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When did Jesus die?

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Did you write this or have you been hacked?

The Anointed said:
You believe that Jesus came out of the grave as the sunset on Saturday, what did he do during the 12 hours of darkness of Sunday night, before he appeared to the women at his empty tomb early next morning?

Correct! And like I have said before, you prove your ignorance to the scriptures. The Jewish day began at sunset and was divided into 12 hours of darkness followed by 12 hours of Daylight. Sunset on Saturday was the beginning of Sunday, after Sunday night, came Sunday morning. I hope you are learning something on this forum my girl.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Correct! And like I have said before, you prove your ignorance to the scriptures. The Jewish day began at sunset and was divided into 12 hours of darkness followed by 12 hours of Daylight. Sunset on Saturday was the beginning of Sunday, after Sunday night, came Sunday morning. I hope you are learning something on this forum my girl.

I know that. Its still just two sundowns.. Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
I know that. Its still just two sundowns.. Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.

Again, you run off at the mouth not knowing what is being discussed. The person I was responding to, believed that Jesus was buried as the sun set on Wednesday, which according to that person, Jesus was in the tomb Thursday night (Night one) Thursday (Day one) Friday night (Night two) Friday (Day two) Saturday night (Night Three) Saturday (Day Three) Three days and three nights.

I then asked that person, that if they believed that Jesus came out of the tomb at sunset on Saturday, what did he do during that 12 hours of Sunday night, before the tomb was found to be empty next morning, and You, No matter what you now say, believed that the next morning after the Sunday night, was Monday morning.

So don't lie, you only dig a deeper hole for yourself.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Again, you run off at the mouth not knowing what is being discussed. The person I was responding to, believed that Jesus was buried as the sun set on Wednesday, which according to that person, Jesus was in the tomb Thursday night (Night one) Thursday (Day one) Friday night (Night two) Friday (Day two) Saturday night (Night Three) Saturday (Day Three) Three days and three nights.

I then asked that person, that if they believed that Jesus came out of the tomb at sunset on Saturday, what did he do during that 12 hours of Sunday night, before the tomb was found to be empty next morning, and You, No matter what you now say, believed that the next morning after the Sunday night, was Monday morning.

So don't lie, you only dig a deeper hole for yourself.

You sure are rude and insulting. If Jesus was crucified on Friday and taken down from the cross Friday afternoon and rose on Sunday morning, he was in the tomb Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
You sure are rude and insulting. If Jesus was crucified on Friday and taken down from the cross Friday afternoon and rose on Sunday morning, he was in the tomb Friday sundown and Saturday sundown.

Our conversation was not about Jesus being buried as the sun set on Friday afternoon, but on Wednesday afternoon. Wake up to yourself Grandma. How many times must you be told, before it can get through those old grey hairs into your head?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I can only go by what Jesus said in John 11:9 "are there not twelve hours of light in the day" Nothing about three hours counting as a day. From sunset Wednesday to sunset Saturday includes three full twelve hour days and nights. Jesus said He would be in the tomb three full days and nights. I believe Him Apparently you do not.

I do not. I believe he purposely deceived the Pharisees into thinking He would rise on Monday.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If the death and resurrection of Jesus were real events, and were the most important events in human history, why did no one bother to write down when they happened? And it's not because it was 2000+ years ago. We know the exact date that Julius Caesar was assasinated, we know the exact date of Cleopatra's death, Mark Antony's birth, etc. The fact that we don't know the real date of Jesus' death is a good clue that the Easter story is a made-up sham.

I believe Jesus is important to Christians so the event is found in the Bible but for other people he was unimportant.

I believe that is false reasoning. The recording of one event does not affect the recording of other events.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I believe any part of a day is still a day. Now if he had said three full days I wold agree with you.
OK so lets take a look. Jesus did not say three full days and nights but He did say three days and three nights. So we have to finf three periods of daylight and three periods of darkness. So lets count. A short time Friday afternnon - day 1. Friday night - night 1. Saturday - day 2. Saturday night - night 2. A short time Sunday morning - day 3. But there is no third period of darkness. Where are the three nights?
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
I believe Jesus is important to Christians so the event is found in the Bible but for other people he was unimportant.

I believe that is false reasoning. The recording of one event does not affect the recording of other events.
For 99.9 % of the people alive when Jesus was alive, he was just another Jew put to death by the Romans. Nothing important about it so why would they write anytghing about it? The Gospel writers show that it was at the time of the Jewish Passover but do not give the year. Why? I guess we will never know. Maybe they did not realize how much it would influence people for thousands of years.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
For 99.9 % of the people alive when Jesus was alive, he was just another Jew put to death by the Romans. Nothing important about it so why would they write anytghing about it? The Gospel writers show that it was at the time of the Jewish Passover but do not give the year. Why? I guess we will never know. Maybe they did not realize how much it would influence people for thousands of years.

And if not for the Roman church of Emperor Constantine's desire to keep their myths alive, the story of Jesus would have died out.

Jesus, the grandson of Alexander Helios=Heli, the son of Mark Antony, was called God, the son of God, King of kings, etc, which was not unusual in those days. Originally, Cleopatra ruled with her father Ptolemy XII and later with her brothers, Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV, whom she married as per Egyptian custom, but eventually she became sole ruler.

No children were born from her union with her two brothers, but she did bear a son [Caesarion] to Julius Caesar, who was later elevated to co-ruler in name only. It is also written, at the time the assassination of Caesar by Brutus and his companions, that Cleopatra was living in Rome in a villa of Caesars, who then, fearing for her life also, fled Rome and returned to Alexandria in Egypt.

