Need help.Confused.Need jw help.

[Frank Goad]

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrection because it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13).

I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

 

[Frank Goad]

Why no reply?

 

[Frank Goad]

Where is Deeje?When you need her?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Maybe visit a Kingdom Hall yourself?

 

[Frank Goad]

Maybe visit a Kingdom Hall yourself?

The only reason i haven't yet.Is i am methodist .But i go back and forth.Because i don't know if i buy the idea about the soul or not.

 

[Frank Goad]

Any jw on here that could help?

 

[Deeje]

.
A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

It is easy to read these scriptures if you don't have confusing meanings and doctrines in your head.

The "spirit" in man is the breath that keeps him alive. The man Adam "became" a soul when God started him breathing.

The "soul" is the person....all of who they are. It is synonymous with life.....human life.

A soul without spirit is a dead body.

Psalm 90:10 says...
"The span of our life is 70 years,
Or 80 if one is especially strong.

But they are filled with trouble and sorrow;
They quickly pass by, and away we fly."

Life passes quickly and the older you get, the faster it goes, then your like just slips away.

Cross references to that scripture are Psalm 78:29
"For he remembered that they were flesh,
A wind that blows past and does not return."

James 4:13-14
"Come, now, you who say: “Today or tomorrow we will travel to this city and will spend a year there, and we will do business and make some profit,” 14 whereas you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. For you are a mist that appears for a little while and then disappears."

If you understand that there is not a single reference to an immortal soul in the Bible then those scriptures do not become confusing. They were never written with an immortal soul in mind. The scriptures liken our life to the wind or a mist that is here today and gone tomorrow. It was never supposed to be like that.....our lives were meant to go on forever with no pain, suffering or death. Those things will be gone in Jehovah's new world. (Revelation 21:2-4)

 

[Frank Goad]

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

Can you answer this part of my post too.Deeje?

 

[Frank Goad]

Any other jw on here besides Deeje?That could help?With the post right before this one?

 

[sooda]

The only reason i haven't yet.Is i am methodist .But i go back and forth.Because i don't know if i buy the idea about the soul or not.

Maybe this will help.

1. What Is The Doctrine of Soul Sleep? Is It Biblical?
   www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/what-is-the...
   Soul sleep is the concept that when someone dies, their soul goes to sleep in a sort of suspended animation. The person has no awareness, consciousness, nor unconscious activity. Instead, they are “asleep” and waiting for the day when they wake up. There are few denominations that believe this ...
   
   
2. Is Soul Sleep Biblical? - Refute It!
   www.refuteit.com/soul-sleep.html
   To be more exact, the modern soul sleep movement is the result of the Millerites, a movement that began with William Miller in 1833.William Miller was a Baptist lay preacher that believed, through his studies of the Book of Daniel, and his use of the Karaite Jewish calendar, that Yeshua (Jesus) would return between 1843-1844.
   

 

[Cooky]

Maybe this will help.

To be more exact, the modern soul sleep movement is the result of the Millerites, a movement that began with William Miller in 1833.William Miller was a Baptist lay preacher that believed, through his studies of the Book of Daniel, and his use of the Karaite Jewish calendar, that Yeshua (Jesus) would return between 1843-1844.

 

[Cooky]

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrection because it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13).

I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

Don't look to the bible for answers to all the questions of life. It was never meant to be all encompassing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A Need for Consistency
As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:
Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."
1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."
Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."
Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."
Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."
The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.
Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?
Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrection because it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.
Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13).
As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:
Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."
1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."
Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."
Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."
Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."
Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.
Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10
If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

Often 'soul ' in Scripture I find stands for one's life.
Adam was Not a living soul before God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7
At death Adam became a dead soul or a life-less soul.
Even gospel writer Luke wrote the soul can be destroyed at Acts of the Apostles 3:23.
So, when one's soul departs means one's life has departed.
That is why the dead know nothing - John 11:11-14; Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Thus, one's spirit (it) as per Ecclesiastes 12:7 returns to God who gave "it".
Returns the same way a foreclosed house returns to the owner.
The house does Not move or go anywhere but any future prospect for the house lies in the owner's hands.
Since one's spirit (it) is neuter then it is Not the person.
A person's spirit, or God's spirit (Psalms 104:30), is a neuter "it" - Numbers 11:17; Numbers 11:25
Notice where we find God's spirit located at Job 27:3 ___________________

 

[Maximilian]

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

The above passages are consistent because they mention either the spirit or soul. We should expect all passages about death to follow the same design, yet we do not see this in two favorite proof texts against soul sleep. In Luke 23:43, for example, Jesus does not tell the thief that his soul will be with Jesus. Paul also ignores this pattern because he does not say his soul will be with Christ in Philippians 1:23. These two texts are clearly different from passages that emphasize death.

Instead, Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 resemble Scriptures that emphasize the resurrection. Numerous passages say we will be with Christ when He returns (e.g. John 5:28-29, 6:39-40, 44, 54, 11:24, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, Colossians 3:4, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17). Why are Luke 23:43 and Philippians 1:23 different from these other texts?

Soul sleep follows a consistent pattern of interpretation. When the passage does not mention spirit or soul, it talks about the whole person. In Luke 23:43, Jesus makes the promise that day about the resurrection; in Philippians 1:23, Paul ignores the time of unconsciousness between death and resurrection because it is irrelevant. These two inconclusive passages should not be overemphasized at the expense of numerous other verses that support soul sleep.

Traditionalists are very subjective and inconsistent when they interpret these passages. If the passage could support conditionalism, they insist it is only talking about the body; if the passage could support continued consciousness, they insist it is talking about the soul outside the body. Since their minds are already made up, God's Word is of no effect (Mark 7:13).

I found all this on: 7. THE CASE FOR CONSCIOUS BELIEVERS

A Need for Consistency

As pointed out in Chapter Four, when Scripture talks about departure of the spirit or soul, we see that the essence of our being stays with the body. Examples given were:

Genesis 35:18 says, "her soul was departing," not "she was departing."

1 Kings 17:21-22 says, "the child's soul came back to him," not "the child came back."

Psalm 146:4 says, "his spirit departs, he returns to the earth." It does not say "he departs, his body returns to the earth."

Luke 8:55 says, "her spirit returned and she awoke," not "she returned and awoke."

Acts 20:10 says, "his soul is still in him," not "he is still in his body."

Psalms 90:10 says when we die we fly away.Not just that our soul flies away.

Also in Job 20:7-9 it says when a man dies he flys away like a dream.Which is similar to Psalms 90:10

I am confused.

If you look.It sounds like Psalms 90:10 sounds literal.While Job 20:7-9 sounds figurative.

Have you seen this deep dive into the Hebrew term neʹphesh and the Greek word psy·kheʹ which are rendered "soul" in English?