God experience can change atheists

[atanu]

In a survey of thousands of people who reported having experienced personal encounters with God, Johns Hopkins researchers report that more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after their encounter, regardless of whether it was spontaneous or while taking a psychedelic.

Experiences of 'ultimate reality' or 'God' confer lasting benefits to mental health


Survey of subjective "God encounter experiences": Comparisons among naturally occurring experiences and those occasioned by the classic psychedelics psilocybin, LSD, ayahuasca, or DMT

...

As I always say the stupendous taste of mango can be known only by eating a mango.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

As I always say the stupendous taste of mango can be known only by eating a mango.

But we can never know if YOUR experience of mango is the same as MY experience of mango...

 

[Cleary]

Only if the Father draws them / calls them will they find salvation ....
anyone can believe 'IN' God .. the issue is, do they 'BELIEVE' God .....
many 'cases' are probably headed from the frying pan to the fire

Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was counted to him for righteousness

 

[Polymath257]

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[LuisDantas]

You really don't give up, now do you, @atanu ?

Of course, someone who had a god-experience is by definition a believer in the existence of a god, and therefore not an atheist.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think experience (or lack of experience) changes a lot of things. You might 'hate' or 'love' a certain food until you taste it. You might think 'pain' or 'pleasure' is something far different than you perceive once you experience it.

 

[joe1776]

You really don't give up, now do you, @atanu ?

Of course, someone who had a god-experience is by definition a believer in the existence of a god, and therefore not an atheist.

That's not my understanding. One might have a "god experience" under the influence of a drug and still believe it was a delusion and not real. It would probably depend on the nature of the experience.

 

[LuisDantas]

That's not my understanding. One might have an experience under the influence of a drug and still believe it was a delusion and not real.

I suppose.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

As I always say the stupendous taste of mango can be known only by eating a mango.

I've tasted that mango and found it to have a disagreeable flavor.

I was once a Christian. I have been a secular humanist for decades now. It should be obvious which I found unpalatable and which tasted better. I like papaya better.

 

[dingdao]

*** Mod Post ***

Please be reminded of rule 6:

6. Illegal Activities
Advocating or discussing personal engagement in illegal activities or criminal organizations (such as hate groups or terrorist groups) is prohibited in all areas of RF. Illegal activities are defined based on United States law, and include but are not limited to: drug use, theft, piracy, vandalism, and all violent crimes. Voicing opposition to illegal activities and criminal organizations, or debating changes to current criminal law, may be acceptable at the discretion of the RF staff.

So, if the drug use in question was done as a legal study in the US, let's say published by Timothy Leary, then this would be fair game for discussion?

 

[viole]

In a survey of thousands of people who reported having experienced personal encounters with God, Johns Hopkins researchers report that more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after their encounter, regardless of whether it was spontaneous or while taking a psychedelic.

Experiences of 'ultimate reality' or 'God' confer lasting benefits to mental health


Survey of subjective "God encounter experiences": Comparisons among naturally occurring experiences and those occasioned by the classic psychedelics psilocybin, LSD, ayahuasca, or DMT

...

As I always say the stupendous taste of mango can be known only by eating a mango.

You seem to indicate that belief, not necessarily the target of belief, is important in some way or form.

Correct?

I have no problem with that, since I am confident that the belief in supernatural things is a naturally selected trait.

Ciao

- viole

 

[74x12]

But we can never know if YOUR experience of mango is the same as MY experience of mango...

By comparing experiences I think we can figure it out. So the same with God experiences.

 

[sun rise]

That's not my understanding. One might have a "god experience" under the influence of a drug and still believe it was a delusion and not real. It would probably depend on the nature of the experience.

True and how one interprets it. The human mind is great at rationalizing everything to fit its model of reality. Even without drugs, it can interpreted as strictly hallucinations.

And Sam Harris, for example, wrote a book on how atheists can be spiritual without accepting religious beliefs.

 

[ecco]

In a survey of thousands of people who reported having experienced personal encounters with God, Johns Hopkins researchers report that more than two-thirds of self-identified atheists shed that label after their encounter, regardless of whether it was spontaneous or while taking a psychedelic.

