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The shortcoming of German churches and cathedrals.

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member

And this article was published nine days before the burning of Notre Dame. A coincidence?

No, I'm not a Catholic but my mother and others on her side of the family were raised in the Catholic tradition.

I do admire the artful beauty and majesty of Catholic churches and a few Protestant cathedrals. The Roman Catholics do possess the most ornate
of the world's churches. Even Spanish missions are a splendor to behold.

The Mormon (LDS) Churches in Boise, ID are quite opulent too.

Heavenly pipe organ music leaves my soul
in complete awe.
 
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exchemist

Veteran Member
I was stationed in Nuremberg/Furth with the Army for two years in the early/mid 1990's. There was an impressive old castle in the old part of town. I was not too impressed with the interior of one church or cathedral there: can't recall the name. I've doing a lot of browsing on the web of German churches and cathedrals only because I was stationed there and I am a devout fan of Bach music and other Baroque music. What I've learned is the northern part of Germany is Protestant while the southern half approaching Bavaria and the Alps is mostly Catholic. Furth is primarily Catholic. My impression of the Germans while stationed is that they are a vile people often with strong body odor and bad grooming habits. The smell of urine in the streets is not uncommon there. They also let in a lot of vile foreigners as from Turkey I've been told. There were a lot of dark people there that looked Semitic or Assyrian, Arab-like.
Well you are obviously a well-adjusted person with a balanced and tolerant outlook. I look for forward to seeing more of your contributions from the St Petersburg troll farm or wherever you come from.
 

Jonathan Bailey

Well-Known Member
Well you are obviously a well-adjusted person with a balanced and tolerant outlook. I look for forward to seeing more of your contributions from the St Petersburg troll farm or wherever you come from.
I come from my mother's womb here on American soil. And no, I don't like to see turbans or sheets over people's heads here.
 
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Cooky

Veteran Member
Do you ever wonder how "the church" came to be recognized by its buildings rather that the spiritual caliber of its leaders and congregations? And what about the attire of those who purport to be teachers and leaders of the various denominations in Christendom?

images
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Did Jesus or his apostles ever dress like this? What happened to the Christian modesty that Christ embodied? He shunned this kind of display in the Pharisees.

On the night of his arrest, Judas had to identify Jesus with a kiss...why? Because he was dressed like every other Jew. No fancy garb, nothing to identify him as the Son of God except his teachings, his manner, and his ability to perform miracles.



Did you know, that in the Catacombs, where the early Christians went underground to avoid persecution, there were no images found at all until around the 4th century? Both Jews and the first Christians avoided the use of images because of what was written in the Bible. In the 10 Commandments there was a specific law that stated NOT to MAKE images of anything that would be used in worship. So I believe the first image to appear there was a fish.
images


There are various stories about the origin of the fish but you will see the Pope and other religious leaders wearing a miter.

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Which is strangely reminiscent of the one worn to symbolize the fish god Dagon...

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Jesus warned that Christianity would be corrupted by men, introducing traditions adopted from pagan sources and making Christianity into something other than what Christ began. This is the only Christianity that people know. I believe that we need to do our homework and delve into the origins of many things that are taught in today's 'Christian' churches.



I'm afraid that God will NOT bless every church everywhere because "many" are going to actually be rejected by Christ at the judgment.

He said of that time....in Matthew 7:21-23...
"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!"

These ones appear to be shocked at his words, enumerating all the things they did "in his name"....and yet what does he say to them? "I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!"

"Never" means "not ever" so those self-proclaimed "Christians" are not Christians at all from Jesus' perspective....they are "Christians" only in their own estimations, but "workers of lawlessness" in his eyes.
So don't run away with the idea that all "Christianity" is acceptable to Christ.....clearly there is a criteria....they have to be "doing the will of the Father". Do you know what that entails, and what it does not? We all should because our lives depend on it according to the Bible.

If I didn’t know better, I’d think Jehovahs witness was based almost totally on the rejection of Catholicism.

What is evil though, is trying to spread this radical fundamentalism to other Christians by inciting, and relying on that common hatred for Catholicism.

...That’s pure evil.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Are you Catholic? Do you really believe that? Sounds like a bit of a sad justification to me.

On the steps of the Vatican are poor souls who constantly ask for help from their 'Vicar'....supposedly Christ's representative on earth. How did Christ treat those who came to him for help? How many did he turn away? The head of the church is inside ignoring the plight of his own flock.

How many turn up to Lourdes expecting a miracle, only to return home disappointed? Were any of Jesus' miracles failures? If its the same Holy Spirit at work, how come it has lost its power?

The money spent on the gold inlaid palace in which these 'servants of God' reside would feed the Catholic poor of the world.
images
images
images


Can you put Christ here among such opulence when so many Catholic people in the world live in abject poverty? How is it justifiable?

