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Conversing with religious fundamentalists

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
They can't say "Yes, when our forefathers left Egypt and wandered in the wilderness..." "When Moses went up the mountain and brought the commandments." "When David killed Goliath..." None of it is real. All that they were supposed to do with those stories is figure out the symbolic message?

Yes that is the purpose of the stories, the stories are also based on actual events.

Lets use Baha'u'llah's moment in prison as an example, He has said;

"...During the days I lay in the prison of Ṭihrán, though the galling weight of the chains and the stench-filled air allowed Me but little sleep, still in those infrequent moments of slumber I felt as if something flowed from the crown of My head over My breast, even as a mighty torrent that precipitateth itself upon the earth from the summit of a lofty mountain. Every limb of My body would, as a result, be set afire. At such moments My tongue recited what no man could bear to hear......"

From that remark and because it is recent history we can see what was a material fact and what is spiritual metephor.

It does not mean every limb of Baha'u'llah was on fire.

If it was not recorded for a while and passed verbally, if one started taking all aspects literally, then error creeps in.

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
And Cyrus was called the anointed one.

King James Bible Isaiah 45:1

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Exactly. He wasn’t even a Jew but most likely a Zoroastrian. Why can’t God appoint and annoint a Persian, an Arab, or Indian to do His work? Why only Jews?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
That is something.
I have heard about this assertion that Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Krishna and Buddha are one and the same manifestation of God.
I have to say, how is that?

I don't know Krishna nor Buddha
so I would skip on these and compare the other names you mentioned.

I know Moses
Moses is a man who became a great prophet
God performed miracles through Moses
but doubted God at the desert that is why he was not permitted to enter the promise land.
He has a wife then married a Ku****e
He was the mediator of the old covenant together with the Levites
He is God's chosen leader for the original Israel.

I know Jesus
Jesus is a man who is the Son of God
He is the reason why God made the universe
He died but on the 3rd day, God raised him from the dead
God performed miracles through Jesus
He was unmarried
He was the mediator between God and man, a new covenant
He established his church

I slightly know Muhammad
He has a god named Allah
Who he is interesting because I often watch Apostate Prophet at YouTube
Muhammad words are in the Qumran and the Hadith and Sunnah
He had 11 wives and one of which is a 9 year old.
He founded Islam

See how the 3 are entirely different?
Even their teachings are different.
Moses subscribe to observance of the Sabbath and circumcision
Jesus does not subscribe to these
Muhammad subscribe to circumcision
The mere fact that they differ they are really different individuals

All the patriarchs had multiple wives and concubines.. Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Solomon.. What is the issue?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Yes that is the purpose of the stories, the stories are also based on actual events.
And how do we know what the actual event was? Like the parting of the seas story... The waters withdrew and the Hebrews crossed. The Egyptian army tried to cross, but the water came back and drowned them. What was the actual event that this is based on? And, what is the added "symbolic" part? Or, were the Hebrews ever slaves in Egypt? Or, is that only symbolic?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
And how do we know what the actual event was? Like the parting of the seas story... The waters withdrew and the Hebrews crossed. The Egyptian army tried to cross, but the water came back and drowned them. What was the actual event that this is based on? And, what is the added "symbolic" part? Or, were the Hebrews ever slaves in Egypt? Or, is that only symbolic?

They would have had to rappel down to get to the floor of the Red Sea. Its a children's story.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
And how do we know what the actual event was? Like the parting of the seas story... The waters withdrew and the Hebrews crossed. The Egyptian army tried to cross, but the water came back and drowned them. What was the actual event that this is based on? And, what is the added "symbolic" part? Or, were the Hebrews ever slaves in Egypt? Or, is that only symbolic?

We may never find out. Thus that is why there is progressive revelation. The more recent the Faith, the more reliable are the historical recorded events.

In the end I just like to see what I can gain by looking for Spiritual Metephor. That is the pirpose of the Messenger, to change our hearts to embrace all humanity.

Regards Tony
 

siti

Well-Known Member
We may never find out. Thus that is why there is progressive revelation.
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Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I find that fundamentalists at times don’t understand the motives of liberals and prefer to mischaracterise them as being motivated by popularity instead of being motivated by rationalised deeply held inner convictions
Which is hilarious given that many times you'll hear that Christianity must be true because so many people believe it.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to use the word cult or suggest mind programming (brainwashing).
Telltale Atheist on youtube talks a lot about something called the BITE model, which helps clarify if some group is a cult or not.