Cicero was to later write a series of letters alluding to the fact that she was at that time pregnant with a second child by Julius Caesar. If Caesarion, (The son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra,) who Augustus had murdered, had a full sister she would not have been seen as a threat to the new Caesar Augustus as Caesarion was, and would have been spared, as no woman could rule in Rome.

Cleopatra represented herself as the reincarnation of the Egyptian goddess ‘Isis’, and was given the title of “Queen of Kings” by Mark Anthony. Her son ‘Caesarion’ was also given many titles, including ‘god’, ‘Son of god’ and ‘King of Kings’ and was depicted as Horus the son of Isis. It was after the assassination of Caesar in 44 BC, that Cleopatra coupled up with Mark Anthony and in 40 BC she bore to him the twins Cleopatra Selene II and Alexander Helios, and later on another son, Ptolemy Philadelphus.

In late 34 BC, at the Donations of Alexandria, shortly after Anthony had conquered Armenia, Cleopatra and Caesarion were crowned rulers of Egypt and Cyprus. Alexander Helios, their six-year-old son, was crowned ruler of Aemenia, Media and Parthia; Cleopatra Selene II, Heli’s six-year-old twin sister, was crowned ruler of Cyrenaica and Libya, and Ptolemy Philadelphus, the younger of their three children was crowned ruler of Phoenicia, Syria and Cilicia.

Isis was the most popular goddess from the time of Psamtik 1 (663-610 B.C) till the coming of Christianity, her cult appealed to the Greeks and Romans alike and when Egypt came under Roman rule, her cult spread through much of Europe. By the time of Jesus, the chief centre of her worship was in Rome. Isis is commonly depicted with Horus the child (Harpocrates) on her lap, and today, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the late pagan and early Christian figures of the mother and child, [Isis and Horus---Mary and Jesus] it’s almost as though the old Pagan Queen was stripped of her mythical garments and clothed with the new covering of Christianity.

No one in those days, to who Jesus spoke in parables in order that hearing they would not understand, and seeing they would remain blind to the truth, except for the apostles, who received the secret teachings, would have been too interested in a man, who was born of Human parents and was chosen by the Lord as the one through who he would reveal himself to the world. Jesus, the one of who the Lord said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will raise up for them a prophet just like you from among their own brethren; and I will put MY WORDS into his mouth, and I will punish anyone who does not Heed MY WORDS which he shall speak in MY NAME.”

But an eternal God, who pre-existed the creation of the universe, who came down to earth some two thousand years ago, and entered the womb of some supposed ever virgin, where he created for himself a human like body, which was not of the seed of Adam and therefore not under the penalty of death that was imposed on Adam who has become Mankind, in order that he could walk the earth disguised as a human being; well now, there is a story that they could accept.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
And if not for the Roman church of Emperor Constantine's desire to keep their myths alive, the story of Jesus would have died out.

Jesus, the grandson of Alexander Helios=Heli, the son of Mark Antony, was called God, the son of God, King of kings, etc, which was not unusual in those days. Originally, Cleopatra ruled with her father Ptolemy XII and later with her brothers, Ptolemy XIII and Ptolemy XIV, whom she married as per Egyptian custom, but eventually she became sole ruler.

No children were born from her union with her two brothers, but she did bear a son [Caesarion] to Julius Caesar, who was later elevated to co-ruler in name only. It is also written, at the time the assassination of Caesar by Brutus and his companions, that Cleopatra was living in Rome in a villa of Caesars, who then, fearing for her life also, fled Rome and returned to Alexandria in Egypt.

Cicero was to later write a series of letters alluding to the fact that she was at that time pregnant with a second child by Julius Caesar. If Caesarion, (The son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra,) who Augustus had murdered, had a full sister she would not have been seen as a threat to the new Caesar Augustus as Caesarion was, and would have been spared, as no woman could rule in Rome.

Cleopatra represented herself as the reincarnation of the Egyptian goddess ‘Isis’, and was given the title of “Queen of Kings” by Mark Anthony. Her son ‘Caesarion’ was also given many titles, including ‘god’, ‘Son of god’ and ‘King of Kings’ and was depicted as Horus the son of Isis. It was after the assassination of Caesar in 44 BC, that Cleopatra coupled up with Mark Anthony and in 40 BC she bore to him the twins Cleopatra Selene II and Alexander Helios, and later on another son, Ptolemy Philadelphus.

In late 34 BC, at the Donations of Alexandria, shortly after Anthony had conquered Armenia, Cleopatra and Caesarion were crowned rulers of Egypt and Cyprus. Alexander Helios, their six-year-old son, was crowned ruler of Aemenia, Media and Parthia; Cleopatra Selene II, Heli’s six-year-old twin sister, was crowned ruler of Cyrenaica and Libya, and Ptolemy Philadelphus, the younger of their three children was crowned ruler of Phoenicia, Syria and Cilicia.

Isis was the most popular goddess from the time of Psamtik 1 (663-610 B.C) till the coming of Christianity, her cult appealed to the Greeks and Romans alike and when Egypt came under Roman rule, her cult spread through much of Europe. By the time of Jesus, the chief centre of her worship was in Rome. Isis is commonly depicted with Horus the child (Harpocrates) on her lap, and today, it is almost impossible to distinguish between the late pagan and early Christian figures of the mother and child, [Isis and Horus---Mary and Jesus] it’s almost as though the old Pagan Queen was stripped of her mythical garments and clothed with the new covering of Christianity.

No one in those days, to who Jesus spoke in parables in order that hearing they would not understand, and seeing they would remain blind to the truth, except for the apostles, who received the secret teachings, would have been too interested in a man, who was born of Human parents and was chosen by the Lord as the one through who he would reveal himself to the world. Jesus, the one of who the Lord said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will raise up for them a prophet just like you from among their own brethren; and I will put MY WORDS into his mouth, and I will punish anyone who does not Heed MY WORDS which he shall speak in MY NAME.”

