Why don’t Baha’is in forums ever talk about what their religion is really all about?

[Vinayaka]

Seriously? You call that a source?

So it's all fake. Somebody took the time to write a fake letter from the USA NSA just to fool people into thinking something different than actually is going on?

Edited ... could be seriously illegal than.

 

[Jim]

So it's all fake. Somebody took the time to write a fake letter from the USA NSA just to fool people into thinking something different than actually is going on?

I wasn’t questioning its authenticity. Actually all I wanted was the date, but now I see that was after April 21 this year, which is all I really need to know.

 

[Jim]

I've discussed with Baha'i now for at least 2 years, and I still have no idea what it's all about. I'd love to know.

Sorry, that isn’t how it looks to me, that you really want to know.

 

[shunyadragon]

There is still another thread which either was or ended in the Bahi topic, but I asked you specifically to please tell me what the faith does to help people. Your answer, paraphrased, was they are recruiting followers who can translate the bahai writings into braille for the blind. I asked, you answered. There was nothing else. So instead of throwing around nasty insults, why not take the opportunity to tell everyone what the Bahai do for betterment of the world since they would like and know that eventually everyone on the planet will some day see the light and become a follower of the one true god and the return of jesus Christ himself?

You are grossly and dishonestly misquoting me that is not what I posted. The reality is none of my posts addressed teaching.

For example: The projects for putting books into braille did not only involve the Baha'i writings, but also many other books and reading materials for the blind. Nothing in my references said anything about translating Baha'i writings to teach the blind the religion.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sorry, that isn’t how it looks to me, that you really want to know.

You're right. I actually don't want to know, as I'm totally content with my own religion. Very few people actually want to know about other people's religions. I rarely get asked any questions about my faith. I'll give you some background then so you'll have an idea why I discuss with Baha'i at all. My first post was simply a question about why Krishna was listed as a 'Manifestation' and I pointed out that it wasn't the Hindu belief. After I was told how wrong I was, it morphed into a curiousity on my part, not so much about the beliefs, but far more just about the attitude i saw in members of your faith. I had rarely encountered that sort of attitude anywhere, and was somewhat fascinated by it, sort of as an in depth case study of why people believe how they believe. One of those discussions morphed into one of the longest threads ever on RF. I can't remember even the name of it now. Mostly between myself, Adrian, Tony, and LoverofHumanity, but also Didymus, and Oldbadger.

I never did come to understand the mindset, and still don't. But it feels like it's time to withdraw from all this again. Sorry to have troubled you. It will be about my third time at withdrawing discussing with Baha'i. I guess I never learn my lesson, lol
Best wishes. Maybe in a few weeks I'll get suckered into it again.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sorry, that isn’t how it looks to me, that you really want to know.

Well, this thread does not address the question. I would advise you start a thread on topic and I will participate. I have posted what Baha'is do in the outside world on the local, national and international level.

 

[shunyadragon]

You're right. I actually don't want to know, as I'm totally content with my own religion. Very few people actually want to know about other people's religions. I rarely get asked any questions about my faith. I'll give you some background then so you'll have an idea why I discuss with Baha'i at all. My first post was simply a question about why Krishna was listed as a 'Manifestation' and I pointed out that it wasn't the Hindu belief. After I was told how wrong I was, it morphed into a curiousity on my part, not so much about the beliefs, but far more just about the attitude i saw in members of your faith. I had rarely encountered that sort of attitude anywhere, and was somewhat fascinated by it, sort of as an in depth case study of why people believe how they believe. One of those discussions morphed into one of the longest threads ever on RF. I can't remember even the name of it now. Mostly between myself, Adrian, Tony, and LoverofHumanity, but also Didymus, and Oldbadger.

I never did come to understand the mindset, and still don't. But it feels like it's time to withdraw from all this again. Sorry to have troubled you. It will be about my third time at withdrawing discussing with Baha'i. I guess I never learn my lesson, lol

Best wishes. Maybe in a few weeks I'll get suckered into it again.

Some what more honest and to the point than the sarcasm in your previous posts, but the negative insenarity continues

 

[shunyadragon]

Do they, the followers of Bahaullah like him, live in a Myth-Land? Perhaps they do.

Regards

Insulting sarcasm is not constructive in this thread nor in any of the others you post in concerning the Baha'i Faith.

 

[shunyadragon]

Too busy figuring out ways to convert maybe? When I read letters from the House of Justice, it generally says a polite thank you for the money, and then encourages more work for converting.


