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Father Knows Best Conservatism Trumps Conservative Policy

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Amash wasn't ostracized by his Freedom Caucus colleagues -- and the broader GOP -- for abandoning the party on principle. (As I noted above, he is one of the most conservative members of Congress year after year.) Instead, he was driven from the Freedom Caucus because he voiced a dissenting opinion about Trump.
I agree.

In the strict father family, father knows best. He knows right from wrong and has the ultimate authority to make sure his children and his spouse do what he says, which is taken to be what is right. ... When his children disobey, it is his moral duty to punish them painfully enough so that, to avoid punishment, they will obey him (do what is right) and not just do what feels good.
That article was very accurate to me. I also agreed with the direct causation vs systemic causation part of his article.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Sadly, no one IN this neo-conservative cluster___ cares. It's the party of "I WANT IT and to hell with everyone else!"
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Sadly, no one IN this neo-conservative cluster___ cares. It's the party of "I WANT IT and to hell with everyone else!"

Actually, that's what I see about the left.

It's all about "I WANT" the government to pay for everything, to give me free education, to make sure I have a nice place to live, free internet and free phones.

And to hell with the people who actually end up having to pay for it.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Sadly, no one IN this neo-conservative cluster___ cares. It's the party of "I WANT IT and to hell with everyone else!"

I would feel so much better about the future of
the USA if it seemed as if anyone in politics
knew wtf it means to be a fiduciary and acted
like one.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Actually, that's what I see about the left.

It's all about "I WANT" the government to pay for everything, to give me free education, to make sure I have a nice place to live, free internet and free phones.

And to hell with the people who actually end up having to pay for it.

That is a characterization of the left as nurturing mother which is what the left espouses on an unconscious cognitive level.

But when it comes to the Republicans leaving behind their platform in favor of a candidate it seems to be to underscore what this cognitive scientist said three years ago.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I agree.

That article was very accurate to me. I also agreed with the direct causation vs systemic causation part of his article.

Lakoff also talks about Enlightenment Rationalism of the Left vs a metaphoric morality (though often taken as literalism) on the part of the right. Lakoff was a pioneer in the understanding of the basis of language as a development of metaphors of bodily and physical existence. Enlightenment rationalism puts knowledge more into a public process of comparison, argument, reason while metaphor is intuitive, irrational (all metaphors have restricted scopes of rational applicability) and are more unconscious even as they are meaningful.

The former knowledge requires more mental effort to achieve validation as truth while the latter is often a poetic appeal to the sensibilities of the human imagination. Selective choice of metaphor allows speakers to reach deeply and directly into the psyches of their audience and avoid the toil of more rational discussion.

The strict father frame works so well here as it allows the audience to delegate a great deal of personal effort to achieve a socially acceptable order. Along with this comes an unfortunate side effect of simplistic, non-systemic thinking which is, perhaps, a challenge that even our languages need to overcome.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Actually, that's what I see about the left.

It's all about "I WANT" the government to pay for everything, to give me free education, to make sure I have a nice place to live, free internet and free phones.

And to hell with the people who actually end up having to pay for it.

Stay out of public parks/libraries and off of public roads then, and don't dare call the fire or police dept.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Stay out of public parks/libraries and off of public roads then, and don't dare call the fire or police dept.

Those who pay for public libraries and parks, use the roads and the fire/police departments also are able to USE them.

I, however, who through my taxes, etc., PAY for stuff like 'Obama phones" and "Obamacare," and Section 8 housing and the proposed free health care for illegal immigrants and that free internet...don't get to use any of that.

In fact, my son pointed out to me that the California proposal now being touted about giving 'undocumented aliens' or elegal aliens free health care (medical) involves raising HIS taxes to pay for it, and he can't afford the $500 per month premium he's paying for his health insurance.

Pay for libraries and parks and roads and first responder services? Of course. WE CAN CALL 911 when we need help.

But paying for services for illegal aliens that we can't afford ourselves, or have access to when we DO pay for them?

Not the same thing.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Actually, that's what I see about the left.

It's all about "I WANT" the government to pay for everything, to give me free education, to make sure I have a nice place to live, free internet and free phones.