But an eternal God, who pre-existed the creation of the universe, who came down to earth some two thousand years ago, and entered the womb of some supposed ever virgin, where he created for himself a human like body, which was not of the seed of Adam and therefore not under the penalty of death that was imposed on Adam who has become Mankind, in order that he could walk the earth disguised as a human being; well now, there is a story that they could accept.

Cleopatra of Jerusalem was a woman who lived in the 1st century BC during the Roman Empire. She was the fifth wife of King of Judea Herod the Great. There is a possibility that Cleopatra could have been a daughter of a local noble from Jerusalem.

Cleopatra of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_of_Jerusalem
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Cleopatra of Jerusalem was a woman who lived in the 1st century BC during the Roman Empire. She was the fifth wife of King of Judea Herod the Great. There is a possibility that Cleopatra could have been a daughter of a local noble from Jerusalem.

Cleopatra of Jerusalem - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra_of_Jerusalem

Although a practicing Jew, Herod the Great was an Arab, the son of an Edomite, named Antipater and whose mother was the daughter of a nobleman from Petra the capital of the rising Nabataean Kingdom.

In 63 BC, Antipater sided with Rome when Pompey invaded Palestine and in 47 BC Julius Caesar whose mistress Cleopatra was to later bear to him a son ‘Caesarion,’ appointed Antipater procurator of Judea and bestowed Roman citizenship upon him, an honour that was inherited by the Macedonian’s descendant, ‘Herod the Great’ and his sons.

At the age of 16, Herod met his lifelong friend Mark Antony of Macedonia, to who, in the year of 40 BC, on the 25TH December (An important date to remember) Cleopatra bore the twins whose names are Cleopatra Selene (Moon) and Alexander Helios (Sun) or Heli.

In 37 BC, the Roman senate nominated Herod as the King of Judea, a position he held for 32 years. Even after the defeat by Octavian, (who was to be known as the Emperor Augustus,) over his good friend Mark Antony at Actium (A promontory and ancient town of Macedonia) in 31 BC in their struggle for the throne of the assassinated Julius Caesar, Octavian who knew of Herod’s love and earlier support for his now deceased friend “Mark Antony,” never the less knew that Herod was the one who would best rule Palestine as he himself would want it to be ruled, and Herod and Augustus were to later become friends.

Cleopatra the wife of Herod the great is thought to have been the twin sister to Alexander Helios=Heli, who Herod had killed in 13 B.C, she bore a son to Herod who she named Philip after her young brother, Ptolemy Philadelphus.

During his reign, Herod the Great built many massive fortresses and splendid cities, amphitheatres, and hippodromes for the Grecian games inaugurated in honour of Augustus, but his most grandiose creation was the Temple in Jerusalem. Not only did he patronize the Olympic games, as did his sons, he was to become the president of those games, which, after his death continued to enjoy the support of his sons, Archelaus, Antipas, and his half-brother Philip from Bethsaida, who was very popular and accessible to the Greeks. It was to Philip of Bethsaida that the Greeks came, when seeking an audience with Jesus.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana, and is believed to have been the son of Herod the Greats sister.

With a brother such as Herod and a patroness such as Livia, Salome must have been a wealthy woman. When Herod died in 4 BCE she became even wealthier.[50] Herod bequeathed his sister a toparchy (a small state) which included the cities of Jamnia, Ashdod, and Phasaelis, from which she received revenue of sixty talents per annum.[51] His bequest to Salome also included five hundred thousand drachmae of coined silver. Caesar Augustus supplemented Herod’s bequest to Salome with a royal palace at Ashkelon. Salome was truly a powerful woman, and now, with her inheritance, her influence could be felt outside of Herod’s court.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana where Jesus performed his first miracle at the insistence of his mother, who it would appear had some hand in the organization of the wedding. Herod’s descendants were not only the temporal rulers, but also the spiritual rulers of Palestine or parts thereof during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus.

In his youth, Herod had married a woman named Doris, the mother of his first born son “Antipater’ who he later disinherited and killed. Because he was of Idumaean/Hittite/Macedonian descent, and hated by the Jews, he attempted to appease them by marrying a Jewess by the name Mariamne, a descendant of the Maccabees family of Jewish patriots, whom he actually loved. Mariamne, who had insisted that her brother be appointed high priest, was the daughter of Salome=Alexandra, an heir from the old ruling Hasmonaean line and she is not to be confused with the niece of Herod Antipas, whose name is THOUGHT to have been ‘Salome’ the daughter of Herodias the wife of Philip the son of Herod who ruled from Bethsaida) and who was the half-brother to Herod Antipas.

With the support of the Queen of Egypt ‘Cleopatra’, a close friend of the Jewess Salome = Alexandra, (The should have been queen) of the Hasmonaean line, which was defeated by Pompey, Salome attempted to have Herod ousted in favour of her grandsons, Alexander and Aristobulus, finally ‘Herod the Great,’ had Mariamne, her brother and her two sons, plus her mother and grandfather all killed, although one of Mariamne’s grandsons, ‘Herod Agrippa 1’ survived to rule in Palestine from about the late 41 AD to 44 AD.

According to the Encyclopedia Britt, ‘Philip of Bethdaida, [Herod Philadelphus Boethus] the only son of a young Jewess by the name of ‘Cleopatra’ (A Macedonian name) who was sired by her husband ‘Herod the Great’ was born in 20/19 B.C. This was not Cleopatra the Queen of Egypt who in 40 BC, gave birth to her twins Cleopatra Selena and Alexandra Helios (Heli), the children of Mark Antony the Macedonian, and a few years later a younger brother to Selena and Heli, who was named Philadelphus.

