Does the Qur’an really have errors?

[LuisDantas]

It is a fairly serious mistake to bring up the Bible when pointing out that the Qur'an has mistakes.

The Bible has a different nature and different expectations.

In any case, the proper question is not whether the Qur'an has mistakes, but rather whether it should be expected to be taken seriously, given how impossibly high and contradictory its own self-imposed standards are.

No scripture can be expected to sustain an actual religion, but Islaam is nonetheless an extreme case, in that it goes all-out in betting its own dignitiy and validity on its own scripture, for everyone's grave loss.

 

[Notanumber]

Can those errors be questioned in any other religion without serious repercussions?

It is not funny for those questioners that are punished for their curiosity, @Firemorphic.

 

[sooda]

Can those errors be questioned in any other religion without serious repercussions?

I'm sure they are all the time.

 

[sooda]

It is a fairly serious mistake to bring up the Bible when pointing out that the Qur'an has mistakes.

The Bible has a different nature and different expectations.

In any case, the proper question is not whether the Qur'an has mistakes, but rather whether it should be expected to be taken seriously, given how impossibly high and contradictory its own self-imposed standards are.

No scripture can be expected to sustain an actual religion, but Islaam is nonetheless an extreme case, in that it goes all-out in betting its own dignitiy and validity on its own scripture, for everyone's grave loss.

Are you assuming to speak for all Muslims?

 

[LuisDantas]

Are you assuming to speak for all Muslims?

Oh, of course not.

By definition, a Muslim would never agree with me. Once they have attained both the awareness and the courage, they just leave Islaam altogether. Islaam is a serious candidate for the single most effective creator of all-out atheists in the world.

Although many a "kafir" would end up having to pretend to be a Muslim, given the reality of Islaam.

 

[sooda]

Oh, of course not.

By definition, a Muslim would never agree with me. Once they have attained both the awareness and the courage, they just leave Islaam altogether. Islaam is a serious candidate for the single most effective creator of all-out atheists in the world.

Although many a "kafir" would end up having to pretend to be a Muslim, given the reality of Islaam.

I disagree. Christians don't leave Christianity because of anachronisms, contradictions, silly myths and errors of geography.

You're bringing a lot of assumptions with your bias.

 

[LuisDantas]

I disagree. Christians don't leave Christianity because of anachronisms, contradictions, silly myths and errors of geography.

You're bringing a lot of assumptions with your bias.

What you mean, or I assume that you would say if you had a better grasp of Islaam, is that Christianity is not as similar to Islaam as many people assume.

 

[sooda]

What you mean, or I assume that you would say if you had a better grasp of Islaam, is that Christianity is not as similar to Islaam as many people assume.

I spent 20 years of my life in Arabia so I do know a bit about Islam and Muslims. Many years of studying, asking questions etc.

Muslims question just like Christians and like Christians they don't agree on everything.

 

[LuisDantas]

I spent 20 years of my life in Arabia so I do know a bit about Islam and Muslims. Many years of studying, asking questions etc.

Muslims question just like Christians and like Christians they don't agree on everything.

Then you know how difficult it is for them to be open about what they feel regarding doctrine, don't you?

 

[sooda]

Then you know how difficult it is for them to be open about what they feel regarding doctrine, don't you?

I never found them that way. How do you speak for Muslims?

 

[LuisDantas]

I never found them that way. How do you speak for Muslims?

I do not speak for Muslims. I would not be caught dead being a Muslim. And I am confidend that they would never delegate such a task to me, nor should they.

I have researched the matter something fierce and take it very seriously, though.

 

[sooda]

I do not speak for Muslims. I would not be caught dead being a Muslim. And I am confidend that they would never delegate such a task to me, nor should they.

I have researched the matter something fierce and take it very seriously, though.

Let me guess.. You did your research on the internet since 9-11.

 

[LuisDantas]

Let me guess.. You did your research on the internet since 9-11.

Actually it goes way back. There was a point in time, back in the 1990s when I was vouched for by a Muslim chatroom as a reference for newcomers, believe it or else.

Now, do you want to talk about bias and how to avoid it? It feels like an appropriate subject matter for this moment.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Well, well, well.... Look who showed up for dinner.
Take a seat... The food is a lot better on THIS forum than on that other forum.
It is a smorgasbord just like you like it...

While I DO enjoy a good "smorgasbord", there are some which are downright nasty! The "MENU" on this particular one is a bit, shall I say 'intimidating', but I agree that it is better, than that "other" one you cautiously referred to.

