It's A BABY after all...

[Kenny]

23 weeks, smallest baby yet weighing in at 8.6 oz.

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

San Diego hospital announces birth of world’s tiniest surviving baby

Congratulation to the mom and dad!



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[PoetPhilosopher]

That's amazing! I'll have to check out the article. Is the baby healthy?

 

[osgart]

That really makes me think about the sanctity of life, and the great responsibility of being pregnant.

I find abortions to be tragic circumstances. And i have always thought 12 weeks is long enough to decide on it.

But there is a lot of precarious situations that could arise

 

[Kenny]

That's amazing! I'll have to check out the article. Is the baby healthy?

Yes - today it is 5lbs. Born in December - parents gave permission to let them go public!

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

23 weeks, smallest baby yet weighing in at 8.6 oz.

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

San Diego hospital announces birth of world’s tiniest surviving baby

Congratulation to the mom and dad!



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If you're not interested in good faith discussion, why bother posting? Where has anyone here argued a 23 week foetus is "just a mass of brainless cells"?

Hmmm? Go on, show us a single example of anyone saying that?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

23 weeks, smallest baby yet weighing in at 8.6 oz.

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

San Diego hospital announces birth of world’s tiniest surviving baby

Congratulation to the mom and dad!



\View attachment 29497

23 weeks? You realize that that is nearly 6 months, correct? As @Kangaroo Feathers pointed out, no one is arguing that a 6 month old fetus is a "mass of brainless cells." Yet you seem to make no distinction between an abortion at 2 weeks and an abortion at 23 weeks. In one case, the fetus is a mass of brainless cells, and in another case it is not. Yet you seem to not make a distinction in your position with regard to abortions.

 

[dianaiad]

23 weeks? You realize that that is nearly 6 months, correct? As @Kangaroo Feathers pointed out, no one is arguing that a 6 month old fetus is a "mass of brainless cells." Yet you seem to make no distinction between an abortion at 2 weeks and an abortion at 23 weeks. In one case, the fetus is a mass of brainless cells, and in another case it is not. Yet you seem to not make a distinction in your position with regard to abortions.

Question.

Where is the magic line at which a 'mass of brainless cells" with the potential to be, well, pretty much anything, is suddenly something more, something like, oh, a baby?

Because I sure as heck don't know what that line is, and y'know what?

Neither does any scientist.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Question.

Where is the magic line at which a 'mass of brainless cells" with the potential to be, well, pretty much anything, is suddenly something more, something like, oh, a baby?

Because I sure as heck don't know what that line is, and y'know what?

Neither does any scientist.

Good. I'm glad to see that you admit that no one knows where this "magic line" is. So why do you "pro-life" folks try to impose your own arbitrary conception of where the line should be on everyone else?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Good. I'm glad to see that you admit that no one knows where this "magic line" is. So why do you "pro-life" folks try to impose your own arbitrary conception of where the line should be on everyone else?

The "bright line" argument is a fallacy, a form of the false dichotomy. Sure, no one can draw a bright line when a foetus becomes a baby, but there sure is a spectrum with points where we can make clear distinctions.

No one can draw a bright line at the point blue becomes yellow, but we can certainly draw clear lines at the points when they unquestionably ARE blue or yellow. If blue is foetus, yellow is baby and x is time, it's simple enough to draw the line in the blue section, and leave the green as safety margin.

Of course, this simple arrangement doesn't appeal to those of a dichotomous tribal mindset where everything is either mandatory or forbidden, either/or, and nuance is alien.

 

[dianaiad]

Good. I'm glad to see that you admit that no one knows where this "magic line" is. So why do you "pro-life" folks try to impose your own arbitrary conception of where the line should be on everyone else?

That's the question, isn't it?

You are imposing your opinion on everybody else, after all.

But there IS such a line, y'know. It is that instant where the DNA from mother and father combine to create that unique individual that WILL, if it does not die first (or isn't killed, whatever) become a human adult with the DNA it had from the instant of its....conception.

THAT is the only line that medical science can point to at which 'potential' becomes 'actuality."

Any other 'line' is opinion, subjective, political, arbitrary, ...and rather self serving.

But feel free to show me any other line that can be drawn, where before that point it was 'only potential,' or 'just a blob of cells' and an instant later is a human being, a human individual...a baby.

G'head. Good luck with that. Oh. it can't be cultural, or just your opinion. Support your 'line' with science, please. Real, medical, incontrovertible science: a point that can't be argued with. You know...like the temperature at which water boils at sea level? Something inarguable. Here it is a human being. A Microsecond ago it wasn't. A line that cannot be changed by passing a law or changing cultural more's.

Like I said. Good luck with that.

In fact, it was the absolute impossibility of finding that point that solidified my stand on abortion.

 

[Sunstone]

That's amazing! I'll have to check out the article. Is the baby healthy?

You can Google the science yourself, but premature babies tend to go on to have numerous challenges in life that full-term children don't. Everything from physical health to intellectual issues. Cruel as it sounds, there's a trade-off to the heroic efforts made to save premature babies. I have no opinion about whether such efforts are wise or not, but I think people ought to be better informed before they assume there are entirely a boon.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

You can Google the science yourself, but premature babies tend to go on to have numerous challenges in life that full-term children don't. Everything from physical health to intellectual issues. Cruel as it sounds, there's a trade-off to the heroic efforts made to save premature babies.

Yes. There is a success story in my family though. One of our members who is in elementary school now almost died during birth, was born prematurely. But they turned out normal and not only that, seem to have an above-average understanding of the world for their age.

 

[Sunstone]

Curious that so many of us believe individualism is all that is necessary to justify saying a life should not be aborted. I mean by that, the people who say things like "the individual starts at conception". Quite curious how the quality of a life doesn't seem to matter to them. Only the individualism of a life. Maybe that is why so many such people are unwilling to support doing things as a society to help out poorer children who have already been born.

 

[Sunstone]

Yes. There is a success story in my family though. One of our members who is in elementary school now almost died during birth, was born prematurely. But they turned out normal and not only that, seem to have an above-average understanding of the world for their age.

Yes, there are always exceptions in nature. Just not exceptions in some black and white moralities.

 

[Kenny]

If you're not interested in good faith discussion, why bother posting? Where has anyone here argued a 23 week foetus is "just a mass of brainless cells"?

Hmmm? Go on, show us a single example of anyone saying that?

Many times... But I'm not going to go back and search for it.

oops

In one case, the fetus is a mass of brainless cells, and in another case it is not.

And when does it cease being a fetus?

 

[Kenny]

Good. I'm glad to see that you admit that no one knows where this "magic line" is. So why do you "pro-life" folks try to impose your own arbitrary conception of where the line should be on everyone else?

Why do yo impose yours?

 

[ChristineM]

23 weeks, smallest baby yet weighing in at 8.6 oz.

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

San Diego hospital announces birth of world’s tiniest surviving baby

Congratulation to the mom and dad!



\View attachment 29497

Why the misrepresentation and hatred included in what is after all a wonderful event?

 

[Kenny]

Why the misrepresentation and hatred included in what is after all a wonderful event?

Hatred? Why such a extreme interpretation of such a wonderful event?

 

[ChristineM]

Hatred? Why such a extreme interpretation of such a wonderful event?

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

Ring any bells? You are using the event to proselytise for your cause

 

[Kenny]

It was supposed to be a fetus of just a mass of brainless cells, but OOPS! IT'S A BABY AFTER ALL!

Ring any bells? You are using the event to proselytise for your cause

It seemed a matter of factual representation to me with a great rejoicing moment about the baby... no hatred at all. Why are you so upset?