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If theists created concept of God,

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I never said that I am speaking on the behalf of false-theists.

Indeed, you are not. That would have been more honorable from you than what you are actually doing.

You are asking atheists to pretend that those people do not exist.

That is particularly weird because you admit yourself that they are, in fact, numerous.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
But, what is the problem with atheists ?
Theists are not forcefully imposing their ideas on atheists.
Why not Atheists stay away from Theists and all their ideas, or concepts and mind their own businesses ?


What a kind of jealous/envy is this with somebodies ideas ?

But, what is the problem with atheists ?
Theists are not forcefully imposing their ideas on atheists.
Why not Atheists stay away from Theists and all their ideas, or concepts and mind their own businesses ?


What imaginary world do you live in where theists don't attempt to forcefully impose their ideas on atheists? There are currently 13 nations in the world where being an atheist is punishable by death. There are 5 states in the USA where atheists are not allowed to run for public office. As soon as the theists stay away from us atheists with their ideas and concepts and mind their own business, wer'll be more than happy to do the same.

Is it a deal?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Than, what made atheists to oppose it ?

Answer carefully ! :)

Well, to be sure-- nobody paid any attention to the theist-- until he tried **forcing** his theism onto other people.

Then? Someone said, "prove it" ... and we've been asking for proof ever since.

So far? None has ever been forthcoming. But lots of swords-in-the-belly, and across the neck and worse, for many daring to ask for proof...
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
But, what is the problem with atheists ?
Theists are not forcefully imposing their ideas on atheists.

Absolutely false! Even in 2019, I have just read of Theistic Countries, who are murdering atheists who won't comply with the Official Theism™

For centuries, in fact, openly being an atheist, got you killed-- and your family too...

... even in the USA, it can get you so ostracized to the point, some young people commit suicide...
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I don't think any theist ever told this forcefully to any atheist, unless atheist went to ask.
If atheist don't like the idea, than why not leave it ? why jealous ? why oppose ? :)

100% false. I was told this very thing-- repeatedly-- for decades. By force, in that I had no choice but to attend...
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Who is to judge who is a false theist and who isnt?

Come to think of it, Christine, isn't the very observation that @chinu makes of his distinction between "true" and "false" theists reason enough for us atheists to both exist as such and to insist on being visible and outspoken about it?

The only other alternative that I can see is that somehow "false" theism is supposed to both be relevant and to for no clear reason be treated as not relevant anyway.

While I realize that some people do hold such an expectation, I do not think that it is defensable.

Why would a false theist use theist concepts to threaten? My guess is they are true theist taking their holy book literally... Many do

Indeed. I do not know if @chinu fully grasps that, but the difference between his "true" and "false" theists is not one that absolves theism. "False" theists are just as sincere and usually much more motivated than "true" ones... and someone must step up and challenge them to protect everyone from harm.

Apparently, if this very thread is any indication, it is too much to expect theism to contain its own excesses, and therefore it falls to non-theists to keep theists honest.

It will be a great day when that is not quite so obvious or does not make so much of a difference. But that day is not one that existed in the last millenium or so, and is not one that is about to happen right now, either.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Come to think of it, Christine, isn't the very observation that @chinu makes of his distinction between "true" and "false" theists reason enough for us atheists to both exist as such and to insist on being visible and outspoken about it?

The only other alternative that I can see is that somehow "false" theism is supposed to both be relevant and to for no clear reason be treated as not relevant anyway.

While I realize that some people do hold such an expectation, I do not think that it is defensable.



Indeed. I do not know if @chinu fully grasps that, but the difference between his "true" and "false" theists is not one that absolves theism. "False" theists are just as sincere and usually much more motivated than "true" ones... and someone must step up and challenge them to protect everyone from harm.

Apparently, if this very thread is any indication, it is too much to expect theism to contain its own excesses, and therefore it falls to non-theists to keep theists honest.

