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Bahaullah has revealed!

Muffled

Jesus in me
May I ask you what have you seen foundational that indicate Jesus heard from God, or was God, or Son of God?

I believe just about everything. This morning I was meditating on the fact that Jesus made a new covenant. However the old covenant was made by God, so how can Jesus make a new one unless He is God?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You’re an unusual Christian in the you also believe in Muhammad and the Quran. What is it that makes Muhammad a Prophet for you?

I believe it is the Qu'ran. Granted it isn't a direct word from God since it is through an angel but it is as good as and definitely has God's footprints all over it. Prophets don't make themselves. God makes ordinary men prophets.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I believe it is the Qu'ran. Granted it isn't a direct word from God since it is through an angel but it is as good as and definitely has God's footprints all over it. Prophets don't make themselves. God makes ordinary men prophets.
Kindly elaborate one's experience with Quran, please.
Regards
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I wasn’t following the conversation so what do you mean?
I made that clam that you have to separate what someone claims versus what he does. Tony disagreed, but he was referring just to Baha'u'llah whereas I was referring to all of humanity, including your guy.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
@paarsurrey

What you saw from @InvestigateTruth is emblematic of all my interactions with Bah'ai's on this forum. "Somehow the version that is given by Baha'u'llah and his family is the correct one - no amount of evidence to the contrary proves otherwise."

I have listed in my posts previously what I personally think of an individual who calls himself a manifestation and then invokes bygone figures and manufactures claims that are nowhere found in the original references (e.g no reference of any kind to Baha'u'llah in the Gita other than in Bah'ai works)

You seem to be more persistent in your need / desire to debate with individuals that cannot / will not see reason beyond their own noses -

You have uncovered what may be a glaring oversight and backed it up with solid opinions in multiple numbers
and yet what you get are apologetics and reasoning such as "Well it is not all revealed yet" - carry on - you seem to have more patience than some of us.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
@paarsurrey

What you saw from @InvestigateTruth is emblematic of all my interactions with Bah'ai's on this forum. "Somehow the version that is given by Baha'u'llah and his family is the correct one - no amount of evidence to the contrary proves otherwise."

I have listed in my posts previously what I personally think of an individual who calls himself a manifestation and then invokes bygone figures and manufactures claims that are nowhere found in the original references (e.g no reference of any kind to Baha'u'llah in the Gita other than in Bah'ai works)

You seem to be more persistent in your need / desire to debate with individuals that cannot / will not see reason beyond their own noses -

You have uncovered what may be a glaring oversight and backed it up with solid opinions in multiple numbers
and yet what you get are apologetics and reasoning such as "Well it is not all revealed yet" - carry on - you seem to have more patience than some of us.
It seems to me that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's claims to be the next Messiah are just as valid, if not moreso than Baha'u'llah's claims, yet we don't see Paarsurrey quoting excessively or constantly proclaiming his greatness. Makes one wonder why.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am the prime minister of Australia. I'll be coming over to your place this morning. Have the coffee ready, Tony.

If Baha'u'llah, Jesus or Muhammad had said to a person he was the Mesenger of God and was coming over for a cup of tea, he would not have been telling a lie, it would have been truthful and he would go.

Thus a person of Truth will be in their person and in their actions, also be the first to live by everything they offer.

So Vinayaka, you are welcome anytime for the coffee, as you, but there is an issue with your claim being AU prime minister and coming for a cup of coffee :):D some truth was missing.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
If Baha'u'llah, Jesus or Muhammad had said to a person he was the Mesenger of God and was coming over for a cup of tea, he would not have been telling a lie, it would have been truthful and he would go.

Thus a person of Truth will be in their person and in their actions, also be the first to live by everything they offer.

So Vinayaka, you are welcome anytime for the coffee, as you, but there is an issue with your claim being AU prime minister and coming for a cup of coffee :):D some truth was missing.

Regards Tony


So you were there, as Time Traveling Tony? Only the messengers can tell truth?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So you were there, as Time Traveling Tony? Only the messengers can tell truth?

I have read hundreds of first hand accounts. Even the enemies of the Faith could not refute the Honesty of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. That is the same for all that claim to give a Message from God.

If someone is truthful, then all the other virtues are also manifest. There are very few that can claim to be 100% trueful. I do not.

God knows our hearts and secrets. That they are not always exposed is pure bounty.

One thing Baha'u'llah has said that will happen in this age, is that all the great wrongs that are done in this age, that people think they do in secret, will not be hidden. I would have to look for that precise quote. I see that vision is great foresight.

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I have read hundreds of first hand accounts. Even the enemies of the Faith could not refute tge Honesty of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. That is the same for all that claim to give a Message from God.

If someone is truthful, then all the other virtues are also manifest. There are very few that can claim to be 100% trueful. I do not.

Gid knows our hearts and secrets. That they are not always exlosed is pue bounty.

One thing Baha'u'llah has said will happen in this age, is that all the great wrongs that are done in this age, that people think they do in secret, will not be hidden. I would have to look for that precise quote. I see that vision is great foresight.

Regards Tony

Hundreds?
First hand accounts, as you know, mean very little. There are lots of 'first hand accounts' for Muhammad and for the Bab, and Baha'u'llah that would considered 'suspect' like the owning of slaves, marrying more than once, or marrying children undue criticism of other faiths, and undue bragging about oneself. Of course, from the believer's POV, these would all be lies.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hundreds?
First hand accounts, as you know, mean very little. There are lots of 'first hand accounts' for Muhammad and for the Bab, and Baha'u'llah that would considered 'suspect' like the owning of slaves, marrying more than once, or marrying children undue criticism of other faiths, and undue bragging about oneself. Of course, from the believer's POV, these would all be lies.

