Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?

[TransmutingSoul]

Bahaullah never said that he was a "First Bahai". Did he, please?
If yes, please quote from him from Iqan, his concepts book.
I understand that perhaps followers of Bahaullah are ahead or stronger followers of Bahaism than Bahaullah was himself. Bahaullah never claimed that he was "First Bahai", yet his followers here say he was a "First Bahai", it suggests that now Bahaullah is to follow the Bahaism people and likewise, perhaps, the UHJ also instead of they following Bahaullah.
Right, please?

Regards

Its all a distraction with names paarsurry, the purpose of all the Messengers is the Worship of our One God, Allah. Submission to Allah, paarsurry

That requires us to become Loving to all humanity and serve all with humility, virtue and justice.

Consider, Baha'u'llah has shown a dinky die aussie in a material focused world, what the purpose was that Allah gave to Muhammad through the Quran. What other proof is needed? Names can become a barrier, only when we use them as veils.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Sorry to the friends who follow Bahaullah , and sorry for Bahaullah as well, please. Alas! Bahaullah should have committed his mistakes within Islam as did

No need to be sorry for us paarsurry. It is not us that made your choice to reject God's Messengers.

We will just wish you always the best and hope you remain well and happy. Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?
Bahaullah was sure not a "Bahai" as per the core book of Bahaullah named by him as "Kitab-i-Iqan".

Baha'i means follower of Baha'u'llah, the Manifestation of God for this present age.
Baha'u'llah was not a follower of Himself, so Baha'u'llah was not a Baha'i.

Perhaps one of the Baha'is on this forum can enlighten me as to who was the first Baha'i.

 

[paarsurrey]

Baha'i means follower of Baha'u'llah, the Manifestation of God for this present age.
Baha'u'llah was not a follower of Himself, so Baha'u'llah was not a Baha'i.

Perhaps one of the Baha'is on this forum can enlighten me as to who was the first Baha'i.

Please don't split frog hairs, it is not a good deed. Right, please?

"and Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i" post #5 , please.

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

Please don't split frog hairs, it is not a good deed. Right, please?

"and Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i" post #5 , please.

Regards

I am not splitting anything. Baha'u'llah was not the first Baha'i.
The first Baha'i would have been the first follower of Baha'u'llah, but I do not know who that was.

 

[shunyadragon]

Please don't split frog hairs, it is not a good deed. Right, please?

"and Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i" post #5 , please.

Regards

Well, ah . . . in recent history you have split a lot of frog hairs to choke the frog concerning names versus titles, and details about the type of daily prayer from Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. From the perspective of your argument using the same argument Judaism and Christianity consider Islam a false religion. You have the reputation of using minor interpretive differences between religious beliefs to condemn them as false.

You are also constantly splitting the frog hair over 'Was Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i? which is a nonsense issue. The simple answer is that those that believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah are Baha'is. There are different ways to interpret this that have nothing to do with whether the claim of a religion is true. From the perspective of the translation of Baha'i as the follower of Light or Glory of God, all believers since Adam are Baha'is. The question is whether Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, and it is obvious you do not believe it.

 

[paarsurrey]

I am not splitting anything. Baha'u'llah was not the first Baha'i.
The first Baha'i would have been the first follower of Baha'u'llah, but I do not know who that was.

I don't think there was any first Bahai. In the pre-Iqan period Bahaullah was sure a Babi, and if Bab was a (mystic shaykhi twelver) Muslim, then Bahaullah was a Muslim till such time he openly said that he was not a Babi-Muslim. Maybe Bahaullah made others to follow the concepts he published but he had no-religion at all, but it has to . Right, please?

Also please note:

68. BAHÁ’U’LLÁH’S REVERENCE FOR THE QUR’ÁN

" It should come as no surprise that Bahá’u’lláh’s respect for the Qur’an was heartfelt and genuine. Bahá’u’lláh was, after all, a Muslim."
CHRISTOPHER BUCK
Visiting Assistant Professor, Michigan State University, [email protected]ÁT PRESSLOS ANGELES
Symbol & Secret: Qur’an Commentary in Baha’u’llah’s Kitab-i Iqan (1995/2004)

Regards

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't think there was any first Bahai. In the pre-Iqan period Bahaullah was sure a Babi, and if Bab was a (mystic shaykhi twelver) Muslim, then Bahaullah was a Muslim till such time he openly said that he was not a Babi-Muslim. Maybe Bahaullah made others to follow the concepts he published but he had no-religion at all, but it has to . Right, please?