The Vatican art collection alone is estimated to be worth some $17 billion dollars! Would Jesus hold on to such valuable art treasures when he said that "treasure in heaven" is way more valuable? It is apparent to anyone who is not blind that Catholicism values its earthly treasures more than it values its people.

What do you think?

I think your views are quite in line with the Westboro Baptist’s.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
If I didn’t know better, I’d think Jehovahs witness was based almost totally on the rejection of Catholicism.

What is evil though, is trying to spread this radical fundamentalism to other Christians by inciting, and relying on that common hatred for Catholicism.

...That’s pure evil.

What else could they hang their hats on? Ignorant haters are really all the same.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If I didn’t know better, I’d think Jehovahs witness was based almost totally on the rejection of Catholicism.

What is evil though, is trying to spread this radical fundamentalism to other Christians by inciting, and relying on that common hatred for Catholicism.

...That’s pure evil.

Was Jesus exposing the teachings of the Pharisees, "evil"? Or was he exposing the "evil" in their teachings? Did they want to hear it? How did they respond? How did the religious leaders treat the son of God? How did they influence the people against him?
Who were the "evil" ones?

What is "evil" is promoting a religious system that has for centuries led people away from God, just as the Jewish system had done in Jesus' day, following the traditions of men to substitute for what the scriptures had to say.

The lies taught by Catholicism are perpetuated to this day in a religious ststem that has the most evil history, and has influenced all other "Christian" denominations in Christendom for 1500 years.

We all have to make choices with regard to our worship, in this "time of the end"....so they should be informed choices. No one has to believe what I say....but anyone can easily check for themselves. History itself is the greatest enemy of Roman Catholicism. It isn't hated for its good deeds...is it?

No one has anything to fear from the truth.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Was Jesus exposing the teachings of the Pharisees, "evil"? Or was he exposing the "evil" in their teachings? Did they want to hear it? How did they respond? How did the religious leaders treat the son of God? How did they influence the people against him?
Who were the "evil" ones?

What is "evil" is promoting a religious system that has for centuries led people away from God, just as the Jewish system had done in Jesus' day, following the traditions of men to substitute for what the scriptures had to say.

The lies taught by Catholicism are perpetuated to this day in a religious ststem that has the most evil history, and has influenced all other "Christian" denominations in Christendom for 1500 years.

We all have to make choices with regard to our worship, in this "time of the end"....so they should be informed choices. No one has to believe what I say....but anyone can easily check for themselves. History itself is the greatest enemy of Roman Catholicism. It isn't hated for its good deeds...is it?

No one has anything to fear from the truth.

Do you communicate directly with God just like Jesus does, and that’s how you know Catholicism teaches lies and is “promoting an evil religious system”..?

Because otherwise, you’re just replaying scripture, pretending to be Jesus. But you’re not Jesus. And the Catholic Church is not Judaism.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
@Deeje, what you're doing is called "abstract thinking", and while it is a basic human trait to view things abstractly, we often have the tendency to categorize and group based on false pretexts, and assumptions.

Essentially, not all abstractions are based in reality.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Do you communicate directly with God just like Jesus does, and that’s how you know Catholicism teaches lies and is “promoting an evil religious system”..?

Anyone who knows what the Bible teaches, (and this is the only source of Christ's teachings) as opposed to what a church teaches, or how it interprets what he said, will have a long list of things that the RCC accepts as doctrine, that finds no place in scripture. If Jesus did not teach it, then it has no place in Christianity. The Reformation was based on this.

I don't think that Catholic people have any idea how far from Christ's teachings their church has strayed. And if they only listen to the church instead of taking a step back to see what they have really been a party to for centuries, then they will never see the truth. If we are going to trust anyone...they have to first prove worthy of our trust. How can you trust a church with such an horrendous past?

Even in the present, the billion dollars already donated to rebuild Notre Dame Cathedral is drawing a lot of flack from the general public who see that a billion dollars could be better spent on real and pressing human issues like starvation and poverty among the 40% of Latin American Catholics who are presently exiting Latin American countries, because its is now too dangerous to live there. Imagine the good that $17 billion dollars worth of art treasures could do for those of their own flock. Why is it withheld?

The Catholic Church has the funds to rebuild its own cathedral and the donated public money could be put to better use. Is a building worth more than human lives?

Because otherwise, you’re just replaying scripture, pretending to be Jesus. But you’re not Jesus. And the Catholic Church is not Judaism.

Contrary to what many assume, many things in the Bible are pictorial of something in the future. The religion practiced by the Jews ended up as human misinterpretation of what Moses taught. The final result, Jesus said, was "leaven"...a corrupting agent. (Mark 8:15) God's worship was corrupted just as Jesus' teachings were corrupted by misinterpretation of church leaders in the centuries following his death. He foretold that this would happen, but Christendom pretends it never did. The "weeds" of false Christianity were sown in the very early centuries and they grew rapidly to all but choke the "wheat" out of existence.