Now, a counter-question for YOU. Why are you questioning the veracity of the Quran, or even the Bible, and NOT your own "scriptures" as provided by Bahá'u'lláh, when they are ALL simply words SAID to have come FROM God, and not necessarily said BY God?

 

[ManSinha]

While I DO enjoy a good "smorgasbord", there are some which are downright nasty! The "MENU" on this particular one is a bit, shall I say 'intimidating', but I agree that it is better, than that "other" one you cautiously referred to.

Now, a counter-question for YOU. Why are you questioning the veracity of the Quran, or even the Bible, and NOT your own "scriptures" as provided by Bahá'u'lláh, when they are ALL simply words SAID to have come FROM God, and not necessarily said BY God?

At the risk of generalizing - which is very often wrong - it is the exceptional Baha'i who will question their scripture - even though there are many of us that have pointed out archaic things like "an eye for an eye" type of justice or "dowry for marriage" mentioned in there

Look at the replies from @Tony Bristow-Stagg and @loverofhumanity - both apologetics in chief on this board. From what I have seen they consider the prophets / manifestations and their writings to be "perfect" and will not countenance any other argument.

I could bring in other fallacious arguments made on other threads which openly demonstrate the double standards being employed but that would be against forum rules

 

[stvdv]

Her question was: "In the Islamic belief, the Quran is the perfect word of the almighty creator. What does that mean, if we prove that only one piece of knowledge in the Quran is objectively wrong?"

As far as I know the Koran is not "written down by God". There was a prophet to whom God allegedly told the Koran. The prophet is a human being, so not God, so of course a human being makes errors.

If someone claims "Koran is word of God" then of course when you find one error you have proven it's not the word of God IF the person says God is perfect and never makes 1 error.

I believe "God" (undefined power/energy making universe possible) is perfect. So called "imperfect creation" is also part of perfection.

Teachers have no problem that a student makes mistakes, because that is part of their "learning curve". God is the Divine Teacher. He can hande "these imperfections (as they are called by some imperfect humans)".

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Look at the replies from @Tony Bristow-Stagg and @loverofhumanity - both apologetics in chief on this board. From what I have seen they consider the prophets / manifestations and their writings to be "perfect" and will not countenance any other argument.

I could bring in other fallacious arguments made on other threads which openly demonstrate the double standards being employed but that would be against forum rules

It has been my limited experience on such boards/forums as this one, that ANYTHING a believe BELIEVES, is believed to be the inerrant, unalterable, TRUTH. And in a very real sense, I CAN understand that...for if the believer him/herself is not confident in what they believe, they are essentially a veritable HEARTBEAT away from what I believe.

In regards to the fallacious arguments you alluded to....is it against forum rules to be presenting them as such, or that it is what someone ELSE has said, and you would just be "quoting" them, that is against the rules? Please explain, so as I do not make the same "mistake" and get chewed out for it.

 

[ManSinha]

It has been my limited experience on such boards/forums as this one, that ANYTHING a believe BELIEVES, is believed to be the inerrant, unalterable, TRUTH. And in a very real sense, I CAN understand that...for if the believer him/herself is not confident in what they believe, they are essentially a veritable HEARTBEAT away from what I believe.

In regards to the fallacious arguments you alluded to....is it against forum rules to be presenting them as such, or that it is what someone ELSE has said, and you would just be "quoting" them, that is against the rules? Please explain, so as I do not make the same "mistake" and get chewed out for it.

Hoping one of the mods can help me out but there was something about quoting / bringing in another thread (not your own) into a debate in order to score points (probably something about taking specific posts out of context of the whole discussion) - I, myself, have not been here long - so welcome!

As to your first point - not always - there are those like @danieldemol and @Dan From Smithville and even @paarsurrey and @sooda that come to mind as being rational individuals that are willing to consider all sides of the equation - I am multi tasking so apologies to those that feel I should included them but forgot -

 

[ACEofALLaces]

As to your first point - not always - there are those like @danieldemol and @Dan From Smithville and even @paarsurrey and @sooda that come to mind as being rational individuals that are willing to consider all sides of the equation - I am multi tasking so apologies to those that feel I should included them but forgot -

A fair enough response. I am never so "sure" about something as to not consider the possibility of there being "exceptions" to it. So, yes, I did not mean to imply that ALL believers are like that...just the majority of them.

When ALL ELSE fails them, they always have their trusty "FAITH CARD", to be used as the ultimate "trump card".

 

[Cleary]

I believe this is why we see what we see in today's world