The stuff I heard about was mostly general harassment, making it difficult to be non-Muslim. That and land issues regarding things like when building a new highway, forcing the Christian churches or Hindu temples to sell, but making great efforts to plan the new highway to go around mosques. To me, that would indeed get annoying after awhile, and resentment would build, depending on individuals.
So, how Christians treat people in the US.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
I see each of them were born in a different age and had a specific Message suited to that age from God, to give amongst a people that God chose to deliver the Message to. This is the difference we see. Each one of those Messages was not meant for but that one people, but the time was not right for all of humaity to embrace those messages. That is why the Day of the Lord is Prophecy, where there will be one fold and one Shepherd and God's Name will be One.

Now we look at how they are One and Christ taught us how this is so by the virgin birth. We know Jesus was born of Mary but Jesus is born of the Holy Spirit, this is the station of 'Christ' (annointed one). We are all born of the Human Spirit and need faith to be born again, our connection to the Holy Spirit.

Thus all God's Messengers are Annointed, born of the Holy Spirit and in that way they teach of the same Truth and all share of the same purpose.

It has now been explained in detail in this age.

Regards Tony

Well Tony, I believe they are different people and carry different teachings. I wouldn't touch on Hindu and Chinese religion because I don't know things about them. I could however give light to the doctrines delivered by Moses, Jesus and Muhammad

images


Moses, the teachings of God was tailor fit for the people of Israel.
Israel was the nation of God, the rest of the world wasn't

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 New Living Translation (NLT)
“The Lord did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations! Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves you, and he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the Lord rescued you with such a strong hand from your slavery and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.

2 Kings 5:15 New Living Translation (NLT)
Then Naaman and his entire party went back to find the man of God. They stood before him, and Naaman said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.”

So in the Old Testament times, Israel is God's chosen people.
Well how about the rest of the world? List of Bronze Age states - Wikipedia

800px-World_in_1000_BCE.png


Sorry people!

During these times, there were no evangelicalization or spreading of the covenant of God given in Mount Sinai.
During these times, civilizations were in armed conflict with each other.

So Moses taught the doctrines of God and this doctrines were specially made for ISRAEL

Malachi 4:4 New International Version (NIV)
“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

Now comparing Moses and Jesus - you will see the difference.

Moses taught:
Exodus 21:22-25 New International Version (NIV)
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Jesus taught:
Matthew 5:38-42 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Well Tony, I believe they are different people and carry different teachings. I wouldn't touch on Hindu and Chinese religion because I don't know things about them. I could however give light to the doctrines delivered by Moses, Jesus and Muhammad

images


Moses, the teachings of God was tailor fit for the people of Israel.
Israel was the nation of God, the rest of the world wasn't

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 New Living Translation (NLT)
“The Lord did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations! Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves you, and he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the Lord rescued you with such a strong hand from your slavery and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.

2 Kings 5:15 New Living Translation (NLT)
Then Naaman and his entire party went back to find the man of God. They stood before him, and Naaman said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.”

So in the Old Testament times, Israel is God's chosen people.
Well how about the rest of the world? List of Bronze Age states - Wikipedia

800px-World_in_1000_BCE.png


Sorry people!

During these times, there were no evangelicalization or spreading of the covenant of God given in Mount Sinai.
During these times, civilizations were in armed conflict with each other.

So Moses taught the doctrines of God and this doctrines were specially made for ISRAEL

Malachi 4:4 New International Version (NIV)
“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

Now comparing Moses and Jesus - you will see the difference.

Moses taught:
Exodus 21:22-25 New International Version (NIV)
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Jesus taught:
Matthew 5:38-42 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you

Jesus is talking about non violent resistance to the Roman occupation.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
All the patriarchs had multiple wives and concubines.. Abraham, Moses, Jacob, David, Solomon.. What is the issue?

Ecclesiastes 7:20 New International Version (NIV)
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous,
no one who does what is right and never sins.

Well they are people,
they make mistakes
they sin
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Ecclesiastes 7:20 New International Version (NIV)
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous,
no one who does what is right and never sins.

Well they are people,
they make mistakes
they sin

Was having multiple wives and concubines considered a sin?
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
Well Tony, I believe they are different people and carry different teachings. I wouldn't touch on Hindu and Chinese religion because I don't know things about them. I could however give light to the doctrines delivered by Moses, Jesus and Muhammad

images


Moses, the teachings of God was tailor fit for the people of Israel.
Israel was the nation of God, the rest of the world wasn't

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 New Living Translation (NLT)
“The Lord did not set his heart on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other nations, for you were the smallest of all nations! Rather, it was simply that the Lord loves you, and he was keeping the oath he had sworn to your ancestors. That is why the Lord rescued you with such a strong hand from your slavery and from the oppressive hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.

2 Kings 5:15 New Living Translation (NLT)
Then Naaman and his entire party went back to find the man of God. They stood before him, and Naaman said, “Now I know that there is no God in all the world except in Israel. So please accept a gift from your servant.”