God, through his prophet Daniel, said that at "the time of the end", due to an abundance of knowledge that was to be made available at that time, a "cleansing, whitening and refining" of his worshippers would take place. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) Why would he need to clean up his worship again if there was no need?

Just as Jesus cleaned up the worship of those Jews who responded to his ministry in the first century, so at this period in history, as God is poised to bring destruction on this entire world system under satan's control, (Daniel 2:44) he has cleaned up the worship offered through the teachings of his son. The "wicked" he said would not accept this cleansing and would carry on as before, understanding nothing.....given no insight.

Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism.

@Deeje, what you're doing is called "abstract thinking", and while it is a basic human trait to view things abstractly, we often have the tendency to categorize and group based on false pretexts, and assumptions.

Essentially, not all abstractions are based in reality.

All I have done is draw attention to some very relevant and provable facts....the RCC does not have scriptural backing for anything it teaches.....it is all corrupted by men and replaced with doctrines of their own invention.

We can discuss these if you like, and the scriptural reasons for dismissing them.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
Was Jesus exposing the teachings of the Pharisees, "evil"? Or was he exposing the "evil" in their teachings? Did they want to hear it? How did they respond? How did the religious leaders treat the son of God? How did they influence the people against him?
Who were the "evil" ones?

What is "evil" is promoting a religious system that has for centuries led people away from God, just as the Jewish system had done in Jesus' day, following the traditions of men to substitute for what the scriptures had to say.

The lies taught by Catholicism are perpetuated to this day in a religious ststem that has the most evil history, and has influenced all other "Christian" denominations in Christendom for 1500 years.

We all have to make choices with regard to our worship, in this "time of the end"....so they should be informed choices. No one has to believe what I say....but anyone can easily check for themselves. History itself is the greatest enemy of Roman Catholicism. It isn't hated for its good deeds...is it?

No one has anything to fear from the truth.

You have a lot of hate going on there.. Does it attract people to your congregation?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Anyone who knows what the Bible teaches, (and this is the only source of Christ's teachings) as opposed to what a church teaches, or how it interprets what he said, will have a long list of things that the RCC accepts as doctrine, that finds no place in scripture. If Jesus did not teach it, then it has no place in Christianity. The Reformation was based on this.

I don't think that Catholic people have any idea how far from Christ's teachings their church has strayed. And if they only listen to the church instead of taking a step back to see what they have really been a party to for centuries, then they will never see the truth. If we are going to trust anyone...they have to first prove worthy of our trust. How can you trust a church with such an horrendous past?

Even in the present, the billion dollars already donated to rebuild Notre Dame Cathedral is drawing a lot of flack from the general public who see that a billion dollars could be better spent on real and pressing human issues like starvation and poverty among the 40% of Latin American Catholics who are presently exiting Latin American countries, because its is now too dangerous to live there. Imagine the good that $17 billion dollars worth of art treasures could do for those of their own flock. Why is it withheld?

The Catholic Church has the funds to rebuild its own cathedral and the donated public money could be put to better use. Is a building worth more than human lives?



Contrary to what many assume, many things in the Bible is pictorial of something in the future. The religion practiced by the Jews ended up as human misinterpretation of what Moses taught. The final result, Jesus said, was "leaven"...a corrupting agent. (Mark 8:15) God's worship was corrupted just as Jesus' teachings were corrupted by misinterpretation of church leaders in the centuries following his death. He foretold that this would happen, but Christendom pretends it never did. The "weeds" of false Christianity were sown in the very early centuries and they grew rapidly to all but choke the "wheat" out of existence.

God, through his prophet Daniel, said that at "the time of the end", due to an abundance of knowledge that was to be made available at that time, a "cleansing, whitening and refining" of his worshippers would take place. (Daniel 12:4; 9-10) Why would he need to clean up his worship again if there was no need?

Just as Jesus cleaned up the worship of those Jews who responded to his ministry in the first century, so at this period in history, as God is poised to bring destruction on this entire world system under satan's control, (Daniel 2:44) he has cleaned up the worship offered through the teachings of his son. The "wicked" he said would not accept this cleansing and would carry on as before, understanding nothing.....given no insight.

Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism.



All I have done is draw attention to some very relevant and provable facts....the RCC does not have scriptural backing for anything it teaches.....it is all corrupted by men and replaced with doctrines of their own invention.

We can discuss these if you like, and the scriptural reasons for dismissing them.

Daniel wasn't alive during the time of Nebuchadnezzar.. Its not prophecy.. Its history.

Babylon is the head of gold; Medo-Persia, the chest and arms of silver; Greece, the belly and thighs of bronze; and Rome, the fourth kingdom, is the legs of iron.
 
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