Cleopatra Selena would have been about 20/21 years of age at the time of the birth of Philip [ Herod Philadelphus] who was about 14/15 years older than ‘Jesus’ who was born around 6 BC as the grandson of Alexander Helios [Heli,] and the son of Mary from the tribe of Levi, whose Aunty Elizabeth, were both, the daughters of the house of Levi.

Philip [Philadelphus] the son of Cleopatra and Herod the Great, married his niece Herodias the daughter of his half brother Aristobulus, one of two sons of Miriamne, who were murdered by Herod the Great.

Herodias the mother of Philips daughter, eventually left her husband Philip to live with his half brother Herod Antipas. the tetrarch of Galilee.

After the death of his father, Herod the Great in 4 B.C, Philip was given control of southern Lebanon and modern Syria, to the east of the Lake Galilee, and Philip was a model ruler of whom almost nothing is known except for the fact that he ruled (throughout the life of Jesus) the district in which Jesus spent much of his ministerial time and in which he worked most of his miracles. Matthew 11: 20-21, “The people in the towns where Jesus performed MOST of his MIGHTY MIRACLES, did not turn from their sins, so he reproached those towns on the eastern side of the lake, “How terrible it will be for you, Chorazin! How terrible for you too, Bethsaida etc.”

It was outside the walls of ‘Bethsaida Julias’ that had been rebuilt by Philip, that Jesus healed a blind man, See Mark 8: 22-26. It was in Caesarea Philippi, which according to Luke in Acts 16: 12; was the chief city in that part of Macedonia, a city rebuilt by Philip, (PHILIP, is a Macedonian name) that Jesus asked his disciples ‘who people were saying he was.’ It was in this district that Philip from Bethsaida played a part in the multiplication of the loaves and the fishes, and in medieval art Philips symbol was loaves, See John 6: 1-7 where Jesus puts Philip to the test.

The last Testament of Herod the Great, which was approved by Augustus, provided that Archelaus receive ruler ship of Judea, with Philip and Antipas ruling two of the remaining tetrarch’s.

When returning from Egypt with Mary and her child Jesus after the death of Herod the Great, Joseph wanted to live in the land of Judaea rather than to return to their home in Nazareth near Bethlehem of Galilee, which town today, is called “Beithlahm,” and is only a few kilometres from Sepphorus, which towns suffered extensive damage in the great riots of 4BC, which was the same year in which Herod died after a failed suicide attempt, (Which suicide I believe,) was at the command of Caesar, because of the riots that he caused in the territory around Bethlehem/Beitlahm, Nazareth and Sepphorus, in which so many families were murdered and others removed to Rome where they were sold as slaves. Those riots occurred immediately after the parents of the young, ‘one to two’ year old Jesus were warned to flee from their home in Nazareth into Egypt.

The reason why Joseph ben Jacob, the step-father to Jesus, who, on their return from Egypt after the death of Herod the Great, wanted to live in Judea and yet was afraid to live there, was because Herod’s son, the cruel, depraved, and despised Herod Archelaus was ruling there. For this reason they returned to Nazareth in Galilee.

Archelaus was later recalled to Rome and banished because he had antagonized the entire population of Judea and Samaria. Judea then became a Roman province and the Herod, who was in Jerusalem at the time of Passover when Jesus was being tried by Pontius Pilate, was Herod Antipas who ruled from Sepphorus and Jericho, [Not the Jericho that was destroyed by the Israelites, which city has never been rebuilt] and was the Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded at the request of Herodias the wife of Philip, mother of Philip’s daughter and sister to Herod Agrippa I, Herodias and Agrippa I, both having been sired by Aristobulus the son of Miriamne.

In 34 AD, shortly after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Philip’s reign came to an abrupt end. Philip of Bethsaida simply vanishes from the pages of history, and in 36 AD, Herod Agrippa I, the grandson of Herod the Great and nephew of Herod Philip and Herod Antipas, received the tetrarch of the Macedonian district of Batanaera and Trachonitis to the east of the sea of Galilee, formerly held by his uncle Philip.

When Herod Antipas and Herodias tried to discredit Agrippa I, who was in favour with the Emperor Caligula, they themselves were banished, Antipas’ tetrarch passing on to Agrippa 1 in AD 39. Then in 41 AD and after the assassination of Caligula, Agrippa’s support for Claudius was rewarded with the government of Judea, which had, since the banishment of Herod Archelaus, been ruled by Roman procurators for about 30 years. It was this Herod who enjoyed the support and adoration of the Jewish authorities, who did all in his power to crush the infant Jewish Apostolic Church.

It was he who executed James, the son Zebedee whose mother, is believed to have been named Salome, a sister of Jesus, and a close friend of Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s minister of finances, who was one of the women who supported Jesus using their own resources. And Agrippa would have killed Peter also, had he not have escaped from prison. Agrippa’s sudden death in 44 AD is recorded in Acts 12: 21-23.

Bethsaida on the eastern side of the Jordan in the old Macedonian territory where it enters Lake Galilee, was the birth place of Peter and his brother Andrew, who were close friends of Philip, who with Andrew, were the two men to who John the Baptist pointed out Jesus, the son of Mary his cousin, as the one whom the ‘LIGHT of MAN’ had chosen, as the man through who he would reveal himself to the world; the man that he had promised Moses that he would in the future, raise up from among the Israelites, the one who would come in the name of the Lord ‘Who I Am’ and speak only that which he was commanded to say by ‘Who I Am’ [The Son of Man] and the Most High in the creation.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
Cleopatra the wife of Herod the great is thought to have been the twin sister to Alexander Helios=Heli, who Herod had killed in 13 B.C, she bore a son to Herod who she named Philip after her young brother, Ptolemy Philadelphus.

