The path.

[Spirit of Light]

Everyone has a form of goal in life, and they do anything to get to the goal,because "that is what matter"
But so many forget to live in the present moment.

The goal is always right in front of you, but the path is the prosess of getting ridd of what is not needed to achieve the goal. When one have peeled everything away, then one see the goal clear and one are ready to grasp it, But until then the goal will not be reachable.

So a spiritual path is nothing else then peeling away attachments that is not needed. The path has its ups and downs because some attachments are more difficult to let go of.

But remember the goal is always within you. it is not something out there.

 

[Firemorphic]

Yes, the more focused and in tune one gets, the more the baggage falls away, the clearer things become (to put it simply)

 

[shunyadragon]

Everyone has a form of goal in life, and they do anything to get to the goal,because "that is what matter"
But so many forget to live in the present moment.

The goal is always right in front of you, but the path is the prosess of getting ridd of what is not needed to achieve the goal. When one have peeled everything away, then one see the goal clear and one are ready to grasp it, But until then the goal will not be reachable.

So a spiritual path is nothing else then peeling away attachments that is not needed. The path has its ups and downs because some attachments are more difficult to let go of.

But remember the goal is always within you. it is not something out there.

May add more, but initially the principle 'nothing is necessary' is an important principle in getting rid of 'what is not needed (?),' because it is very human for us to selectively determine what is and is not 'needed.' Cultural attributes are the hardest to 'get rid of.'

 

[Spirit of Light]

May add more, but initially the principle 'nothing is necessary' is an important principle in getting rid of 'what is not needed (?),' because it is very human for us to selectively determine what is and is not 'needed.' Cultural attributes are the hardest to 'get rid of.'

All physical things are not needed when it comes to enlightenment, because when we pass away, we can not takw with us any objects. so no need to cling to it. all attachments we have must be detached before enlightenment can be realised/experienced.
this was the intention of my OP sorry if that was a bit unclear

 

[dybmh]

Lots of Questions on this:

All physical things are not needed when it comes to enlightenment

What about Karma? Doesn't a person need to be free of Karma in order to reach enlightenment? Freedom from Karma comes from virtuous deeds? How can a person be virtuous while at the same time completely detached? Virtuous deeds require physical things? If so, aren't physical things needed for enlightenment?

I wonder what would happen if a person successfully detached while they still retained Karma? Maybe they couldn't detach completely? Karma would keep them chained to the material world?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Lots of Questions on this:



What about Karma? Doesn't a person need to be free of Karma in order to reach enlightenment? Freedom from Karma comes from virtuous deeds? How can a person be virtuous while at the same time completely detached? Virtuous deeds require physical things? If so, aren't physical things needed for enlightenment?

I wonder what would happen if a person successfully detached while they still retained Karma? Maybe they couldn't detach completely? Karma would keep them chained to the material world?

Karma is the result of bad deeds, when detach the comassion arise much faster because one will not accumulate karma when one do nothing wrong. Example. if we detach from anger, jealosy, greed and so on, we become peaceful within our self, and when we let go of ego/self we become fully free from anything in the physical realm.

You can still own things in this life and be enlighten, but you would no longer have any attachments to them or what they are. they only become objects that is here for a short amount of time in the human life, if we have no emotional attachments to what other say or think about us, we will not get affected by others. mind will still be still.

Virtue is about words, action and thoughts. How do you speak act or think in interaction with others. are you always helpsfull do you never say any rumors about others, do you think good about everyone around you, this is good virtue, and does not accumulate karma.

But. Just by being alive in this world accumulate karma because even enlighten beings will feel the huge amount of negative energy that human beings produce every day from bad speech, action and thoughts.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Karma is the result of bad deeds, when detach the comassion arise much faster because one will not accumulate karma when one do nothing wrong. Example. if we detach from anger, jealosy, greed and so on, we become peaceful within our self, and when we let go of ego/self we become fully free from anything in the physical realm.

You can still own things in this life and be enlighten, but you would no longer have any attachments to them or what they are. they only become objects that is here for a short amount of time in the human life, if we have no emotional attachments to what other say or think about us, we will not get affected by others. mind will still be still.

Virtue is about words, action and thoughts. How do you speak act or think in interaction with others. are you always helpsfull do you never say any rumors about others, do you think good about everyone around you, this is good virtue, and does not accumulate karma.

But. Just by being alive in this world accumulate karma because even enlighten beings will feel the huge amount of negative energy that human beings produce every day from bad speech, action and thoughts.

This implies that all karma is negative, which is not the case. Karma is merely the sum our vasanas...our actions. It can be positive, negative, or neutral.

 

[Spirit of Light]

This implies that all karma is negative, which is not the case. Karma is merely the sum our vasanas...our actions. It can be positive, negative, or neutral.