Subject: National Fund Goal Achieved

Dearly loved friends, On this, the 4th day of the Festival of Ridvan, we are overjoyed to announce that through the sacrifices and spiritual generosity of the American Baha’i community we have surpassed this year's National Fund goal of $38 million. Ya Baha'u'l-Abha!

This is a noteworthy advance beyond all previous years and a special token of the spiritual privilege in supporting materially the unyielding growth of Baha'u'llah's Revelation in our communities. As our beloved House of Justice exhorted in its recent Ridvan 2019 message, "And to a heart consumed with the love for Baha’u'llah, what more befitting occupation can be imagined than to seek kindred spirits, to encourage them as they enter the path of service, to accompany them as they gain experience and- perhaps the greatest joy of all- to see souls become confirmed in their faith, arise independently, and assist others on the same journey. These are among the most cherished of all moments that this transitory life affords."

This is a noteworthy advance beyond all previous years and a special token of the spiritual privilege in supporting materially the unyielding growth of Baha'u'llah's Revelation in our communities. As our beloved House of Justice exhorted in its recent Ridvan 2019 message, "And to a heart consumed with the love for Baha'u'llah, what more befitting occupation can be imagined than to seek kindred spirits, to encourage them as they enter the path of service, to accompany them as they gain experience and- perhaps the greatest joy of all- to see souls become confirmed in their faith, arise independently, and assist others on the same journey. These are among the most cherished of all moments that this transitory life affords."

With our love and utmost admiration for your work and generous support for His Cause,

Juana C. Conrad

Treasurer

National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is of the United States

Superficial dredging by quote mining.

 

[Jim]

It looks to me like all the people debating endlessly and aimlessly in Internet discussions, about religions and every other topic, are debating about Myth-Lands.

I've discussed with Baha'i now for at least 2 years, and I still have no idea what it's all about. I'd love to know.

Sorry, that isn’t how it looks to me, that you really want to know.

Well, this thread does not address the question. I would advise you start a thread on topic and I will participate. I have posted what Baha'is do in the outside world on the local, national and international level.

— But not about what the House of Justice has been promoting most of all for more than 15 years, and what Baha’i communities are doing most of all, all around the world.

I don’t see what the point would be of starting a thread about it. Anyone who wants to know could easily find out in less than half an hour. I don’t think that any amount of discussion is going to penetrate the bewildering willful ignorance that I’m seeing here. The best explanation I can think of is still that seeing the reality might spoil the RPG.

 

[shunyadragon]

— But not about what the House of Justice has been promoting most of all for more than 15 years, and what Baha’i communities are doing most of all, all around the world.

I don’t see what the point would be of starting a thread about it. Anyone who wants to know could easily find out in less than half an hour. I don’t think that any amount of discussion is going to penetrate the bewildering willful ignorance that I’m seeing here. The best explanation I can think of is still that seeing the reality might spoil the RPG.

I started the a thread on 'what Baha'is actually do, and I hope it involves a more positive exchange than the negative rhetoric that dominated this thread.

 

[wandering peacefully]

Do they, the followers of Bahaullah like him, live in a Myth-Land? Perhaps they do.

Regards

I have no idea what land Bahia live in. Doesn't most everyone live in a myth land? Do you live in a better or more realistic land?

 

[wandering peacefully]

You may be interested in this Baha'i school that was set up in Vanuatu by some Baha'is I know.

Rowhani Baha'i School - Home

Socioeconomic development in the Baha'i Faith is a work in progress in every locality where Baha'is reside.

Social Action | What Bahá’ís Do

Thank you for the links. I can't open them now because of add blocker but I will definitely look at them later or tomorrow and see what is up. I think it is great you are actually doing things to make peace instead of preaching. I think that does say a lot about a person's true intentions for seeing value in their particular belief system. We are all in this deal together. Let's all drop the my god is better than your god and you have to believe what I do or you are the enemy battle and come up with viable solutions to problems for all of humanity.

 

[siti]

Would anyone on any side of debating about the Baha’i Faith like to tell me why you persistently and stubbornly choose not to know what the Baha’i Faith of today is really all about?

I'd love to know - but Baha'is on RF (at least) persistently and stubbornly fail to tell us - they persistently and stubbornly claim that their religion is the same as the true forms of all the other religions and persistently and stubbornly refuse to see the plain truth that this is simply not the case when clear and incontrovertible evidence is presented to them; they persistently and stubbornly claim that the "heroes" of their faith were the first to say this or that and refuse to acknowledge the truth when it is clearly shown to them that some other bod had already said it decades, centuries or millennia earlier; they stubbornly and persistently reinterpret the scriptural traditions of other religions and then claim that it is the other religions that has it wrong, they stubbornly and persistently claim that Baha'u'llah had no religious leanring or access to books or scholars when this is so patently false as to reach the level of absurdity...and why do they do all this?