The other choice is to consider if one is ignorant of the facts,to be just and do a search if there is any Truth before considering negation for the sake of negation.

Baha'u'llah put up the challenge to all those that oppsoed His Message, he asked them to go to where he was born and find out if what he offered was founded in a Truthful life or a lie. Considering how vehemently the Muslim divines tried to silence the Bab and Baha'u'llah, then if there was no truth to what Baha'u'llah and the Bab offered that would have been used right away. That it was never used in the time of Baha'u'llah, that says it all really.

The issue is we now live in an age of computer scholars that give credence to all that is posted on the net, with very little motivation to insure justice is maintained

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The other choice is to consider if one is ignorant of the facts,to be just and do a search if there is any Truth before considering negation for the sake of negation.

Baha'u'llah put up the challenge to all those that oppsoed His Message, he asked them to go to where he was born and find out if what he offered was founded in a Truthful life or a lie. Considering how vehemently the Muslim divines tried to silence the Bab and Baha'u'llah, then if there was no truth to what Baha'u'llah and the Bab offered that would have been used right away. That it was never used in the time of Baha'u'llah, that says it all really.

The issue is we now live in an age of computer scholars that give credence to all that is posted on the net, with very little motivation to insure justice is maintained

Being neutral, I have found credible information on both sides of such arguments. Interestingly, generally one has to be neutral in order to do that. Folks taking either side are blind to any evidence from the other side. It just gets discounted so quickly.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I have read hundreds of first hand accounts. Even the enemies of the Faith could not refute the Honesty of both the Bab and Baha'u'llah. That is the same for all that claim to give a Message from God.

If someone is truthful, then all the other virtues are also manifest. There are very few that can claim to be 100% trueful. I do not.

God knows our hearts and secrets. That they are not always exposed is pure bounty.

One thing Baha'u'llah has said that will happen in this age, is that all the great wrongs that are done in this age, that people think they do in secret, will not be hidden. I would have to look for that precise quote. I see that vision is great foresight.

Regards Tony
Oops...
Genesis 26:10-19
10Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, “Look, I know that you are a beautiful woman, 12and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me but will allow you to live. 13Please say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake, and on account of you my life will be spared.”

14So when Abram entered Egypt, the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. 15When Pharaoh’s officials saw Sarai, they commended her to him, and she was taken into the palace of Pharaoh. 16He treated Abram well on her account, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels.

17The LORD, however, afflicted Pharaoh and his household with severe plagues because of Abram’s wife Sarai. 18So Pharaoh summoned Abram and asked, “What have you done to me? Why did you not tell me she was your wife? 19Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her as my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!”
Was Adam a manifestation? If so he lied. Here Abraham lied. Moses killed a guy. So maybe, they are not manifestations of God, but ordinary man that made lots of mistakes but kept turning towards God.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The other choice is to consider if one is ignorant of the facts,to be just and do a search if there is any Truth before considering negation for the sake of negation.

Baha'u'llah put up the challenge to all those that oppsoed His Message, he asked them to go to where he was born and find out if what he offered was founded in a Truthful life or a lie. Considering how vehemently the Muslim divines tried to silence the Bab and Baha'u'llah, then if there was no truth to what Baha'u'llah and the Bab offered that would have been used right away. That it was never used in the time of Baha'u'llah, that says it all really.

The issue is we now live in an age of computer scholars that give credence to all that is posted on the net, with very little motivation to insure justice is maintained

Regards Tony
There is a few possible lies. If Jesus really came back from the dead, like the NT says, then Baha'u'llah is a liar. If Baha'u'llah is telling the truth, then the NT writers are the liars. Unless, like Baha'is say, the writers meant it to be symbolic. Then everybody's right, except those idiots that took the NT too literal.

Oh, and since Vinayaka is here, I've got to include Hinduism and reincarnation. Same thing, is Baha'u'llah correct or is he lying about reincarnation? Or, are most Hindus totally and completely wrong about their own religion? If they are... who lied to them about reincarnation? Krishna? Buddha? No, couldn't be them. They are manifestations and never lie. So where did that lie about reincarnation come from?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Oops...
Genesis 26:10-19
10Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, “Look, I know that you are a beautiful woman, 12and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me but will allow you to live. 13Please say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake, and on account of you my life will be spared.”

14So when Abram entered Egypt, the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. 15When Pharaoh’s officials saw Sarai, they commended her to him, and she was taken into the palace of Pharaoh. 16He treated Abram well on her account, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, menservants and maidservants, and camels.

17The LORD, however, afflicted Pharaoh and his household with severe plagues because of Abram’s wife Sarai. 18So Pharaoh summoned Abram and asked, “What have you done to me? Why did you not tell me she was your wife? 19Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her as my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!”
Was Adam a manifestation? If so he lied. Here Abraham lied. Moses killed a guy. So maybe, they are not manifestations of God, but ordinary man that made lots of mistakes but kept turning towards God.

If you wish to understand it that way. Baha'u'llah has explained all this...now what was that book...the Kitab-i-iqan. :D

At least I get to remember how to spell that book, who knows, you may read it. ;)

Regards Tony
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is a few possible lies. If Jesus really came back from the dead, like the NT says, then Baha'u'llah is a liar. If Baha'u'llah is telling the truth, then the NT writers are the liars. Unless, like Baha'is say, the writers meant it to be symbolic. Then everybody's right, except those idiots that took the NT too literal.

Oh, and since Vinayaka is here, I've got to include Hinduism and reincarnation. Same thing, is Baha'u'llah correct or is he lying about reincarnation? Or, are most Hindus totally and completely wrong about their own religion? If they are... who lied to them about reincarnation? Krishna? Buddha? No, couldn't be them. They are manifestations and never lie. So where did that lie about reincarnation come from?

I see none of that as lies.

Regards Tony
 
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