Wrong, splitting frog hairs again . . .

Well, ah . . . in recent history you have split a lot of frog hairs to choke the frog concerning names versus titles, and details about the type of daily prayer from Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. From the perspective of your argument using the same argument Judaism and Christianity consider Islam a false religion. You have the reputation of using minor interpretive differences between religious beliefs to condemn them as false.

You are also constantly splitting the frog hair over 'Was Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i? which is a nonsense issue. The simple answer is that those that believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah are Baha'is. There are different ways to interpret this that have nothing to do with whether the claim of a religion is true. From the perspective of the translation of Baha'i as the follower of Light or Glory of God, all believers since Adam are Baha'is. The question is whether Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, and it is obvious you do not believe it.

 

[paarsurrey]

Well, ah . . . in recent history you have split a lot of frog hairs to choke the frog concerning names versus titles, and details about the type of daily prayer from Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. From the perspective of your argument using the same argument Judaism and Christianity consider Islam a false religion.

You are also constantly splitting the frog hair over 'Was Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i? which is a nonsense issue. The simple answer is that those that believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah are Baha'is. There are different ways to interpret this that have nothing to do with whether the claim of a religion is true. From the perspective of the translation of Baha'i as the follower of Light or Glory of God, all believers since Adam are Baha'is. The question is whether Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, and it is obvious you do not believe it.

"and it is obvious you do not believe it"

Sure, I am not a Bahai. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
I am reading/investigating Kitab-i-Iqan and asking little questions which anybody on the Forum could answer, if they have an answer whether a Bahai or a non-Bahai.

Regards

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think there was any first Bahai. In the pre-Iqan period Bahaullah was sure a Babi, and if Bab was a (mystic shaykhi twelver) Muslim, then Bahaullah was a Muslim till such time he openly said that he was not a Babi-Muslim. Maybe Bahaullah made others to follow the concepts he published but he had no-religion at all, but it has to . Right, please?

Also please note:

68. BAHÁ’U’LLÁH’S REVERENCE FOR THE QUR’ÁN

" It should come as no surprise that Bahá’u’lláh’s respect for the Qur’an was heartfelt and genuine. Bahá’u’lláh was, after all, a Muslim."
CHRISTOPHER BUCK
Visiting Assistant Professor, Michigan State University, [email protected]ÁT PRESSLOS ANGELES
Symbol & Secret: Qur’an Commentary in Baha’u’llah’s Kitab-i Iqan (1995/2004)

Regards

Thanks. It would have probably been a Babi who was the first Baha'i, so it would have been the first Babi to recognize Baha'ullah as Him Whom God shall make manifest.

Of course Baha'u'llah had reverence for the Qur'an. he knew it was the Word of God through Muhammad.

On another note, I might need some help from you. I recently joined a Christian forum and they are saying things about the Qur'an I do not think are true. The Christian said that Quran says Muslims are to kill the infidels - the Christians and Jews. Here is how I responded:

The Qur’an does not say they are to kill the infidels and Muslims do not consider Christians and Jews to be infidels. I suggest you read this short article: Does Islam Say: "Kill The Infidels"?

Here is an excerpt from the article:

"Now let us correct some mistakes in the 'question' itself. There is not such a meaning in the Quran, ordering or even permitting the Muslims to ever attack innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or any other faith for that matter.

Combat is only ordered against those who are attacking or killing the innocent Muslims or fighting against the established Muslim state.”.

 

[paarsurrey]

He did not reveal His Station until 1963 but later referred to Himself as...

He Who is the Pre-Existent is come.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Advent of Divine Justice, Pages 72-85

But he (Bahaullah) did not say/claim that he was a Bahai.
Also please, did Bahaullah ever say that his followers will be named Bahai and their religion will be Bahaism? If not, who named it "Bahaism".

Anybody, please.

Regards

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am not splitting anything. Baha'u'llah was not the first Baha'i.
The first Baha'i would have been the first follower of Baha'u'llah, but I do not know who that was.

There is many ways to look at this and no cut and dry answer. It is just splitting the hairs on one head. We can make the question more precise, even bring it back to only this world and the time of the declaration of Baha'u'llahin in the Ridvan Garden day 1

Or it could be said that The First and the Last would fulfill this, as the first to accept, give and live the Message are the Human Manifestation, the founders.

In the Kitab-i-iqan Baha'u'llah says all Messengers longed to witness this day and would accept. We know the Bab was already submitting to Baha'u'llah in His writings.