During his reign, Herod the Great built many massive fortresses and splendid cities, amphitheatres, and hippodromes for the Grecian games inaugurated in honour of Augustus, but his most grandiose creation was the Temple in Jerusalem. Not only did he patronize the Olympic games, as did his sons, he was to become the president of those games, which, after his death continued to enjoy the support of his sons, Archelaus, Antipas, and his half-brother Philip from Bethsaida, who was very popular and accessible to the Greeks. It was to Philip of Bethsaida that the Greeks came, when seeking an audience with Jesus.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana, and is believed to have been the son of Herod the Greats sister.

With a brother such as Herod and a patroness such as Livia, Salome must have been a wealthy woman. When Herod died in 4 BCE she became even wealthier.[50] Herod bequeathed his sister a toparchy (a small state) which included the cities of Jamnia, Ashdod, and Phasaelis, from which she received revenue of sixty talents per annum.[51] His bequest to Salome also included five hundred thousand drachmae of coined silver. Caesar Augustus supplemented Herod’s bequest to Salome with a royal palace at Ashkelon. Salome was truly a powerful woman, and now, with her inheritance, her influence could be felt outside of Herod’s court.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana where Jesus performed his first miracle at the insistence of his mother, who it would appear had some hand in the organization of the wedding. Herod’s descendants were not only the temporal rulers, but also the spiritual rulers of Palestine or parts thereof during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus.

In his youth, Herod had married a woman named Doris, the mother of his first born son “Antipater’ who he later disinherited and killed. Because he was of Idumaean/Hittite/Macedonian descent, and hated by the Jews, he attempted to appease them by marrying a Jewess by the name Mariamne, a descendant of the Maccabees family of Jewish patriots, whom he actually loved. Mariamne, who had insisted that her brother be appointed high priest, was the daughter of Salome=Alexandra, an heir from the old ruling Hasmonaean line and she is not to be confused with the niece of Herod Antipas, whose name is THOUGHT to have been ‘Salome’ the daughter of Herodias the wife of Philip the son of Herod who ruled from Bethsaida) and who was the half-brother to Herod Antipas.

With the support of the Queen of Egypt ‘Cleopatra’, a close friend of the Jewess Salome = Alexandra, (The should have been queen) of the Hasmonaean line, which was defeated by Pompey, Salome attempted to have Herod ousted in favour of her grandsons, Alexander and Aristobulus, finally ‘Herod the Great,’ had Mariamne, her brother and her two sons, plus her mother and grandfather all killed, although one of Mariamne’s grandsons, ‘Herod Agrippa 1’ survived to rule in Palestine from about the late 41 AD to 44 AD.

According to the Encyclopedia Britt, ‘Philip of Bethdaida, [Herod Philadelphus Boethus] the only son of a young Jewess by the name of ‘Cleopatra’ (A Macedonian name) who was sired by her husband ‘Herod the Great’ was born in 20/19 B.C. This was not Cleopatra the Queen of Egypt who in 40 BC, gave birth to her twins Cleopatra Selena and Alexandra Helios (Heli), the children of Mark Antony the Macedonian, and a few years later a younger brother to Selena and Heli, who was named Philadelphus.

Cleopatra Selena would have been about 20/21 years of age at the time of the birth of Philip [ Herod Philadelphus] who was about 14/15 years older than ‘Jesus’ who was born around 6 BC as the grandson of Alexander Helios [Heli,] and the son of Mary from the tribe of Levi, whose Aunty Elizabeth, were both, the daughters of the house of Levi.

Philip [Philadelphus] the son of Cleopatra and Herod the Great, married his niece Herodias the daughter of his half brother Aristobulus, one of two sons of Miriamne, who were murdered by Herod the Great.

Herodias the mother of Philips daughter, eventually left her husband Philip to live with his half brother Herod Antipas. the tetrarch of Galilee.

After the death of his father, Herod the Great in 4 B.C, Philip was given control of southern Lebanon and modern Syria, to the east of the Lake Galilee, and Philip was a model ruler of whom almost nothing is known except for the fact that he ruled (throughout the life of Jesus) the district in which Jesus spent much of his ministerial time and in which he worked most of his miracles. Matthew 11: 20-21, “The people in the towns where Jesus performed MOST of his MIGHTY MIRACLES, did not turn from their sins, so he reproached those towns on the eastern side of the lake, “How terrible it will be for you, Chorazin! How terrible for you too, Bethsaida etc.”

It was outside the walls of ‘Bethsaida Julias’ that had been rebuilt by Philip, that Jesus healed a blind man, See Mark 8: 22-26. It was in Caesarea Philippi, which according to Luke in Acts 16: 12; was the chief city in that part of Macedonia, a city rebuilt by Philip, (PHILIP, is a Macedonian name) that Jesus asked his disciples ‘who people were saying he was.’ It was in this district that Philip from Bethsaida played a part in the multiplication of the loaves and the fishes, and in medieval art Philips symbol was loaves, See John 6: 1-7 where Jesus puts Philip to the test.

The last Testament of Herod the Great, which was approved by Augustus, provided that Archelaus receive ruler ship of Judea, with Philip and Antipas ruling two of the remaining tetrarch’s.

