Why do atheist believe something can come from nothing?

[Road Warrior]

So.... no comments on the actual points being made in that post (or the others)?
Not even an acknowledgement of having received links that explain some of the ways in which IC is a fallacious argument?

Interesting.

What do you want me to say? The links spoke for themselves. You posted them without comment so there is nothing for me to comment upon.

 

[Audie]

Let me start with the disclaimer that I am not a theoretical physicist, nore even anything close to that...
So what I'm saying/ know on the topic is limited to the extend of what I learned from watching talks from physicists like Krauss and Brian Greene, who try and explain physics in layman terms.

To paraphrase Krauss on your very question:

The multiverse is not something we dreamt up out of the blue... we've been driven to it. We've been driven to it, by the mathematics, the predictions of models like inflation theory, string theory, quantum mechanics... and some of us have been driven there kicking and screaming, like me. Because I don't even "like" the multiverse idea, I think it is ugly and unelegant. But, here we are, with models of reality that seem to work, and from which predictions of a multiverse naturally flow - it's inescapable. So, while these models are far from conclusive at this point, I'm willing to explore that. Not because I want to, but because I have to. Because as a scientist, I need to go where the evidence is leading me.


So I'm guessing the short answer to your question is "yes".

It is what I got from my own reading.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Why? It is not possible. Paraphrasing Meister Eckhart: 'Those who know the truth know that I am telling the truth'.

Your post is some sort of Logical Fallacy. But I am feeling quite lazy at the moment, so I cannot be bothered to google which one it is.

But. Regardless: your post is a perfect example of why the god you believe in is maliciously evil.

You actually believe your god has deliberately and with malicious intent, obfuscated things such that only a selected few, including yourself of course, get to "receive the ultimate reward".

If your god was actually Good? And even a fraction as powerful as you claim?

Your god already knows what is needed to be Convincing to anyone. But you claim it absolutely refuses ....

.... on what grounds? Elitism? Special Favorites? Only those who think like you?

Nobody really knows.... Ego?

...yeah...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

There are 2 kind of people who need a perceived authority to tell them the difference between good and evil.

The first are small children.
The second are psychopaths.

... three: three kinds of people....

The third are theists.

... wait..... nevermind... you covered them already.

 

[Road Warrior]

So, does this mean that you acknowledge that propositions like the multiverse, play in an entirely different league then propositions like the gods of theism?

As in: the first is worthy to explore while in the second, there isn't even anything to really explore?

Not necessarily. History has often shown that there are links to myth and legend with historical fact. One example would be Atlantis. Could it have existed? Sure. There are theories, but so far no hard evidence. Troy was another "myth" that was eventually found. Did the actual siege of Troy over Helen really happen? There's only a little evidence that it did.

Helen of Troy | Myth & Significance

Now, back to the stories of the Bible and other ancient religions in the area. Are all complete myth or are they rooted in events of the past such as a massive regional flood or an extraterrestrial visitation? Perhaps an interdimensional one. There's no evidence extraterrestrial or interdimensional contact but further research into Quantum physics may reveal there was contact.

Let's not forget Arthur C. Clarke's Three Laws, especially the third one: Arthur Clarke’s Laws

 

[leov]

Your post is some sort of Logical Fallacy. But I am feeling quite lazy at the moment, so I cannot be bothered to google which one it is.

But. Regardless: your post is a perfect example of why the god you believe in is maliciously evil.

You actually believe your god has deliberately and with malicious intent, obfuscated things such that only a selected few, including yourself of course, get to "receive the ultimate reward".

If your god was actually Good? And even a fraction as powerful as you claim?

Your god already knows what is needed to be Convincing to anyone. But you claim it absolutely refuses ....

.... on what grounds? Elitism? Special Favorites? Only those who think like you?

Nobody really knows.... Ego?

...yeah...

People are mistaken about God wanting to advertise Self through ignorance to other ignorant. If God has plans to involve you you will know it one way or another. That is between you and God.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What do you want me to say? The links spoke for themselves. You posted them without comment so there is nothing for me to comment upon.

You could comment on the fact that I provide you with a couple of examples of how IC is fallacious nonsense.
After all, you claimed that it was just my opinion that IC was fallacious.

I just showed you that no, it's not just my opinion. It's fundamentally flawed on various levels.

IC nonsense can be summed it by reducing it to its most basic (flawed) idea:
"I don't understand how this structure can evolve step by step. Therefor it didn't. Therefor god."

It might as well be given as an example in book called "logical fallacies for dummies", in the chapter "argument from ignorance or incredulity".

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Not necessarily. History has often shown that there are links to myth and legend with historical fact. One example would be Atlantis. Could it have existed? Sure. There are theories, but so far no hard evidence. Troy was another "myth" that was eventually found. Did the actual siege of Troy over Helen really happen? There's only a little evidence that it did.

Helen of Troy | Myth & Significance

/facepalm

Troy is just a human city and the story is just about nations waging war over a woman, a queen, "stolen" from one nation by the other.

I'm talking about claims concerning the supernatural. About claims that reach "outside" of our observable universe. Unless you are comparing a city called Troy with things happening "outside" of our universe, I really wonder how you think any of this is relevant to the points under discussion, or how it is analogous in any way whatsoever..................

Now, back to the stories of the Bible and other ancient religions in the area. Are all complete myth or are they rooted in events of the past such as a massive regional flood or an extraterrestrial visitation? Perhaps an interdimensional one. There's no evidence extraterrestrial or interdimensional contact but further research into Quantum physics may reveal there was contact.

