Who understands and can explain the meaning of Romans 9:3-4?

[Amikam Israel]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

This is the correct understanding of Romans 9:3-4: Paul is saying that he wishes that he could sacrifice himself, his right to Christ's kingdom, for the sake of his brethren the Israelites:

The Israelites were adopted by God of Israel to be his chosen people (Deuteronomy 7:6).

Deuteronomy 7:6
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

The Israelites witnessed God's glory (Exodus 24:17).

Exodus 24:17
And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel.

The covenants of God of Israel belong to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 29:1) and (Hebrews 8:10):

Deuteronomy 29:1
These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.

Hebrews 8:10
[10]For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The laws of God of Israel were given to the Israelites because they are his people (Leviticus 26:46):

Leviticus 26:46
[46]These are the statutes and judgments and laws, which the LORD made between him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

The service of God of Israel through the keeping his laws, statutes, and commandments belong to the Israelites (Exodus 25:2&9) (Deuternomy 4:1):

Exodus 25:2&9
Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring me an offering: of every man that giveth it willingly with his heart ye shall take my offering. According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

The promises (Salvation, Repentance, and Forgiveness of Sins, and Kingdom of Heaven) belong to the Israelites (Isaiah 45:17), (Romans 10:1), (Jeremiah 23:6), (Romans 9:27), (Romans 11:26), (Acts 5:31) , (Acts 13:24) , (Revelation 21:12).

The promises are as follows:

Israel will be saved (all people? No, Just Israel):

Isaiah 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Romans 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

Jeremiah 23:6


In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Romans 9:27
Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Romans 11:26-27
[26]And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Repentance and Forgiveness of Sins will be given to Israel (not Christians or any other nation)

Acts 5:30-31
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 13:23-24
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Oh check that script again. Did God raise Jesus unto all nations or Christians. No, God of Israel raised Jesus unto Israel. Oh it makes so much sense now.

Who is getting the Kingdom? Christians all nations? Let's see:

Revelation 21:11-12
Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
[12]And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

The kingdom is for the twelve tribes of Israel. How do you get Christianity out of that? Are the Israelites Christians? The Israelites are the people who are the descendants of ancient Israel. The difference between Christianity and Israelites is this: Christianity is a religion, but Israelites are a chosen people

 

[Rival]

I have no idea what verse 3 is saying, but verse 4 appears to be Paul saying that his brethren are the Israelites/Jewish people, with whom the covenant was made.

 

[Brickjectivity]

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

Its ancient language. To explain it in the debate section of a forum would take a long time.

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Eight subjects, none of which are explained in any NT letter nor fully in any of the books in the canon. Maybe one problem is that we are starting in the NT? It doesn't explain things and expects familiarity. Keep in mind most churches formed before modern Archeology revealed a lot of the details of how people used to live, so a lot of hard opinions formed on this subject without adequate historical knowledge. In addition not many people consulted scholars on these subjects, so again there are lots of odd opinions out there touted as facts. All 8 subjects are alluded to in other books but not explained.

 

[Enoch07]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

*warning*

Be very careful how you interpret this scripture. Some racist people use it to put all Jewish people in a bad light, by taking it out of context.

Tread carefully.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Suggest that you read all of chapter 9 and then come back to that. Perhaps try it in several different versions? At first blush, it looks like gobbledygook to me. This will take some work. I wonder how others have interpreted it?

 

[Amikam Israel]

I have no idea what verse 3 is saying, but verse 4 appears to be Paul saying that his brethren are the Israelites/Jewish people, with whom the covenant was made.

Are you saying that Israelites and Jewish are the same people? Is there a bible verse to back up this claim?

 

[Rival]

Are you saying that Israelites and Jewish are the same people? Is there a bible verse to back up this claim?

No, Israelites are the group to whom the Torah was given and Jewish people - those of the Tribe of Judah - are the remnant currently left that we know today as Jews. By the time Paul was around the term Iudaios was in use by Greeks and Romans, as the northern tribes had been carried away and scattered by Assyria.