So in the Old Testament times, Israel is God's chosen people.
Well how about the rest of the world? List of Bronze Age states - Wikipedia

800px-World_in_1000_BCE.png


Sorry people!

During these times, there were no evangelicalization or spreading of the covenant of God given in Mount Sinai.
During these times, civilizations were in armed conflict with each other.

So Moses taught the doctrines of God and this doctrines were specially made for ISRAEL

Malachi 4:4 New International Version (NIV)
“Remember the law of my servant Moses, the decrees and laws I gave him at Horeb for all Israel.

Now comparing Moses and Jesus - you will see the difference.

Moses taught:
Exodus 21:22-25 New International Version (NIV)
“If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Jesus taught:
Matthew 5:38-42 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you

Of course, all this could be just tribal propaganda.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Jesus is talking about non violent resistance to the Roman occupation.

Matthew 5:43-48 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I haven't read Jesus mentioning about resisting Roman occupation but rather encourage people to be compliant.

Matthew 22:15-22 New International Version (NIV)

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.

Was having multiple wives and concubines considered a sin?

Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

It is God's intention that a man must only have one wife.

Matthew 19:3-12 New International Version (NIV)
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Matthew 5:43-48 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I haven't read Jesus mentioning about resisting Roman occupation but rather encourage people to be compliant.

Matthew 22:15-22 New International Version (NIV)

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.



Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

It is God's intention that a man must only have one wife.

Matthew 19:3-12 New International Version (NIV)
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”
Thanks for reminding me of the radical creationist Kent Hovind. He did not follow everything that Jesus taught. Perhaps he did not like rendering into Caesar. He got a nice nine year break from society for his efforts.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, you and me don't. You need them to be symbolic, and I think they are probably myth and legend. But what about Jews and Christians? If God's Word can't be trusted to tell the truth about history, who can you trust? And if it's just a symbolic story, then the Jews have no history... and no history with their God.
They can't say "Yes, when our forefathers left Egypt and wandered in the wilderness..." "When Moses went up the mountain and brought the commandments." "When David killed Goliath..." None of it is real. All that they were supposed to do with those stories is figure out the symbolic message? Yeah, God does great things... symbolically. I don't think so. I think the stories were meant to be taken as literal. It gave great meaning to them. And, it is still giving them meaning.


Dichotomous thinking. Its not entirely historic or entirely allegorical but both. Its not entirely literal or entirely symbolic but both. Even some fundamentalists agree. Its not a question of either/or but a question of degrees.

But, when you were a Christian, how literal did you take the Bible? And, how did your Pastors and teachers teach you to take it? I always harbored some doubts. But in Church meetings, who can openly talk about doubting the Bible?

I talked openly but I was also considered demon possessed. :D
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Matthew 5:43-48 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I haven't read Jesus mentioning about resisting Roman occupation but rather encourage people to be compliant.

Matthew 22:15-22 New International Version (NIV)

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.



Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

It is God's intention that a man must only have one wife.

Matthew 19:3-12 New International Version (NIV)
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

What do you think Jesus was talking about when he said turn the other cheek, carry the pack two miles, give your cloak also?? Those are responses to Roman law that oppressed the Jews. The strategy was to shame the enemy and survive so there wouldn't be a civil war and the destruction of the Temple.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Matthew 5:43-48 New International Version (NIV)
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

I haven't read Jesus mentioning about resisting Roman occupation but rather encourage people to be compliant.

Matthew 22:15-22 New International Version (NIV)

Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know that you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay the imperial tax to Caesar or not?”

But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”

“Caesar’s,” they replied.

Then he said to them, “So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away.



Genesis 2:24 New International Version (NIV)
That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

It is God's intention that a man must only have one wife.

Matthew 19:3-12 New International Version (NIV)
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Neither Jesus nor God, nor any of the patriarchs taught one wife.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Dichotomous thinking. Its not entirely historic or entirely allegorical but both. Its not entirely literal or entirely symbolic but both. Even some fundamentalists agree. Its not a question of either/or but a question of degrees.



I talked openly but I was also considered demon possessed. :D
And what is wrong with it being myth then? It would be told as if it was an actual event, but I don't think it has to have any real event to still get a spiritual point across. Like if you trust in God he will deliver you from your enemies... no matter what the odds. But, if you don't put your trust God, he will allow the enemy to win. This is a very common theme in the Jewish Bible. But, it seems like Baha'is, in some of the stories, especially the resurrection story, try to make everything symbolic and none of it historical.

Now about you in church, what kind of questions were you asking? I don't think you were ever in trouble of being a Fundy Christian. You were destined to be a Baha'i even then.
 
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