And to hell with the people who actually end up having to pay for it.
That is not what "the left" wants. What it wants, generally speaking, is for our society to be organized in such a way that everyone gets an equal chance at life, liberty, security, and happiness, as the founders claimed to be their purpose of their creating a new nation and instituting a new government. That we, now the wealthiest nation on the planet, not allow our own citizens to suffer and die simply because saving them does not profit the wealthy and powerful elite (and their greedy, selfish supporters) that are currently making all the decisions. That a secure, well educated populace benefits everyone, and advances the cause of humanity far more than a Darwinistic, 'every-man-for-himself' cluster of dumb animals calling themselves a nation of men.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I would feel so much better about the future of
the USA if it seemed as if anyone in politics
knew wtf it means to be a fiduciary and acted
like one.
That is not possible in a culture and economic system that treats greed as a virtue. Every decision we make in this country is being made based on it's profitability to the wealthy investor class, because they have all the decision-making power. And until we face this elemental ideological failure of capitalism, we are doomed to live with it's brutality and corruption.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
That is not what "the left" wants. What it wants, generally speaking, is for our society to be organized in such a way that everyone gets an equal chance at life, liberty, security, and happiness, as the founders claimed to be their purpose of their creating a new nation and instituting a new government. That we, now the wealthiest nation on the planet, not allow our own citizens to suffer and die simply because saving them does not profit the wealthy and powerful elite (and their greedy, selfish supporters) that are currently making all the decisions. That a secure, well educated populace benefits everyone, and advances the cause of humanity far more than a Darwinistic, 'every-man-for-himself' cluster of dumb animals calling themselves a nation of men.
Someone recently pointed out to me that the American pledge of allegiance contains the phrase “with liberty and justice for all”. These days it seems that “justice for all” is a radical leftist position.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Sadly, no one IN this neo-conservative cluster___ cares. It's the party of "I WANT IT and to hell with everyone else!"
It's uncannily similar, if not spot on with another major political party I've been hearing about.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Someone recently pointed out to me that the American pledge of allegiance contains the phrase “with liberty and justice for all”. These days it seems that “justice for all” is a radical leftist position.

Well, if ya means "social justice" as pursued by
the white saviour industrial complex, well, that
may not be what "liberty and justice for all"
was intended to mean.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
That is not possible in a culture and economic system that treats greed as a virtue. Every decision we make in this country is being made based on it's profitability to the wealthy investor class, because they have all the decision-making power. And until we face this elemental ideological failure of capitalism, we are doomed to live with it's brutality and corruption.

Would you describe capitalism as practiced in Taiwan
in these terms, or are you just criticizing America?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Trump clearly is neither an economic nor a political conservative, but it seems that so many in his base really do not understand these concepts.

I was listening to George Will yesterday being interviewed, and he has left the Republican Party because he says it no long represents those values that he personally cherishes as a conservative.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
That is not what "the left" wants. What it wants, generally speaking, is for our society to be organized in such a way that everyone gets an equal chance at life, liberty, security, and happiness, as the founders claimed to be their purpose of their creating a new nation and instituting a new government. That we, now the wealthiest nation on the planet, not allow our own citizens to suffer and die simply because saving them does not profit the wealthy and powerful elite (and their greedy, selfish supporters) that are currently making all the decisions. That a secure, well educated populace benefits everyone, and advances the cause of humanity far more than a Darwinistic, 'every-man-for-himself' cluster of dumb animals calling themselves a nation of men.

Equality of outcome rather than equality of opportunity.

Look at the societies that have tried this.

It
Does
not
work.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Would you describe capitalism as practiced in Taiwan
in these terms, or are you just criticizing America?
Capitalism, as an economic system, by definition, gives "control of the means of production" (i.e., control of all aspects of commerce and economic well-being) to the capital investor. Who, naturally, seeks only to maximize the profit returned on the capital invested. It is literally; systematized greed. People who already have more money than they need are being given the power to use that money to capture even more money that they don't need, by taking it away from those who don't have enough, or just barely have enough to live on. It empowers greed. It rewards greed. It justifies greed as the primary motive of every commercial interaction turning commerce into exploitation.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Capitalism, as an economic system, by definition, gives "control of the means of production" (i.e., control of all aspects of commerce and economic well-being) to the capital investor. Who, naturally, seeks only to maximize the profit returned on the capital invested. It is literally; systematized greed. People who already have more money than they need are being given the power to use that money to capture even more money that they don't need, by taking it away from those who don't have enough, or just barely have enough to live on. It empowers greed. It rewards greed. It justifies greed as the primary motive of every commercial interaction turning commerce into exploitation.

We've heard your rather extreme ideological position*
before, and you did not address what I asked, but
never mind.

Being from a place that was among the crown jewels
of the the British Empire, and one who has benefited
greatly from their having been there (they still are, of
course, in a corporate sort of way) I have my own
views on colonialism, capitalism, and what you
call "greed".

Far fewer have emigrated to the country of their
colonial oppressors from HK than have from
other places, but of course, Britain betrayed
trust by not permitting many to do so in the
years leading up to July 1 1997.

And, I guess, fewer had as much reason to,
than from say, Pakistan or other S Asian,
African, or middle eastern "countries". Quotation
marks supplied re the borders being drawn
by colonial powers.

I suppose you could say with no small truth that
it is capitalism that made America and Europe
rich by draining off the world's resources and
leaving other peoples in chaos and poverty.

I guess i dont see capitalism as an ideology,
but as an organization tool, one among others
that could have been used. The Spaniards who
stole all that gold and silver were not capitalists.

Do you have some system in mind that will provide
what people need, keep the earth from dying, and
so forth?

*greed as the primary motive of every commercial "

"all aspects of commerce and economic well-being"

ETA- do not look for what is not there, some specific
point being made. :D
 
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