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
WHY? Why say anything at all about any topic that you believe may be false?
I am sure you have been told why on many, many occasions. But just in case you truly haven't, and really don't know:

Things are said because a great many people DO believe in insufficiently evidenced propositions like gods, and a good number of those people take their beliefs so seriously that they attempt to convince others. It is in that attempt to convince that they run up against people who aren't going to believe their wild stories (like me). When the people who do not believe end up realizing that the believers are letting their religious doctrine inform their public and even governmental actions, well then there is seen a HUGE problem in that fact and this situation must necessarily be combated by anyone who values freedom for the masses. Masses who are not all "Christian" or "Muslim" or "Hindu" or "Jewish."
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
Quite a strawman you created there. If you want to have a civil debate, let me know.

Well you said "Because what's CRUCIAL is free speech. The need for free speech vastly outweighs any individual's desire to "not be offended"

But what you really mean free speech as long as it agrees with my view

Plus I have no intention of knocking my statement down to prove anything in fact I strongly believe in absolute free speech so strawman how?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The ironies of this post are unbelievable. Are you that blind to your own contractions and hypocrisies?

So you may have had a mean grandmother, that justifies your conduct how?
What conduct? Dancing on a grave? She didn't say she was mean or abusive to anyone, did she? Oh... mean to a dead person... I forgot about that part. Why did I forget about that part? Oh... because it doesn't matter one lick, that's why.

Dead people are dead. Dancing on their graves means nothing objectively. If someone gets anything out of it emotionally or mentally, I say dance away. Who seriously cares? Besides this, I am sure the comment was a metaphor, and no actual "dancing" was done. Not that it would have mattered at all if there had been.

You don't get to dictate to someone how they feel after someone - ANYONE - dies. You don't. So stop trying to make anyone feel guilty about any feelings they had about any instance of someone else dying. It's unnecessary, and displays such a giant heap of naivete it is borderline disgusting.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I know there is within the UK the belief we have free speech, we don't! Most of what you're posted today breaks section 4a of the public order act
I don't believe this for an instant.

Can you give an example and show how it breaks this law?
 
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