Bible & Critical Thinking

[Audie]

It doesn't seem like virgin girls would have a choice so that is definitely messed up. And how they knew they were virgins is also weird.
l!

Messed up, yes. Let your imagination carry you.
Days of siege and terror for the town, the sense
of coming doom.
The enemy breaks in, and the slaughter begins.
Building to building to building the blood splashed
invaders go, killing, setting fires, stealing.

AFTER killing the entire family right in front of
her terrified eyes, our 14 yr old girl is the only
one left alive.

It is not weird how they determined who is a
virgin, it is kind of obvious what they did.

All sanctioned by god. God is love.
Right. I want nothing to do with such a "faith".

 

[Samael_Khan]

Messed up, yes. Let your imagination carry you.
Days of siege and terror for the town, the sense
of coming doom.
The enemy breaks in, and the slaughter begins.
Building to building to building the blood splashed
invaders go, killing, setting fires, stealing.

AFTER killing the entire family right in front of
her terrified eyes, our 14 yr old girl is the only
one left alive.

It is not weird how they determined who is a
virgin, it is kind of obvious what they did.

All sanctioned by god. God is love.
Right. I want nothing to do with such a "faith".

I have no words for what you wrote. Can't argue with it.

Things is, I understand if a God would destroy people himself. But why get his own people to do it? Wouldn't it be traumatizing for them? Wouldn't it corrupt them knowing what we know now about the psychological affects of violence?

Also, what you wrote above is an example about the power of story. It is way more impactful than saying that God killed innocent people. And there is so much in those few sentences to pick apart and speculate on to help our minds grow. Well done.

 

[Milton Platt]

Slavery in the bible was the equivalent of maids and servants of today. People sold themselves into slavery. Also slaves had to be freed after 7 years. It isn't talking about kidnapping people and enslaving them:

Exodus 21:16
Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 24:7
If a man is caught kidnapping one of his brother Israelites and treats him as a slave or sells him, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

Although the beating of slaves is another thing altogether.

It doesn't seem like virgin girls would have a choice so that is definitely messed up. And how they knew they were virgins is also weird.

As for God killing: I actually do not have a problem with that unless he says that he won't do it and then does, making him a liar. But then a creator can even do that. A creator owns his creation and theoretically a God would own his creation and a creator has the right to do what he/she wants with it. That might even be a dilemma that we have to face if we create sentient beings ourselves in the future. I think it is also a philosophical matter of ethics.

The interest in mythology is a matter of preference anyway. It is a good way for distracting us when stuff gets too real!

"Slavery in the bible was the equivalent of maids and servants of today" Not Hardly. If you beat an employee, you go to jail. If you beat a slave and he lives for at least 2 days before dying from his injuries, it's perfectly okay (according to scripture) You cannot go to another nation today and buy a person and call them a "maid". It's called human trafficking.

"slaves had to be freed after 7 years." This applies only to slaves who were also Jews.

Exodus 21:16 I think this also applies to Jews only.

Deuteronomy 24:7 Again, slaves were bought from surrounding nations, so this does not apply. The scripture clearly tells Israel to buy their slaves from the surrounding nations which would not be "brother Israelites".

In short, the god of the bible sanctioned slavery, genocide, infanticide, human sacrifice, kidnapping (of people from other nations)

You may argue that a creator owns his creation. Does that mean he is not immoral when he does and governs immoral acts? No, he is immoral for doing so. this gives you an immoral god, You are welcome to him. He certainly isn't worthy of worship. Both you and I have higher morals.

 

[Samael_Khan]

"Slavery in the bible was the equivalent of maids and servants of today" Not Hardly. If you beat an employee, you go to jail. If you beat a slave and he lives for at least 2 days before dying from his injuries, it's perfectly okay (according to scripture) You cannot go to another nation today and buy a person and call them a "maid". It's called human trafficking.

I did mention the beating of slaves in my previous comment. I would qualify your statement and say you cannot "legally" buy a person today from another nation.

"slaves had to be freed after 7 years." This applies only to slaves who were also Jews.

I will do more research into this.

Exodus 21:16

I think this also applies to Jews only.