The above is a very ambiguous statement. It also is grammatically incorrect. These two points led me to question the alleged source: April 23, 2019 , Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine

It turns out the author is a well-respected researcher, Roland R. Griffiths, on the effects of psychedelics. However, he is also a strong god believer.

The article has some statistics regarding the number of participants but nothing regarding the number of atheists.

The vague opening paragraph apparently accomplished what the author wanted: give the impression that even atheists can come to see god whether naturally or with the usage of psychedelics (WHICH I AM NOT ADVOCATING).

Note the clever wording of the paragraph...
"a survey of thousands of people"
"more than two-thirds of atheists"

Well, if the survey was "of thousands of people who reported having experienced personal encounters with God", how many were atheists? Correctly, none would have been atheists. What is 2/3s of none?

However, this intentionally vague and misleading wording accomplishes what the author intended. It gives people like Antanu a reason to start a forum thread with the header:
God experience can change atheists

If atanu had bothered to read the article he would have seen the article mentions atheists only twice. Never does tha article say how many of the thousands of people who reported having experienced personal encounters with God were atheists. That is either shoddy research or intentionally misleading rhetoric.

But atanu isn't alone. The article was reprinted by many groups who believe that even hardened atheists are desperately looking for god.

For the record, we aren't.

 

[ecco]

By comparing experiences I think we can figure it out. So the same with God experiences.

Long ago I found that the whole idea of god was silly. I guess I could metaphorically relate that to eating a mango and finding the taste to be beyond weird.

If thereafter someone said, you should try a mango, you might like it, it might try it again and continue to know it's not my thing.

If thereafter someone said, you should try a mango, you might like it, I could just say, I did and it's not for me.

If thereafter YOU said, you should try a mango, you might like it, I would say, I did and it's not for me.

Would you then just accept my decision or would you, as many do with god/religion, ...

• Accuse me of not really tasting a mango
• Tell me that I need to keep on trying
• Try to convince me that if I just read up on the cultivation of mangos I'd change my mind
• Convince yourself that I really do like mangos but I'm just afraid to admit it.
• Continue believing that everyone would like mangos if they really tried.

 

[Sapiens]

Since we have seen that "Atheists outperform theists at nearly all reasoning skills," is it reasonable to conclude that amongst the changes that atheists undergo, as part of thier "God Experience" is a concomitant reduction in "nearly all reasoning skills?" Sounds right to me.

 

[atanu]

I've tasted that mango and found it to have a disagreeable flavor.

I was once a Christian. I have been a secular humanist for decades now. It should be obvious which I found unpalatable and which tasted better. I like papaya better.

The findings of the study does not apply to you. Or your experience was not of God, perhaps.

 

[atanu]

Since we have seen that "Atheists outperform theists at nearly all reasoning skills," is it reasonable to conclude that amongst the changes that atheists undergo, as part of thier "God Experience" is a concomitant reduction in "nearly all reasoning skills?" Sounds right to me.

Yes. One finds better ways to use the available faculties.

 

[atanu]

Long ago I found that the whole idea of god was silly. I guess I could metaphorically relate that to eating a mango and finding the taste to be beyond weird.

If thereafter someone said, you should try a mango, you might like it, it might try it again and continue to know it's not my thing.

If thereafter someone said, you should try a mango, you might like it, I could just say, I did and it's not for me.

If thereafter YOU said, you should try a mango, you might like it, I would say, I did and it's not for me.

Would you then just accept my decision or would you, as many do with god/religion, ...

• Accuse me of not really tasting a mango
• Tell me that I need to keep on trying
• Try to convince me that if I just read up on the cultivation of mangos I'd change my mind
• Convince yourself that I really do like mangos but I'm just afraid to admit it.
• Continue believing that everyone would like mangos if they really tried.

Well some may be unlucky and get to taste artificially ripened mango.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

By comparing experiences I think we can figure it out. So the same with God experiences.

I disagree. We might be able to agree upon some language using analogies, metaphors, etc., but there is currently no way for one individual to experience the experience of another...And no description or artistic expression is going to really bridge that gap.