It will be a great day when that is not quite so obvious or does not make so much of a difference. But that day is not one that existed in the last millenium or so, and is not one that is about to happen right now, either.

I am not even sure what "false theism" is. The best i can imagine is that it is a personal judgement of people who worship a god in a (slightly) different way to the accuser/finger pointer.

I agree absolutely. If a "true" christian will judge and censure christians he/she considers "not true" christians then what chance have none believers got of (shall we say) equality in the eyes of the self proclaimed "true christian"
 

chinu

chinu
ACEofALLaces said:
"ESPECIALLY, if they tell you that you will go to hell and be punished mercilessly for eternity, for NOT listening".


Can't "leave" it...as "THEY" will not leave it alone..."THEY" are commissioned by their "good book", to go out and harass as many people about the "good news" as they possibly CAN.

Some are much more subtle than others....some simply continue humming some annoying little tune...and when questioned about it, (it WAS "bait", doncha know), they come back with they are singing about JEEEZUS and how much they looooove JEEZUS.

Has absolutely nothing to do with being "jealous" of them or what they believe. I personally do leave it alone and do not necessarily "oppose" it....that is, until they get in my face about it, either in person or on a forum such as this....usually with some snide innuendo...fishing for a response.

Like; one cannot be a doctor by just wearing a stethoscope,
Similarly; one cannot be a true theist by just having a "good-book"

False-Atheist,
That is only I can say here.
 

chinu

chinu
Well, that is the thing. They very often are, to the point of demanding or even just expecting reverence, privilege and even legal exception.
I suppose it may be different in your community. In many of ours there is a lot of good reason to confront and challenge theists.
Perhaps you are surrounded by False-Theists. (That is only I can say)
Because that is too much to ask - and if it were not too much, we would have no reason to ask that of atheists instead of theists, who are after all those who expect concessions from others.
Stay away from false-theists, be safe.
Honestly, I have no idea of what you mean here. I suspect that you have a conception of atheists, and of how they relate to theists, that is very unlike my own experience and conceptions.
I am in serious doubt of whether your conception is even realistic. Maybe it was taken from the Qur'an or something?
If you are Atheist. I don't force you to become Theist.
Be happy, enjoy your life.
 

chinu

chinu
Honestly, you are entirely clueless here.

Theists very often expect and even demand other people to be or pretend to be theists even when they know better.

There are many reasons to resist that. Intellectual honesty, opposition to discrimination, respect towards theism, you name it.

You really ought to be asking theists why they are so unaccepting of atheism, not the other way around.
All these demands are created by False-Theists.
 

chinu

chinu
Indeed, you are not. That would have been more honorable from you than what you are actually doing.
You are asking atheists to pretend that those people do not exist.
That is particularly weird because you admit yourself that they are, in fact, numerous.

Theist = The one who is SURE about the existence of God
Atheist = The one who DOUBTS the existence of God

Whereas,

False-Theist = The one who DOUBTS the existence of God. But, pretends to be a Theist.
False-Atheists = Is also the one who DOUBTS the existence of God. But pretends to be an Atheist.

False-Theist are the worst people on this earth.

False-Atheists are like cute children on this earth :)

Atheist are true people on this earth.

Theists are also physically present on this earth. But, are no longer resident of this earth/world.
 

chinu

chinu
My opposition to the notion that I should believe that any god or gods are real is the lack of verifiable evidence for any god or gods. I assume that it's the same reason that you lack belief in any claim that you have heard that doesn't have any verifiable evidence to support belief in it.
This means you DOUBT the existence of God, rather than SURE ?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I feel the ways and scenarios in which theists insist on trying to invoke the idea of God are what makes many atheists opposed to the ideas(s). I'm sure this differs somewhat from person to person.

But in a nutshell... theists make atheists oppose their ideas. If the theists didn't have the ideas in the first place, there would be nothing to oppose.

There are far more concrete reasons than that.

 
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