This quote:

Leviticus 25:42 For they are My servants, whom I freed from the land of Egypt; they may not give themselves over into servitude.—25:43 You shall not rule over him ruthlessly; you shall fear your God. 25:44 Such male and female slaves as you may have—it is from the nations round about you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 25:45You may also buy them from among the children of aliens resident among you, or from their families that are among you, whom they begot in your land. These shall become your property: 25:46 you may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property for all time. Such you may treat as slaves. But as for your Israelite kinsmen, no one shall rule ruthlessly over the other.

I think they were then able to buy slaves, but they weren't allowed to kidnap people for slavery, as the quote you are referring to doesn't specify who cannot be kidnapped.

Deuteronomy 24:7

Again, slaves were bought from surrounding nations, so this does not apply. The scripture clearly tells Israel to buy their slaves from the surrounding nations which would not be "brother Israelites".

In short, the god of the bible sanctioned slavery, genocide, infanticide, human sacrifice, kidnapping (of people from other nations)

You may argue that a creator owns his creation. Does that mean he is not immoral when he does and governs immoral acts? No, he is immoral for doing so. this gives you an immoral god, You are welcome to him. He certainly isn't worthy of worship. Both you and I have higher morals.

The Leviticus quote I wrote shows that gentile slaves are permanent slaves. So you have correctly corrected me.

I am still not sure about the kidnapping from other nations but then taking virgins could be considered doing so.

Morality is subjective. If a creator exists then he decides what morality is based on his own subjectivity and we view that as morality because he decides for us.

As for us having higher moral standards, that is based on which morality you and I follow. And I still don't know how we get to those moral standards clearly. I just seem to know what is right and wrong innately.

 

[Muffled]

Numbers 22:28-30 New International Version (NIV)
28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”

29 Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”

30 The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?”

“No,” he said.



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Genesis 38:9-10 New International Version (NIV)
9 But Onan knew that the child would not be his; so whenever he slept with his brother’s wife, he spilled his [seed] on the ground to keep from providing offspring for his brother.10 What he did was wicked in the Lord’s sight; so the Lord put him to death also.



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Question: Is Bible fundamentalism compatible with Critical Thinking?

View attachment 29961

I believe that seems like apples and oranges to me. There never is any reason to be critical of the truth. However the skills are valuable for interpretation.

 

[Muffled]

I don't see why not...it seems perfectly reasonable to me to believe that in the story about Balaam, the Lord spoke through his a$$...

It would still be true whether it were reasonable or not. I believe a reasonable approach would be that the donkey did not physically say anything but the words coming from the donkey came from God just as the burning bush didn't say anything but God spoke out of it.

 

[Muffled]

If you mean, is a literal view of the Bible consistent with critical thinking, I would say no.

I believe that would depend on whether the literal view is reasonable or not. Obviously with parables telling fictional stories one could not view those as literally happening events.

 

[Wandering Monk]

It would still be true whether it were reasonable or not. I believe a reasonable approach would be that the donkey did not physically say anything but the words coming from the donkey came from God just as the burning bush didn't say anything but God spoke out of it.

I mean, God can do anything, right? Wonder why he doesn't do those sort of things today?

 

[dybmh]

I mean, God can do anything, right? Wonder why he doesn't do those sort of things today?

"The End of Prophecy
With the passing of the last prophet, Malachi, in 3448, the 1,000-year era of prophecy came to a close. Two factors caused this cessation: first, the Jewish people were not on the exalted spiritual level required for prophets to exist. Second, prophecy functions in Eretz Israel,(and in exceptional circumstances, elsewhere) and most Jews lived outside the Land. From that point, no person would be able to proclaim, “So speaks G‑d;” those who claimed prophetic revelation were immediately recognized as frauds. However, the Jewish people were not bereft of spiritual leadership: G‑d would continue to guide Torah leaders, albeit in a more indirect manner."

hyperlink >>> chabad.org - Anshei Knesses Hagdolah

 

[siti]

I don't see why not...it seems perfectly reasonable to me to believe that in the story about Balaam, the Lord spoke through his a$$...

It would still be true whether it were reasonable or not.

Indeed!

 

[Wandering Monk]

It would still be true whether it were reasonable or not. .

What makes it true?