All I can do is guess that it is indeed something to do with what the UHJ promotes (as in this excerpt from the 2019 Ridvan letter):

"We rejoice to see that in a growing number of clusters, and in neighbourhoods and villages within them, a nucleus of friends has emerged who through action and reflection are discovering what is required, at a particular point, for the process of growth to advance in their surroundings. They are drawing on the potent instrument of the institute, through which capacity to contribute to the spiritual and material prosperity of the community is enhanced, and as they act, the number of those joining them is increasing. Naturally, conditions vary greatly from place to place, as do the characteristics of growth. But through systematic striving, everyone can make a more and more effective contribution to the work at hand. In every setting, there is pure joy in engaging other souls in meaningful and uplifting conversations that lead, whether quickly or gradually, to the stirring of spiritual susceptibilities. The brighter the flame kindled within the heart of the believer, the greater will be the force of attraction felt by those exposed to its warmth. And to a heart consumed with love for Bahá’u’lláh, what more fitting occupation can be imagined than to seek out kindred spirits, to encourage them as they enter the path of service, to accompany them as they gain experience and—perhaps the greatest joy of all—to see souls become confirmed in their faith, arise independently, and assist others on the same journey. These are among the most cherished of all the moments that this transitory life affords."
​

If you translate that into ordinary language, what it says to Baha'is is "proselytize, proselytize, proselytize...and when you've done that, proselytize some more".

It is really, in essence, not much different from this excerpt from the 2017 letter from the Governing Body to Jehovah's Witnesses (an organization which is unashamedly and overtly engaged in proselytization):

"The Governing Body is deeply touched and encouraged to see that God’s people around the world have been busier than ever as they keep pace with Jehovah’s organization. Many have moved to serve where the need is greater. Others have moved into a new avenue of service, such as a foreign-language field. Many have tried a form of witnessing that was new and unfamiliar to them. Many more have expanded their service in yet other ways..."​

I can't read that letter any other way - if that's what you mean by "wilfull ignorance" then wilfully ignorant I am. But I prefer to think I've seen right through you - I know what you're up to and you ain't gonna catch me out that easily!

What do you think it means?

 

[Woberts]

Anyone who wants to know could easily find out in less than half an hour.

Maybe if the Bahai actually did anything, we would be able to learn about it. As it stands now, there's a big building with an imposing name where old white men sit around, twiddling their thumbs and sending out letters demanding money and converts.
​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Maybe if the Bahai actually did anything, we would be able to learn about it. As it stands now, there's a big building with an imposing name where old white men sit around, twiddling their thumbs and sending out letters demanding money and converts.
​

I can't read that letter any other way - if that's what you mean by "wilfull ignorance" then wilfully ignorant I am. But I prefer to think I've seen right through you - I know what you're up to and you ain't gonna catch me out that easily!

What do you think it means?

I think it means you have the same free will I do and have to make your own choices.

We all, also have the choice to be nice to each other.

Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

Would anyone on any side of debating about the Baha’i Faith like to tell me why you persistently and stubbornly choose not to know what the Baha’i Faith of today is really all about?

I'd love to know ...

Sorry, that isn’t how it looks to me.

 

[Jim]

Would anyone on any side of debating about the Baha’i Faith like to tell me why you persistently and stubbornly choose not to know what the Baha’i Faith of today is really all about?

I'd love to know - but Baha'is on RF ...

Seriously? What a few members of a religion do and don’t do in Internet forums, is the best reason you can think of for people to debate about that religion every day for months, and make sweeping, vilifying generalizations about millions of people, without ever trying to find out what most of them are actually doing?

 

[siti]

Seriously? What a few members of a religion do and don’t do in Internet forums, is the best reason you can think of for people to debate about that religion every day for months, and make sweeping, vilifying generalizations about millions of people, without ever trying to find out what most of them are actually doing?