When returning from Egypt with Mary and her child Jesus after the death of Herod the Great, Joseph wanted to live in the land of Judaea rather than to return to their home in Nazareth near Bethlehem of Galilee, which town today, is called “Beithlahm,” and is only a few kilometres from Sepphorus, which towns suffered extensive damage in the great riots of 4BC, which was the same year in which Herod died after a failed suicide attempt, (Which suicide I believe,) was at the command of Caesar, because of the riots that he caused in the territory around Bethlehem/Beitlahm, Nazareth and Sepphorus, in which so many families were murdered and others removed to Rome where they were sold as slaves. Those riots occurred immediately after the parents of the young, ‘one to two’ year old Jesus were warned to flee from their home in Nazareth into Egypt.

The reason why Joseph ben Jacob, the step-father to Jesus, who, on their return from Egypt after the death of Herod the Great, wanted to live in Judea and yet was afraid to live there, was because Herod’s son, the cruel, depraved, and despised Herod Archelaus was ruling there. For this reason they returned to Nazareth in Galilee.

Archelaus was later recalled to Rome and banished because he had antagonized the entire population of Judea and Samaria. Judea then became a Roman province and the Herod, who was in Jerusalem at the time of Passover when Jesus was being tried by Pontius Pilate, was Herod Antipas who ruled from Sepphorus and Jericho, [Not the Jericho that was destroyed by the Israelites, which city has never been rebuilt] and was the Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded at the request of Herodias the wife of Philip, mother of Philip’s daughter and sister to Herod Agrippa I, Herodias and Agrippa I, both having been sired by Aristobulus the son of Miriamne.

In 34 AD, shortly after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Philip’s reign came to an abrupt end. Philip of Bethsaida simply vanishes from the pages of history, and in 36 AD, Herod Agrippa I, the grandson of Herod the Great and nephew of Herod Philip and Herod Antipas, received the tetrarch of the Macedonian district of Batanaera and Trachonitis to the east of the sea of Galilee, formerly held by his uncle Philip.

When Herod Antipas and Herodias tried to discredit Agrippa I, who was in favour with the Emperor Caligula, they themselves were banished, Antipas’ tetrarch passing on to Agrippa 1 in AD 39. Then in 41 AD and after the assassination of Caligula, Agrippa’s support for Claudius was rewarded with the government of Judea, which had, since the banishment of Herod Archelaus, been ruled by Roman procurators for about 30 years. It was this Herod who enjoyed the support and adoration of the Jewish authorities, who did all in his power to crush the infant Jewish Apostolic Church.

It was he who executed James, the son Zebedee whose mother, is believed to have been named Salome, a sister of Jesus, and a close friend of Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s minister of finances, who was one of the women who supported Jesus using their own resources. And Agrippa would have killed Peter also, had he not have escaped from prison. Agrippa’s sudden death in 44 AD is recorded in Acts 12: 21-23.

Bethsaida on the eastern side of the Jordan in the old Macedonian territory where it enters Lake Galilee, was the birth place of Peter and his brother Andrew, who were close friends of Philip, who with Andrew, were the two men to who John the Baptist pointed out Jesus, the son of Mary his cousin, as the one whom the ‘LIGHT of MAN’ had chosen, as the man through who he would reveal himself to the world; the man that he had promised Moses that he would in the future, raise up from among the Israelites, the one who would come in the name of the Lord ‘Who I Am’ and speak only that which he was commanded to say by ‘Who I Am’ [The Son of Man] and the Most High in the creation.

There is some confusion about when Herod died and the eclipse.. or, that his rule may have ended a couple years before his death.

Did Herod the "Great" Really Die In 4 B.C.?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Cleopatra the wife of Herod the great is thought to have been the twin sister to Alexander Helios=Heli, who Herod had killed in 13 B.C, she bore a son to Herod who she named Philip after her young brother, Ptolemy Philadelphus.

During his reign, Herod the Great built many massive fortresses and splendid cities, amphitheatres, and hippodromes for the Grecian games inaugurated in honour of Augustus, but his most grandiose creation was the Temple in Jerusalem. Not only did he patronize the Olympic games, as did his sons, he was to become the president of those games, which, after his death continued to enjoy the support of his sons, Archelaus, Antipas, and his half-brother Philip from Bethsaida, who was very popular and accessible to the Greeks. It was to Philip of Bethsaida that the Greeks came, when seeking an audience with Jesus.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana, and is believed to have been the son of Herod the Greats sister.

With a brother such as Herod and a patroness such as Livia, Salome must have been a wealthy woman. When Herod died in 4 BCE she became even wealthier.[50] Herod bequeathed his sister a toparchy (a small state) which included the cities of Jamnia, Ashdod, and Phasaelis, from which she received revenue of sixty talents per annum.[51] His bequest to Salome also included five hundred thousand drachmae of coined silver. Caesar Augustus supplemented Herod’s bequest to Salome with a royal palace at Ashkelon. Salome was truly a powerful woman, and now, with her inheritance, her influence could be felt outside of Herod’s court.

Tetrarch, in Greek, means ‘Ruler of a quarter,’ Nathanael who was introduced to Jesus by Phillip, lived in the town of Cana where Jesus performed his first miracle at the insistence of his mother, who it would appear had some hand in the organization of the wedding. Herod’s descendants were not only the temporal rulers, but also the spiritual rulers of Palestine or parts thereof during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus.

In his youth, Herod had married a woman named Doris, the mother of his first born son “Antipater’ who he later disinherited and killed. Because he was of Idumaean/Hittite/Macedonian descent, and hated by the Jews, he attempted to appease them by marrying a Jewess by the name Mariamne, a descendant of the Maccabees family of Jewish patriots, whom he actually loved. Mariamne, who had insisted that her brother be appointed high priest, was the daughter of Salome=Alexandra, an heir from the old ruling Hasmonaean line and she is not to be confused with the niece of Herod Antipas, whose name is THOUGHT to have been ‘Salome’ the daughter of Herodias the wife of Philip the son of Herod who ruled from Bethsaida) and who was the half-brother to Herod Antipas.

