EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I'm sorry . . . did I miss the 'proof' or something? Using circular reasoning is a no no, by the way.
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Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?
- Thread starter whirlingmerc
- Start date
Kilk1
Member
Not when they're biased AGAINST something, just as Jesus and Christianity.
What "more" is there to life that you cannot verify through your senses, and how then could you verify the "more" exists?
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
The Romans made grave robbery a capital crime shortly after... seems something went down
No need to apologise to me. It is up to you if you choose to look at this in any other way and if you do or not, is not in my hands.
I wish you always well and happy, regards Tony
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
That was 'sarcasm' . . . using the bible as proof for what the bible says is circular logic and doesn't hold any water.
Love exists.
In its pure form, one can not see it, one can not touch it, one can not smell it, one can not taste it and one can not hear it.
But there it can be, in ones heart, if they choose it over hate. This is the same with our choice of all virtues. The virtues come through choice and not through sight, hearing, touch, taste, and smell.
So what motivates choice for the good of all? Some have called it a 6th sense.
Regards Tony
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Nope . . . 'all' the types of Love are biological mechanisms for survival . . .
The Science Behind Why We Fall in Love
That just proves the point, you have used a material example of material love.
Then there is the pure Love where one gives their life in this world, for the good of all.
Beyond the senses.
Regards Tony
I disagree. Depending on one's definition, love is a concept that is only recognized and made meaningful through the use of our senses, either in the way we perceive any other feeling or the way we perceive any other action. If it weren't for our senses, we would have no concept of love because we would have no perception of anything, by definition.
What motivates the choice for good, generally speaking, is our desire to improve our lives and the lives of the people we care about. While this is certainly ingrained into us instinctually as a social species (so we can speak informally of intuiting these choices like a "sixth sense"), it is very much a product of our physical senses. If we had no senses, we would have no ability to discern what good or not good choices even exist for us to choose between.
Riders
Well-Known Member
Wiki isnt biased
Giving one's life in this world is very much discernible via our senses. Again, I don't know what other mechanism you could possibly use other than our senses to determine that someone has "given their life in this world," or to know what those words even mean.
How do you see that as a material experience, when one give this life for all?
Regards Tony
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Not interested
shmogie
Well-Known Member
How do you know that about the New Testament ? You don´t. You have an opinion, opinions aren´t evidence.
The only (real) lives I'm familiar with are material ones. "Giving your life" is usually an expression for
dying for a certain cause - again, a very much physical phenomenon.
When people say Jesus died "for all," they usually mean something like, he died to pay the "cost" of the world's sin, to save the world from hell, to enable us to defeat death (i.e. resurrect), etc. All of which entertain supernatural/immaterial ideas of an afterlife, soul, etc. that I don't think there's good evidence for. And if you want to present evidence for them, I don't know how you would do that without appealing to some kind of data perceived with our senses.
There is no self in that choice, it is motivated purly by a sensless love, it goes beyond material senses.
Rumi wrote;
"Love’s a stranger to earth and heaven too;
In him are lunacies seventy-and-two."
The issue may be that humainty has now seen to many acts of self based love in the form of terrorism.
Regards Tony
Riders
Well-Known Member
WIkis source says Tacitus is reliable while others say its not. Here ar ethe words of Tacitus that Christians claim as proof. He is speaking of the punishment torture of Christians found by Pontius Piltae names Christ as the leader who was crucified .
Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judæa, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their centre and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then, upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind.
There is a huge problem Im having with this. It does not prove Jesus was raised from the dead or even that his name was Jesus , it says Christ, Christ which is a name that could be used for any jewish Mesiah.
There is no doubt in my mind that there was a Messiah movement in Jesus times, and that Christians could have been a group started out of that, this writing could have just been about one of the Messiahs. Even if it pointed specifically to Jesus,and it does not say Jesus name it says Christ, as I said , but it does not prove that Jesus was raised from the dead.
I don't deny a guy named Jesus existed. There was a Messiah movement back then and I think Jesus could have been one of them or the whole group........but the Christians were one of the groups out of the Messiah movement.
EtuMalku
Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Who gave their life for all? The way I see it, another heretical Jew was handed over by the Romans for treason.
Jesus of Nazareth was executed today on the orders of the Roman State. Method of execution: Crucifixion. The charge under Roman law was treason, and under Herodian law blasphemy against the Temple. The evidence against this anarchist was so strong that authorities of both the Roman State and the Kingdom of Herod concurred with the arrest and execution, and he was subjected to trial by both governments. And in a rare uprising of spontaneous collective justice, the mass of people who were gathered for Passover called for his execution as well. The mob affirmed their loyalty to the state, chanting, "We have no king but Caesar."
Jesus Of Nazareth, Enemy Of The State, Executed For Treason
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Read the New Testament. It exists, it is evidence, so, prove it wrong. Of course, you cannot.
You have opinions, which aren´t evidence, and you assume that since no one has been raised from the dead in a context you accept, it hasn´t happened.
Your assumption is wrong too.