Thus we really do not know who was the first Baha'i or who will be the last Baha'i in the Material world. We know quite a few people believed in and preached about the arrival of the Bab and Baha'u'llah before they were born.

Now if we turn to a specific time and a specific event then for the Bab we know who was the first Disciple. With Baha'u'llah in the Garden of Ridvan there were a few present who Baha'u'llah declared to, they could be seen as the first, we do not know who they all were, but Abdul'baha was there. But Abdul'baha knew who Baha'u'llah was since His early childhood and served Him all His life.

See the issue with the question?

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

But Abdul'baha knew who Baha'u'llah was since His early childhood and served Him all His life.

See the issue with the question?

Yes, I see the issue, but I would say that Abdu'l-Baha was probably the first Baha'i in that He was probably the first to recognize the station of Baha'ullah.

 

[paarsurrey]

It might be off-topic to point this out, but are you aware that baptism is a Christian practice, and not a Jewish practice?

Then what was John the Baptist doing with Jesus in the water. Wasn't John a Jew, please?




John the Baptizer preaches by the River Jordan

John was a direct male descendant of Aaron, brother of Moses. He was a Kohen (or Cohen) the distinct priestly line of Kohenim that were only permitted to minister in the Old Testament Temple.
Why did John the Baptist baptize with water?

Regards

 

[shunyadragon]

"and it is obvious you do not believe it"

Sure, I am not a Bahai. I am an Ahmadi peaceful Muslim.
I am reading/investigating Kitab-i-Iqan and asking little questions which anybody on the Forum could answer, if they have an answer whether a Bahai or a non-Bahai.

Regards

The Iqan is not the only writings of Baha'u'llah. It is absolutely meaningless whether Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i or not. Again you need to address these issues . . .

Well, ah . . . in recent history you have split a lot of frog hairs to choke the frog concerning names versus titles, and details about the type of daily prayer from Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha'i Faith. From the perspective of your argument using the same argument Judaism and Christianity consider Islam a false religion. You have the reputation of using minor interpretive differences between religious beliefs to condemn them as false.

You are also constantly splitting the frog hair over 'Was Baha'u'llah was the first Baha'i? which is a nonsense issue. The simple answer is that those that believe in the claims of Baha'u'llah are Baha'is. There are different ways to interpret this that have nothing to do with whether the claim of a religion is true. From the perspective of the translation of Baha'i as the follower of Light or Glory of God, all believers since Adam are Baha'is. The question is whether Baha'u'llah is who he claims he is, and it is obvious you do not believe it.

 

[shunyadragon]

Then what was John the Baptist doing with Jesus in the water. Wasn't John a Jew, please?




John the Baptizer preaches by the River Jordan

John was a direct male descendant of Aaron, brother of Moses. He was a Kohen (or Cohen) the distinct priestly line of Kohenim that were only permitted to minister in the Old Testament Temple.
Why did John the Baptist baptize with water?

Regards

Again, totally meaningless. Simply Jesus was the Christ and John was John the Baptist. John Baptised Jesus initiating the first sacrament of Christianity. Those that followed Jesus Christ were Christians long before Muhammad was born.

 

[paarsurrey]

If you study the Bāb's writings, he never refers to his religion as the "Babi Faith" or anything along those lines but rather articulates all of his claims within an Islamic framework. He is in no way non-Islamic per se, but rather post-Islamic, Islamic in the same sense that post-Keynesian economics is Keynesian, if you would. The term the Bāb adopts is bayān, which, if you study the more esoteric traditions of the Shī'ah Imāms, this is nothing but a higher expression of the eternal essence of Islam. The Bāb was a Twelver Shī'ah through and through, and he and his followers did not see themselves as in opposition to Islam; they saw themselves as the true Muslims.

Very interesting, please.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

He did not renounce Islam just as Christ and Muhammad did not renounce did not renounce Judaism.

Muhammad was never a Christian or a Jew.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Was Bahaullah a "Bahai", please?

When did Bahaullah cease to pray Salat like he used to do as Shia-Twelver-Muslims do ?

This could decide the issue.

Another will be when Bahaullah got married with his third wife, Gawhar Khanum, who did solemnize this marriage and on what tradition? It sure happened in the post Iqan period. Right, please?

Regards

 

[shunyadragon]

Muhammad was never a Christian or a Jew.
Regards

Repeat, never said Muhammad was a Christian nor a Jew, but he acknowledged the Revelation of Abraham, Moses and Jesus Christ,

Your repeating yourself far too much it is getting tiring.