With the support of the Queen of Egypt ‘Cleopatra’, a close friend of the Jewess Salome = Alexandra, (The should have been queen) of the Hasmonaean line, which was defeated by Pompey, Salome attempted to have Herod ousted in favour of her grandsons, Alexander and Aristobulus, finally ‘Herod the Great,’ had Mariamne, her brother and her two sons, plus her mother and grandfather all killed, although one of Mariamne’s grandsons, ‘Herod Agrippa 1’ survived to rule in Palestine from about the late 41 AD to 44 AD.

According to the Encyclopedia Britt, ‘Philip of Bethdaida, [Herod Philadelphus Boethus] the only son of a young Jewess by the name of ‘Cleopatra’ (A Macedonian name) who was sired by her husband ‘Herod the Great’ was born in 20/19 B.C. This was not Cleopatra the Queen of Egypt who in 40 BC, gave birth to her twins Cleopatra Selena and Alexandra Helios (Heli), the children of Mark Antony the Macedonian, and a few years later a younger brother to Selena and Heli, who was named Philadelphus.

Cleopatra Selena would have been about 20/21 years of age at the time of the birth of Philip [ Herod Philadelphus] who was about 14/15 years older than ‘Jesus’ who was born around 6 BC as the grandson of Alexander Helios [Heli,] and the son of Mary from the tribe of Levi, whose Aunty Elizabeth, were both, the daughters of the house of Levi.

Philip [Philadelphus] the son of Cleopatra and Herod the Great, married his niece Herodias the daughter of his half brother Aristobulus, one of two sons of Miriamne, who were murdered by Herod the Great.

Herodias the mother of Philips daughter, eventually left her husband Philip to live with his half brother Herod Antipas. the tetrarch of Galilee.

After the death of his father, Herod the Great in 4 B.C, Philip was given control of southern Lebanon and modern Syria, to the east of the Lake Galilee, and Philip was a model ruler of whom almost nothing is known except for the fact that he ruled (throughout the life of Jesus) the district in which Jesus spent much of his ministerial time and in which he worked most of his miracles. Matthew 11: 20-21, “The people in the towns where Jesus performed MOST of his MIGHTY MIRACLES, did not turn from their sins, so he reproached those towns on the eastern side of the lake, “How terrible it will be for you, Chorazin! How terrible for you too, Bethsaida etc.”

It was outside the walls of ‘Bethsaida Julias’ that had been rebuilt by Philip, that Jesus healed a blind man, See Mark 8: 22-26. It was in Caesarea Philippi, which according to Luke in Acts 16: 12; was the chief city in that part of Macedonia, a city rebuilt by Philip, (PHILIP, is a Macedonian name) that Jesus asked his disciples ‘who people were saying he was.’ It was in this district that Philip from Bethsaida played a part in the multiplication of the loaves and the fishes, and in medieval art Philips symbol was loaves, See John 6: 1-7 where Jesus puts Philip to the test.

The last Testament of Herod the Great, which was approved by Augustus, provided that Archelaus receive ruler ship of Judea, with Philip and Antipas ruling two of the remaining tetrarch’s.

When returning from Egypt with Mary and her child Jesus after the death of Herod the Great, Joseph wanted to live in the land of Judaea rather than to return to their home in Nazareth near Bethlehem of Galilee, which town today, is called “Beithlahm,” and is only a few kilometres from Sepphorus, which towns suffered extensive damage in the great riots of 4BC, which was the same year in which Herod died after a failed suicide attempt, (Which suicide I believe,) was at the command of Caesar, because of the riots that he caused in the territory around Bethlehem/Beitlahm, Nazareth and Sepphorus, in which so many families were murdered and others removed to Rome where they were sold as slaves. Those riots occurred immediately after the parents of the young, ‘one to two’ year old Jesus were warned to flee from their home in Nazareth into Egypt.

The reason why Joseph ben Jacob, the step-father to Jesus, who, on their return from Egypt after the death of Herod the Great, wanted to live in Judea and yet was afraid to live there, was because Herod’s son, the cruel, depraved, and despised Herod Archelaus was ruling there. For this reason they returned to Nazareth in Galilee.

Archelaus was later recalled to Rome and banished because he had antagonized the entire population of Judea and Samaria. Judea then became a Roman province and the Herod, who was in Jerusalem at the time of Passover when Jesus was being tried by Pontius Pilate, was Herod Antipas who ruled from Sepphorus and Jericho, [Not the Jericho that was destroyed by the Israelites, which city has never been rebuilt] and was the Herod who had John the Baptist beheaded at the request of Herodias the wife of Philip, mother of Philip’s daughter and sister to Herod Agrippa I, Herodias and Agrippa I, both having been sired by Aristobulus the son of Miriamne.

In 34 AD, shortly after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Philip’s reign came to an abrupt end. Philip of Bethsaida simply vanishes from the pages of history, and in 36 AD, Herod Agrippa I, the grandson of Herod the Great and nephew of Herod Philip and Herod Antipas, received the tetrarch of the Macedonian district of Batanaera and Trachonitis to the east of the sea of Galilee, formerly held by his uncle Philip.