I not going to argue with you on that
But if you look at it this way, karma is negative but virtue is positive, then what i said will be correct. But yes can also see it as good karma or bad karma So both ways work

 

[shunyadragon]

All physical things are not needed when it comes to enlightenment, because when we pass away, we can not take with us any objects. so no need to cling to it. all attachments we have must be detached before enlightenment can be realised/experienced.
this was the intention of my OP sorry if that was a bit unclear

I understand, but missed the point of 'nothing is necessary,' because this not only involves material things. Attachments can be cultural, belief systems and beliefs themselves. I believe the journey enlightenment is indifferent to physical things, and it is illusive to claim that we have must be detached before enlightenment can be realised/experienced in any finality. First I consider enlightenment a journey and not something realized nor attained. This is the problem of asceticism in an attempt to be detached to achieve enlightenment, because it is a form of materialism like over emphasis and over indulgence of materialism.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Lots of Questions on this:



What about Karma? Doesn't a person need to be free of Karma in order to reach enlightenment? Freedom from Karma comes from virtuous deeds? How can a person be virtuous while at the same time completely detached? Virtuous deeds require physical things? If so, aren't physical things needed for enlightenment?

I wonder what would happen if a person successfully detached while they still retained Karma? Maybe they couldn't detach completely? Karma would keep them chained to the material world?

In my understanding, attaining pure consciousness through unconditional love and letting go of attachments destroys karma.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I understand, but missed the point of 'nothing is necessary,' because this not only involves material things. Attachments can be cultural, belief systems and beliefs themselves. I believe the journey enlightenment is indifferent to physical things, and it is illusive to claim that we have must be detached before enlightenment can be realised/experienced in any finality. First I consider enlightenment a journey and not something realized nor attained. This is the problem of asceticism in an attempt to be detached to achieve enlightenment, because it is a form of materialism like over emphasis and over indulgence of materialism.

Yes i understand you though here. You can say enlightenment is like blowing out a candle. the candle let go of the flame In my understanding the highest form of enlightenment there is a no-thingness, it is empty except for the consiousness of being.

We see the spiritual life as a path, But we actually have the answer right in front of us/within us all the time. but we clinging to the values of the human realm, of physical objects that we call. Mine. Yours. Ours. But they are only objects that come in our life because we are in physically body right now. When we die and leave the body, we can not take those things with us. they will be still in the physical world even when we are no longer here. So why cling to it?

Or the culture, we cling to it because it is how we are brought up, but if we was reborn in a different place, our culture would be different.

And in the end, Right before the moment of enlightenment can happen, we must let go of the struggle to become IT. We must just let it happen. if we cling to the thought. Oh i am so close to become enlighten, then it can never happen.

 

[dybmh]

Karma is the result of bad deeds, when detach the comassion arise much faster because one will not accumulate karma when one do nothing wrong. Example. if we detach from anger, jealosy, greed and so on, we become peaceful within our self, and when we let go of ego/self we become fully free from anything in the physical realm.

You can still own things in this life and be enlighten, but you would no longer have any attachments to them or what they are. they only become objects that is here for a short amount of time in the human life, if we have no emotional attachments to what other say or think about us, we will not get affected by others. mind will still be still.

Virtue is about words, action and thoughts. How do you speak act or think in interaction with others. are you always helpsfull do you never say any rumors about others, do you think good about everyone around you, this is good virtue, and does not accumulate karma.

But. Just by being alive in this world accumulate karma because even enlighten beings will feel the huge amount of negative energy that human beings produce every day from bad speech, action and thoughts.

In your view, does a person need to be free of ( bad ) karma to be enlightened?

 

[Spirit of Light]

In your view, does a person need to be free of ( bad ) karma to be enlightened?

Yes in my understanding one must have become free from karma to be able to become an arahant or a buddha. (ofcourse i can be wrong, and it could be possible still with a tiny bit of karma,but i can not see how that would be possible)

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

All physical things are not needed when it comes to enlightenment, because when we pass away, we can not takw with us any objects. so no need to cling to it. all attachments we have must be detached before enlightenment can be realised/experienced.
this was the intention of my OP sorry if that was a bit unclear

What is the point of enlightenment, if nothing matters.
I would suggest that it is experience and learning, and passing those on, that matters.
It is not about us, but the future beyond us, that matters most.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What is the point of enlightenment, if nothing matters.
I would suggest that it is experience and learning, and passing those on, that matters.
It is not about us, but the future beyond us, that matters most.

When i said nothing matters, it means the physical realm. the "goal" is to end samsara or rebirth cycle. And when that happens one does not get reborn in the physical realm but in one of the spiritual realms

 

[SalixIncendium]

What is the point of enlightenment, if nothing matters.
I would suggest that it is experience and learning, and passing those on, that matters.
It is not about us, but the future beyond us, that matters most.

There are those who are jivanmukta (or bodhisattva in Buddhism); enlightened ones that choose to remain is samsara for precisely this purpose.