Let's not forget Arthur C. Clarke's Three Laws, especially the third one: Arthur Clarke’s Laws

Let's not forget what the points under discussion are.
You are all over the place, except on point.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

People are mistaken about God wanting to advertise Self through ignorance to other ignorant. If God has plans to involve you you will know it one way or another. That is between you and God.

Do you agree that people are capable of being completely, honestly, utterly convinced that some "God" (many times, a different god then the one YOU worship) is "involving" them, or giving them "missions" or whatever you wish to call it, while actually just being delusional?

I'll go ahead and assume that Yes, you in fact accept that some people are just wrong.
So my question is: how do YOU know that you are not one of them?

 

[leov]

Do you agree that people are capable of being completely, honestly, utterly convinced that some "God" (many times, a different god then the one YOU worship) is "involving" them, or giving them "missions" or whatever you wish to call it, while actually just being delusional?

I'll go ahead and assume that Yes, you in fact accept that some people are just wrong.
So my question is: how do YOU know that you are not one of them?

People mistaken about what God’s purpose is. God would communicate with person in unmistakable ways. It is two different issues

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

People are mistaken about God wanting to advertise Self through ignorance to other ignorant. If God has plans to involve you you will know it one way or another. That is between you and God.

I can say, without reservation, that no god(s) have ever been in contact with me, either now, or when I was younger and far more gullible.

As you say-- it would be obvious, no? Such a Supreme Being and all of that.

So, again, the god you believe in? Is either:

1) Maliciously evil, deliberately being obtuse
2) Maliciously incompetent, incapable of convincing the majority of the planet
3) Indifferent -- who cares, then?
4) Doesn't exist.

(or 5) not all that powerful in the first place-- in which case, who cares? )

(( there are more options, but I cant' be bothered... ))

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

People mistaken about what God’s purpose is. God would communicate with person in unmistakable ways. It is two different issues

1) claims about god cannot proceed, until you show that god existing is even possible
2) Once you show, above, you then need to show that god or gods exist
3) THEN and ONLY THEN may you proceed to make claims about 'god', such as YOU claiming to "know" what "God's purpose is" and "God would XXX" and so forth.

But. If god wasn't so maliciously evil (or incompetent) then what mere human failing could be Greater than god's ability to communicate effectively?

You keep putting the blame on fallible humans.

Blame The Victim.

That's immoral on the face of it.

The god you believe in is nothing short of a small minded, petty tyrant.

A Bully.

That is not something you want in an All Powerful Being...

 

[leov]

I can say, without reservation, that no god(s) have ever been in contact with me, either now, or when I was younger and far more gullible.

As you say-- it would be obvious, no? Such a Supreme Being and all of that.

So, again, the god you believe in? Is either:

1) Maliciously evil, deliberately being obtuse
2) Maliciously incompetent, incapable of convincing the majority of the planet
3) Indifferent -- who cares, then?
4) Doesn't exist.

(or 5) not all that powerful in the first place-- in which case, who cares? )

(( there are more options, but I cant' be bothered... ))

I know that you were not contacted or just did not notice.
"evil" God? How do you know that?

 

[leov]

1) claims about god cannot proceed, until you show that god existing is even possible
2) Once you show, above, you then need to show that god or gods exist
3) THEN and ONLY THEN may you proceed to make claims about 'god', such as YOU claiming to "know" what "God's purpose is" and "God would XXX" and so forth.

But. If god wasn't so maliciously evil (or incompetent) then what mere human failing could be Greater than god's ability to communicate effectively?

You keep putting the blame on fallible humans.

Blame The Victim.

That's immoral on the face of it.

The god you believe in is nothing short of a small minded, petty tyrant.

A Bully.

That is not something you want in an All Powerful Being...

Yes, it can proceed just may be lacking your participation.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Right, you feel that God does not exist but the truth is you don't have any evidence that support this.

I feel that I don't have any good reasons/evidence to believe that god(s) exist. The same way that I don't have any good reasons/evidence to believe that unicorns exist.

Do you have some?

In order to believe a thing exists, evidence indicating said thing exists is required.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yes, it looks look like many of them simply prefer the amorality and lack of responsibility philosophical Atheism seems to afford them.

No, that's just what some theists like to tell themselves, apparently.

There's nothing amoral about my life or my beliefs.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The transcendent, beginningless, spaceless, immaterial, timeless, unchanging, omnipotent, good and personal being who created the universe.

So, how do we test for that?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I know that you were not contacted or just did not notice.
"evil" God? How do you know that?

"or did not notice".

So-- either your god is grossly incapable of getting through?

Or your god is deliberately being obtuse?

Which is it?

How on earth could a mere mortal (me) be more powerful than your god's ability to communicate effectively?

Serious question.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes, it can proceed just may be lacking your participation.

Nope. You keep forgetting: I was a Genuine Christian for 40+ years. That's 40 years of me, participating.

So why is your god deliberately being obtuse?

Maliciousness? Or incompetence.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have faith scientific advances will continue to provide answers to our questions. <—- See what I did there?

As the link noted, Quantum theory could provide the evidence of Multiverses. At the moment, it’s just theory and hypotheses, no evidence. That said, unless you are like @Bob the Unbeliever, I doubt that you believe the Universe just magically came from nothing nor that it’s insane to even discuss the issue.

Ah, but that's based on good reason and evidence that science has lead us to the answers many times before. Which is not the same as religious faith, as most people understand it.