Well for heaven's sake, Jim, why don't you just tell us then????!!!! And I have not made "sweeping, vilifying generalizations about millions of people" - I clearly said Baha'is on RF which is a mere handful - but the only ones I have first hand experience of...and frankly it does **** me off when they make blatantly untrue statements even about their own scriptures and then fail to acknowledge the truth when it is clearly demonstrated to them. That does not cast the faith in a good light - but I recognize that they may very well not be representative of the entire body of Baha'is. But all you seem to do is bemoan the fact that nobody seems to recognize an obvious truth about the larger community of Baha'is in the real world, which truth you have so far, in several threads, failed to articulate. What am I supposed to draw from that? That you are more representative of true Baha'i faith? Well it seems like you are just doing the same as the rest - beating about the bush by dangling what looks like genuine 'spiritual food' on a proselytizer's "fishing hook" - like I said - you don't catch me that easily.

So - right - I think the time has come for you to finally reveal all - if it is not increasing the number of converts (by whatever means) - what exactly is it that the UHJ wants you all to do?

 

[shunyadragon]

I'd love to know - but Baha'is on RF (at least) persistently and stubbornly fail to tell us - they persistently and stubbornly claim that their religion is the same as the true forms of all the other religions and persistently and stubbornly refuse to see the plain truth that this is simply not the case when clear and incontrovertible evidence is presented to them; they persistently and stubbornly claim that the "heroes" of their faith were the first to say this or that and refuse to acknowledge the truth when it is clearly shown to them that some other bod had already said it decades, centuries or millennia earlier; they stubbornly and persistently reinterpret the scriptural traditions of other religions and then claim that it is the other religions that has it wrong, they stubbornly and persistently claim that Baha'u'llah had no religious leanring or access to books or scholars when this is so patently false as to reach the level of absurdity...and why do they do all this?

All I can do is guess that it is indeed something to do with what the UHJ promotes (as in this excerpt from the 2019 Ridvan letter):

"We rejoice to see that in a growing number of clusters, and in neighbourhoods and villages within them, a nucleus of friends has emerged who through action and reflection are discovering what is required, at a particular point, for the process of growth to advance in their surroundings. They are drawing on the potent instrument of the institute, through which capacity to contribute to the spiritual and material prosperity of the community is enhanced, and as they act, the number of those joining them is increasing. Naturally, conditions vary greatly from place to place, as do the characteristics of growth. But through systematic striving, everyone can make a more and more effective contribution to the work at hand. In every setting, there is pure joy in engaging other souls in meaningful and uplifting conversations that lead, whether quickly or gradually, to the stirring of spiritual susceptibilities. The brighter the flame kindled within the heart of the believer, the greater will be the force of attraction felt by those exposed to its warmth. And to a heart consumed with love for Bahá’u’lláh, what more fitting occupation can be imagined than to seek out kindred spirits, to encourage them as they enter the path of service, to accompany them as they gain experience and—perhaps the greatest joy of all—to see souls become confirmed in their faith, arise independently, and assist others on the same journey. These are among the most cherished of all the moments that this transitory life affords."
​

If you translate that into ordinary language, what it says to Baha'is is "proselytize, proselytize, proselytize...and when you've done that, proselytize some more".

It is really, in essence, not much different from this excerpt from the 2017 letter from the Governing Body to Jehovah's Witnesses (an organization which is unashamedly and overtly engaged in proselytization):

"The Governing Body is deeply touched and encouraged to see that God’s people around the world have been busier than ever as they keep pace with Jehovah’s organization. Many have moved to serve where the need is greater. Others have moved into a new avenue of service, such as a foreign-language field. Many have tried a form of witnessing that was new and unfamiliar to them. Many more have expanded their service in yet other ways..."​

I can't read that letter any other way - if that's what you mean by "wilfull ignorance" then wilfully ignorant I am. But I prefer to think I've seen right through you - I know what you're up to and you ain't gonna catch me out that easily!

What do you think it means?

Your selective willful self imposed ignorance has an agenda.

It means all religions share their belief with others because the belief it. There are two very distinct meanings for proselytise. One is simply sharing teaching your belief to others who are willing to listen.

From: https://www.google.com/search?sourc.....1..gws-wiz.....6..35i39j0j0i131.6vBU3SFBMVU

advocate or promote (a belief or course of action).
"Davis wanted to share his concept and proselytize his ideas"
synonyms: promote, present, spread, proclaim, peddle, propound, preach, back, urge, suggest, support, advocate, endorse, champion, sponsor, espouse, advance, further, assist, aid, help, contribute to, foster, boost
"they are preoccupied with proselytizing a liberal view."

The other well . . .

Those that condemn, misrepresent, brainwash, intimidate, threaten, or use fear, threats, psychological methods that create dependency.

Well, ah . . .you choose to condemn, and misrepresent the Baha'i Faith based on your personal agenda and manipulate using the misuse of the word proselytize.