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Question for all religions on here

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrection because it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13).

I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.:confused:

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As a liberal I think the Bible itself lacks consistency on the issue, but considering the evidence that the Bible is a collection of multiple authors over multiple time periods why would we be surprised at the lack of consistency?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The Bible is not a history book. It is a collection of writings that have been edited, redacted and compiled by different authors. Most of the books of the Bible are not original compositions, but changed over time by different writers. The importance of the Bible is not in accurate nor consistent texts.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.:confused:

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.:confused:
 
Last edited:

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
i taste an orange and i tell you what it tastes like. Someone else tastes an orange and they describe it different. You have 3 options. Most get stuck between option 1 and 2. The 3 option is rarely explored.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
We are souls who have material experience. Life force connects soul to
physical body and animates physical body, spirit connects soul to higher worlds. Balance of soul/ spirit determines if person is earthly or heavenly tuned.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.:confused:

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

My question is this.Why in all the other passages does it sound like our being stays with the body when we die?But in Psalms 90:10.And Job 20:7-9.It doesn't.:confused:

I think it is weird that in Psalms 90:10 they say we fly away.Instead of just saying our souls fly away.:confused:
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Frank...its "life" that flies away. The older we get the more it flies....believe me!

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Yeah i know that.But if you read the above list.Never does it say we.The correct translation should be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.Because if you look at Genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.Isn't the she departing part.Like the we part in Psalms 90:10?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Yeah i know that.But if you read the above list.Never does it say we.The correct translation should be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.Because if you look at Genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.Isn't the she departing part.Like the we part in Psalms 90:10?

The "soul" is representative of "life" itself. A soul can only live whilst it breathes. Substituting the word "life" for "soul" and "breath for "spirit", in these scriptures tells the story. Why are you confused? There is no immortal soul that is separate from the body. Contrary to popular belief, the soul and the spirit are not the same.
The Bible does not teach that we have a soul that merely inhabits the body. We are the soul.....which always refers to a living, breathing creature.
 

Diamond

Member
The "soul" is representative of "life" itself. A soul can only live whilst it breathes. Substituting the word "life" for "soul" and "breath for "spirit", in these scriptures tells the story. Why are you confused? There is no immortal soul that is separate from the body. Contrary to popular belief, the soul and the spirit are not the same.
The Bible does not teach that we have a soul that merely inhabits the body. We are the soul.....which always refers to a living, breathing creature.
I disagree, I believe that the soul lives on when we die,it leaves the body. we are all energy and energy doesn't stop it just transforms.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Yeah i know that.But if you read the above list.Never does it say we.The correct translation should be our souls fly away.Not we fly away.Because if you look at Genesis 35:18 it says her soul was departing.Not she was departing.Isn't the she departing part.Like the we part in Psalms 90:10?

Diamond.Can you reply to my quote right above this?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I disagree, I believe that the soul lives on when we die,it leaves the body. we are all energy and energy doesn't stop it just transforms.

This is a belief that permeates almost all religions, both Christian and non-Christian.....but it finds no support at all in the Bible. The ancient Jews had no belief in an afterlife at all. The only disembodied spirits that the Bible mentions are angels. Faithful angels always materialized in human form to bring their messages to God's servants, but demons had that ability taken away from them after the flood of Noah's day when they abused it. So who are these spirits that pretend to be our dead loved ones?

When you consider that this is basically saying that spiritism is OK because these are just the spirits of dead people, then it must be all right...but is that true?

God's law to Israel was....
“When you come into the land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominable practices of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer 11 or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead, 12 for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord. And because of these abominations the Lord your God is driving them out before you." (Deuteronomy 18:9-12 ESV)

If all spiritistic practices were forbidden by God, then calling them "abominations" indicates that these things were not just 'bad' but had to be avoided at all costs, because it meant putting oneself under the control of the demons.

Why would God forbid us to inquire of our dead loved ones whom we could freely communicate with in life, but not after death? It was because this is not who we are talking to. Demons masquerade as the dead to promote the first lie that the devil told in Eden...."you surely will not die". Yet God told Adam that they would simply return to the dust. There is no mention of an afterlife or an immortal soul in Genesis or any other Bible book. Satan has lied to mankind from the beginning, making suggestions and offering all manner of deception to gain his converts.....if we fall for them by going against what God says, then we place ourselves in harm's way. We will end up paying for it with our lives, according to the Bible.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As a liberal I think the Bible itself lacks consistency on the issue, but considering the evidence that the Bible is a collection of multiple authors over multiple time periods why would we be surprised at the lack of consistency?
Its like reading poetry written thousands of years ago.
 
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