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Atheists, Humanists - a verse for you!!

qaz

Member
What if Paul believed in a God of Evolution and judgment simply meant ones own value-moral assessment of ones life at its end which was dictated not by a card-carrying God but the amoral whim of chance and the individuals propensity to survive any given circumstance?
easy target. christian metaphysics was laughable even for late-hellenistic athenians, although they already got used to the wretchedness of schools such as cynicism or "middle-platonism", and had become themselves no more than a pale shadow of what their fathers were.
christianity, as jesus says, is a belief for the "poor in spirit", that is the opposite of the ancient greek psychological type.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Romans 2:9-16

There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also Greek. For God shows no partiality. All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not for the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law but doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that the law is written in their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all. NRSV

Takaway: Everyone will be judged by their own values.

I think that's a verse/passage for Christians. We know this will occur but atheists wouldn't deign to respond... it's beneath them, don't you know, to consider that their secret thoughts will encounter judgment.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Everybody alive is conscious.
I think I know what you mean. But it seems like some people operate on auto-pilot, seek comfort, and react to each situation based on instinct.

Reacting on instinct is sincere, but lacks awareness ( consciousness ) ?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Romans 2:9-16

There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also Greek. For God shows no partiality. All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not for the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law but doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that the law is written in their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all. NRSV

Takaway: Everyone will be judged by their own values.
God doesn't need to do me any favors. If He doesn't like the fact that I never believed in Him, He can stuff it. If He ends up liking what I did throughout my life, why should I care? Seriously, why? He was never there during all the time I did it. It would be like your father leaving you while you were a baby, only to show up just before you were about to die and say "I'm proud of you, son." At that moment, why on Earth would you give a crap? If He exists, God holds no promise of happiness nor joy to those with a critical mind... only questions and confusion.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
The Bible actually describes sin as lawlessness...

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 1John 3:4
Lawlessness is manifestation of ignorance. From Strong's:
"ἁμαρτία, (ας, ἡ (from 2 aorist ἁμαρτεῖν, as ἀποτυχία from ἀποτύχειν), a failing to hit the mark (see ἁμαρτάνω. In Greek writings (from Aeschylus and Thucydides down). 1st, an error of the understanding (cf. Ackermann, Das Christl. im Plato, p. 59 Anm. 3 (English translation (S. R. Asbury, 1861), p. 57 n. 99)). 2nd, a bad action, evil deed. In the N. T. always in an ethical sense, and"
an error of the understanding - ignorance of not knowing how to do it right.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Romans 2:9-16

There will be anguish and distress for everyone who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also Greek. For God shows no partiality. All who have sinned apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not for the hearers of the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but the doers of the law but doers of the law who will be justified. When Gentiles, who do not possess the law, do instinctively what the law requires, these, though not having the law, are a law to themselves. They show that the law is written in their hearts, to which their own conscience also bears witness; and their conflicting thoughts will accuse or perhaps excuse them on the day when, according to my gospel, God, through Jesus Christ, will judge the secret thoughts of all. NRSV

Takaway: Everyone will be judged by their own values.

Why would you have any reason to believe that an atheist would be swayed by a quote from a book of mythologies?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Sin = ignorance.


Really? So my ignorance concerning exactly how nuclear fission works is somehow a sin on my part? And your ignorance concerning how many brothers and sisters I have is a sin on your part?

Okay... but that's a VERY bizarre definition of sin.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Really? So my ignorance concerning exactly how nuclear fission works is somehow a sin on my part? And your ignorance concerning how many brothers and sisters I have is a sin on your part?

Okay... but that's a VERY bizarre definition of sin.
Look up Greek.
"an error of the understanding "ἁμαρτία, (ας, ἡ (from 2 aorist ἁμαρτεῖν, as ἀποτυχία from ἀποτύχειν), a failing to hit the mark (see ἁμαρτάνω. In Greek writings (from Aeschylus and Thucydides down). 1st, an error of the understanding (cf. Ackermann, Das Christl. im Plato, p. 59 Anm. 3 (English translation (S. R. Asbury, 1861), p. 57 n. 99)). 2nd, a bad action, evil deed. In the N. T. always in an ethical sense, and


It is in the root ignorance of real True God. Ignorance is fixable by obtaining of knowledge.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Look up Greek.
"an error of the understanding "ἁμαρτία, (ας, ἡ (from 2 aorist ἁμαρτεῖν, as ἀποτυχία from ἀποτύχειν), a failing to hit the mark (see ἁμαρτάνω. In Greek writings (from Aeschylus and Thucydides down). 1st, an error of the understanding (cf. Ackermann, Das Christl. im Plato, p. 59 Anm. 3 (English translation (S. R. Asbury, 1861), p. 57 n. 99)). 2nd, a bad action, evil deed. In the N. T. always in an ethical sense, and


It is in the root ignorance of real True God. Ignorance is fixable by obtaining of knowledge.

I understand that ignorance is a error or lack of understanding. What I'm asking you is how does your lack of knowledge concerning how many siblings I have constitute a 'sin'?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Not at all, Biblical term that means not just transgression but goes much deeper .
E.g. Jesus takes your sins away - takes your ignorance , opens your eyes.

Your post was very shallow, and did not go deeper, and ignorance in and of itself is not a sin.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
Really? So my ignorance concerning exactly how nuclear fission works is somehow a sin on my part? And your ignorance concerning how many brothers and sisters I have is a sin on your part?

Okay... but that's a VERY bizarre definition of sin.
I think according to scriptures sin concerns the breaking and/or falling short of God's standards with regard to moral issues, right or wrong behavior, not the amount of knowledge or information one has or lacks on various other subjects.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
God doesn't need to do me any favors. If He doesn't like the fact that I never believed in Him, He can stuff it. If He ends up liking what I did throughout my life, why should I care? Seriously, why? He was never there during all the time I did it. It would be like your father leaving you while you were a baby, only to show up just before you were about to die and say "I'm proud of you, son." At that moment, why on Earth would you give a crap? If He exists, God holds no promise of happiness nor joy to those with a critical mind... only questions and confusion.
Yet, what if God is there sustaining your every breath and heartbeat?
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
I think according to scriptures sin concerns the breaking and/or falling short of God's standards with regard to moral issues, right or wrong behavior, not the amount of knowledge or information one has or lacks on various other subjects.

That's always been my understanding. Yet leov claimed that sin = ignorance
 
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