This thread was started because of a conversation between @shmogie and myself on the identity of the 144,000, but others are free to join in the discussion.
Here is how JW's understand the 144,000 of Revelation.
Beginning with Revelation 14:1-5 we read...
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish." (NWT)
Or from the NASB.....
"Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. 4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless."
So who are these 144,000 mentioned specifically only in Revelation?
We see these 144,000 "standing on Mount Zion" with Jesus. This is a heavenly location because "New Jerusalem" is the heavenly seat of God's worship, pictured by the earthly arrangement in one geographical location concerning the fleshly nation of Israel. We are now dealing with a group of Christians who have no particular geographical location as Jesus said. (John 4:21-24) Christians are an international body. The 144,000 are seen standing with Jesus, having an identification "written on their foreheads" as belonging to Christ and his Father.
These are singing a song that only they know, and it says that they have been "purchased from the earth" being bought by the blood of Christ. They are chaste, or spiritually undefiled. They follow the Lamb in whatever direction he leads them.
They are said to be "firstfruits" meaning that these are selected first from among mankind as those who will occupy positions in heaven as 'kings and priests' to rule over redeemed mankind on earth. (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:2-4) "Firstfruits" are the pick of the crop, with the secondary fruits to follow.....who are still perfectly acceptable, but not counted as favorably as the firstfruits.
These are resurrected "first" so that the Kingdom arrangement can begin ruling mankind as soon as God, by his Christ, cleanses the earth of all wickedness and those who practice it. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 25:31-33)
Now let's go to Revelation 7 and see who make up this exclusive group of Christ's followers.
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:. . . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” (NWT)
Or NASB
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:. . . . After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Is this literal Israel? Does literal Israel attribute salvation to Jesus Christ? Do they recognize Jesus as the one seated on the throne with his Father?
At Galatians 6:16 we will see whom the apostle Paul called "the Israel of God"......it was not just the Jews but those of any nation who came to accept Christ as Messiah and savior. This included Jews who saw Jesus as the one sent by God....the one heralded by John the Baptist....and who were the first to be taken into the Christian arrangement. A Fine Shepherd had led them out of a spiritually contaminated pen and into a new one...clean of all spiritual defilements and without the stain of blood on their hands. Later, Gentiles were added as those offered salvation as well, fulfilling God's promise to Abraham that "all nations would bless themselves" by means of the seed that he would send in his lineage. (Genesis 22:18)
By saying that these ones would "bless themselves" he was indicating that they had to take action in order to receive that blessing, just as the first Christians did.
Now notice that there is another group identified as a "great crowd" or "multitude". The first group is numbered but the second group cannot be counted. These are the ones who attribute salvation to God and his son who are seen in heaven surrounded by the 144,000.
Revelation 7:13-15...
"In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them." (NWT)
Or the NASB...
"Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them."
This second group are said to "come out of the great tribulation" which is to occur at the very end of this present system of things. It is included as part of the "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate that he was ruling in his Kingdom. (Matthew 24:3; Matthew 24:21) This meant that Christ's rulership was not to bring peace immediately....rather the opposite, as the Psalmist indicated in Psalm 110:1-2. Messiah was to "rule in the midst of his enemies".
So we see the 144,000 as "spiritual" Israelites, not fleshly Israelites unless they individually come to Christ and acknowledge him as Messiah. (Acts 10:34-35; Romans 2:28-29)
Those waiting for literal Israel to be converted to Christianity at the last moment, will be disappointed I believe.
They have had almost 2,000 years to think it over and to this day as a nation, they have not acknowledged 'the one who came in Jehovah's name'. (Matthew 23:37-39) They have found countless reasons to keep denying him.
So what do others believe with regard to the identity of the 144,000?
Here is how JW's understand the 144,000 of Revelation.
Beginning with Revelation 14:1-5 we read...
"Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. 2 I heard a sound coming out of heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; and the sound that I heard was like singers who accompany themselves by playing on their harps. 3 And they are singing what seems to be a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders, and no one was able to master that song except the 144,000, who have been bought from the earth. 4 These are the ones who did not defile themselves with women; in fact, they are virgins. These are the ones who keep following the Lamb no matter where he goes. These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb, 5 and no deceit was found in their mouths; they are without blemish." (NWT)
Or from the NASB.....
"Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven, like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder, and the voice which I heard was like the sound of harpists playing on their harps. 3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. 4 These are the ones who have not been defiled with women, for they have kept themselves chaste. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb. 5 And no lie was found in their mouth; they are blameless."
So who are these 144,000 mentioned specifically only in Revelation?
We see these 144,000 "standing on Mount Zion" with Jesus. This is a heavenly location because "New Jerusalem" is the heavenly seat of God's worship, pictured by the earthly arrangement in one geographical location concerning the fleshly nation of Israel. We are now dealing with a group of Christians who have no particular geographical location as Jesus said. (John 4:21-24) Christians are an international body. The 144,000 are seen standing with Jesus, having an identification "written on their foreheads" as belonging to Christ and his Father.
These are singing a song that only they know, and it says that they have been "purchased from the earth" being bought by the blood of Christ. They are chaste, or spiritually undefiled. They follow the Lamb in whatever direction he leads them.
They are said to be "firstfruits" meaning that these are selected first from among mankind as those who will occupy positions in heaven as 'kings and priests' to rule over redeemed mankind on earth. (Revelation 20:6; Revelation 21:2-4) "Firstfruits" are the pick of the crop, with the secondary fruits to follow.....who are still perfectly acceptable, but not counted as favorably as the firstfruits.
These are resurrected "first" so that the Kingdom arrangement can begin ruling mankind as soon as God, by his Christ, cleanses the earth of all wickedness and those who practice it. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 25:31-33)
Now let's go to Revelation 7 and see who make up this exclusive group of Christ's followers.
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel:. . . . .After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” (NWT)
Or NASB
And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:. . . . After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Is this literal Israel? Does literal Israel attribute salvation to Jesus Christ? Do they recognize Jesus as the one seated on the throne with his Father?
At Galatians 6:16 we will see whom the apostle Paul called "the Israel of God"......it was not just the Jews but those of any nation who came to accept Christ as Messiah and savior. This included Jews who saw Jesus as the one sent by God....the one heralded by John the Baptist....and who were the first to be taken into the Christian arrangement. A Fine Shepherd had led them out of a spiritually contaminated pen and into a new one...clean of all spiritual defilements and without the stain of blood on their hands. Later, Gentiles were added as those offered salvation as well, fulfilling God's promise to Abraham that "all nations would bless themselves" by means of the seed that he would send in his lineage. (Genesis 22:18)
By saying that these ones would "bless themselves" he was indicating that they had to take action in order to receive that blessing, just as the first Christians did.
Now notice that there is another group identified as a "great crowd" or "multitude". The first group is numbered but the second group cannot be counted. These are the ones who attribute salvation to God and his son who are seen in heaven surrounded by the 144,000.
Revelation 7:13-15...
"In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 That is why they are before the throne of God, and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne+ will spread his tent over them." (NWT)
Or the NASB...
"Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” 14 I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them."
This second group are said to "come out of the great tribulation" which is to occur at the very end of this present system of things. It is included as part of the "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate that he was ruling in his Kingdom. (Matthew 24:3; Matthew 24:21) This meant that Christ's rulership was not to bring peace immediately....rather the opposite, as the Psalmist indicated in Psalm 110:1-2. Messiah was to "rule in the midst of his enemies".
So we see the 144,000 as "spiritual" Israelites, not fleshly Israelites unless they individually come to Christ and acknowledge him as Messiah. (Acts 10:34-35; Romans 2:28-29)
Those waiting for literal Israel to be converted to Christianity at the last moment, will be disappointed I believe.
They have had almost 2,000 years to think it over and to this day as a nation, they have not acknowledged 'the one who came in Jehovah's name'. (Matthew 23:37-39) They have found countless reasons to keep denying him.
So what do others believe with regard to the identity of the 144,000?
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