When Herod Antipas and Herodias tried to discredit Agrippa I, who was in favour with the Emperor Caligula, they themselves were banished, Antipas’ tetrarch passing on to Agrippa 1 in AD 39. Then in 41 AD and after the assassination of Caligula, Agrippa’s support for Claudius was rewarded with the government of Judea, which had, since the banishment of Herod Archelaus, been ruled by Roman procurators for about 30 years. It was this Herod who enjoyed the support and adoration of the Jewish authorities, who did all in his power to crush the infant Jewish Apostolic Church.

It was he who executed James, the son Zebedee whose mother, is believed to have been named Salome, a sister of Jesus, and a close friend of Joanna the wife of Chuza, Herod’s minister of finances, who was one of the women who supported Jesus using their own resources. And Agrippa would have killed Peter also, had he not have escaped from prison. Agrippa’s sudden death in 44 AD is recorded in Acts 12: 21-23.

Bethsaida on the eastern side of the Jordan in the old Macedonian territory where it enters Lake Galilee, was the birth place of Peter and his brother Andrew, who were close friends of Philip, who with Andrew, were the two men to who John the Baptist pointed out Jesus, the son of Mary his cousin, as the one whom the ‘LIGHT of MAN’ had chosen, as the man through who he would reveal himself to the world; the man that he had promised Moses that he would in the future, raise up from among the Israelites, the one who would come in the name of the Lord ‘Who I Am’ and speak only that which he was commanded to say by ‘Who I Am’ [The Son of Man] and the Most High in the creation.


Berenice of Cilicia, also known as Julia Berenice and sometimes spelled Bernice (Greek: Βερενίκη, Bereníkē; 28 AD – after 81), was a Jewish client queen of the Roman Empire during the second half of the 1st century.

Berenice was a member of the Herodian Dynasty that ruled the Roman province of Judaea between 39 BC and 92 AD. She was the daughter of King Herod Agrippa I and a sister of King Herod Agrippa II.

What little is known about her life and background comes mostly from the early historian Flavius Josephus.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Berenice of Cilicia, also known as Julia Berenice and sometimes spelled Bernice (Greek: Βερενίκη, Bereníkē; 28 AD – after 81), was a Jewish client queen of the Roman Empire during the second half of the 1st century.

Berenice was a member of the Herodian Dynasty that ruled the Roman province of Judaea between 39 BC and 92 AD. She was the daughter of King Herod Agrippa I and a sister of King Herod Agrippa II.

What little is known about her life and background comes mostly from the early historian Flavius Josephus.

What a top historian was Flavius Josephus, who identified the shepherd kings as Israelites, who left Egypt in the year of 1567 B.C., some 40 years before the finale destruction of Jericho, which has never been rebuilt.
 
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sooda

Veteran Member
What a top historian was Flavius Josephus, who identified the shepherd kings as Israelites, who left Egypt in the year of 1567 B.C., some 40 years before the finale destruction of Jericho, which has never been rebuilt.

Archaeologists have unearthed the remains of more than 20 successive settlements in Jericho, the first of which dates back 11,000 years (9000 BCE), almost to the very beginning of the Holocene epoch of the Earth's history.

Copious springs in and around the city have attracted human habitation for thousands of years. Jericho is described in the Hebrew Bible as the "city of palm trees" (Deuteronomy 34:3).

snip

Kathleen Kenyon reported "the Middle Bronze Age is perhaps the most prosperous in the whole history of Kna'an. ... The defenses ... belong to a fairly advanced date in that period" and there was "a massive stone revetment ... part of a complex system" of defenses. Bronze Age Jericho fell in the 16th century at the end of the Middle Bronze Age, the calibrated carbon remains from its City-IV destruction layer dating to 1617–1530 BCE.

Notably this carbon dating c. 1573 BCE confirmed the accuracy of the stratigraphical dating c. 1550 by Kenyon.

Late Bronze Age
There was evidence of a small settlement in the Late Bronze Age (c. 1400s BCE) on the site, but erosion and destruction from previous excavations have erased significant parts of this layer.

Iron Age
Tell es-Sultan remained unoccupied from the end of the 15th to the 10th–9th centuries BCE, when the city was rebuilt. Of this new city not much more remains than a four-room house on the eastern slope. By the 7th century, Jericho had become an extensive town, but this settlement was destroyed in the Babylonian conquest of Judah in the late 6th century.

Persian and Early Hellenistic periods
After the destruction of the Judahite city by the Babylonians in the late 6th century, whatever was rebuilt in the Persian period as part of the Restoration after the Babylonian captivity, left only very few remains. The tell was abandoned as a place of settlement not long after this period. During the Persian through Hellenistic periods, there is little in terms of occupation attested throughout the region.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Josephus the historian, who Identifies the Shepherd kings as the Israelites, claims that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Josephus the historian, who Identifies the Shepherd kings as the Israelites, claims that they left Egypt in 1567 B.C.

Kathleen Kenyon, a most respected archaeologist dug at Jericho over the seasons between 1952 to 1958, her results were confirmed in 1995 by radiocarbon tests, which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (Plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%.

The radiocarbon tests which dated the destruction of Jericho to 1562 BC (plus/minus 38 years) with a certainty of 95%, confirm that the biblical date of 1527 BC for the destruction, agrees with Kathleen Kenyon’s findings.

1562 (minus 38 years) [1562-38=1524 BC.] this would mean that Jericho fell somewhere between 1562 and 1524 BC, close enough to the 40 years after Josephus’ date for the Exodus in 1567. [1567-40=1527 BC]

You're still wrong on all counts. Josephus called them Shepard kings the wrong name and NEVER claimed they were Israelite.

The myth of Moses is circa 1400 to 1000 BC.

Jericho was rebuilt during the late Bronze Age, again during the Iron Age and again during the Hellenistic period.
 
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