 

[sooda]

Romans 9:3-4 states:
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Romans 9:3 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary - Bible Tools
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/28159/eVerseID/28159
Romans 9:3 Paul felt bitter disappointment that the great majority of his fellow Jews were rejecting Christ . Not only was he willing to give his physical life for them, but he would have actually forfeited his eternal life in God's Kingdom, if necessary, to ensure the widespread conversion of the Jews.

 

[sooda]

I have no idea what verse 3 is saying, but verse 4 appears to be Paul saying that his brethren are the Israelites/Jewish people, with whom the covenant was made.

Paul is saying that he would give his life AND his eternal life for his brethren (Jews) to accept the Christ.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Suggest that you read all of chapter 9 and then come back to that. Perhaps try it in several different versions? At first blush, it looks like gobbledygook to me. This will take some work. I wonder how others have interpreted it?

Paul is emphasizing that all these things belong to Israel not any other nation. Why is that gobbledygook to you?

 

[Rival]

Paul is saying that he would give his life AND his eternal life for his brethren (Jews) to accept the Christ.

I am so useless with and ignorant of Paul, thank G-d, and this makes little sense without context.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Romans 9:3 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary - Bible Tools
https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Bible.show/sVerseID/28159/eVerseID/28159
Romans 9:3 Paul felt bitter disappointment that the great majority of his fellow Jews were rejecting Christ . Not only was he willing to give his physical life for them, but he would have actually forfeited his eternal life in God's Kingdom, if necessary, to ensure the widespread conversion of the Jews.

Good explanation of Romans 9:3, but who are the Jews and why have you not interpreted verse four?

 

[sooda]

Good explanation of Romans 9:3, but who are the Jews?

Paul's brethren .. Paul was a Jew.

 

[Skwim]

.

Romans 9:2-4 Easy-to-Read Version
2 I have great sorrow and always feel much sadness 3 for my own people. They are my brothers and sisters, my earthly family. I wish I could help them. I would even have a curse on me and cut myself off from Christ if that would help them. 4 They are the people of Israel, God’s chosen children. They have the glory of God and the agreements he made between himself and his people. God gave them the Law of Moses, the Temple worship, and his promises.​

.

 

[Amikam Israel]

Paul's brethren .. Paul was a Jew.

Actually, he was not a Jew. He was an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin. Jews are of the tribe of Judah. Check Romans 11:1

 

[Amikam Israel]

No, Israelites are the group to whom the Torah was given and Jewish people - those of the Tribe of Judah - are the remnant currently left that we know today as Jews. By the time Paul was around, I believe the term Iudaios was in use by Greeks and Romans, as the northern tribes had been carried away and scattered by Assyria.

Who were the original Jews and what people living today are the remnant of Israel?

 

[Rival]

Who were the original Jews and what people living today are the remnant of Israel?

This question doesn't really make much sense. What do you mean 'original Jews'? They were the people of the Kingdom of Judah, after which their religion was named for them by others. Their modern counterparts trace their lineage back to these same people.

 

[Amikam Israel]

This question doesn't really make much sense. What do you mean 'original Jews'? They were the people of the Kingdom of Judah, after which their religion was named for them by others. Their modern counterparts trace their lineage back to these same people.

Which people living today are you referring to were able to trace their lineage and how did they do it?

 

[sooda]

Actually, he was not a Jew. He was an Israelite from the tribe of Benjamin. Jews are of the tribe of Judah. Check Romans 11:1

"Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia" (Acts 21:39 KJV)

"I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." (Romans 11:1 KJV)

Paul clearly states in the verses above that he was an Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin. But he also said that he was a Jew, that is, of Judah, which like Benjamin was one of the twelve tribes of Israel (see Children of Jacob ).

 

[Rival]

Which people living today are you referring to were able to trace their lineage and how did they do it?

With genetic sampling.

Is there anywhere you are going with this?