Conversing with religious fundamentalists

[Dawnofhope]

I had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist over the weekend. It was the first game of football (soccer) for one of my sons. I was pleased to see the return of one of our teams best players who had decided not to play last season but really wanted to return. However the father of the boy often keeps to himself and tends not to associate too much with the other parents. I initiated conversation by saying how pleased I was to see them both again. After a while conversation turned to the recent Christchurch Terrorist attack. I mentioned I was on the cities interfaith council and how we had been involved with supporting the Muslims in our community. At this point he felt compelled that He was a follower of Jesus Christ and he had seen first hand the dark side of Islam. He had been an atheist up until 15 years ago, when Jesus Himself had appeared before him and so he gave himself over to the Lord. There were odd moments where he would introduce monologues with the usual 'only through Jesus can we be saved' rhetoric. I zoned out and feeling somewhat uncomfortable wondered if it would be possible to have any kind of meaningful and constructive conversation with the guy. Long story short, I managed to find some areas of common ground between us and we eventually shook hands, wished each other well and parted ways amicably.

Sometimes I wonder about the value in talking to fundamentalists but recall many years ago I too was a Christian fundamentalist. I recall some of the helpful conversations that enabled me to see another way, a way that much better suited my beliefs and temperament. America has many more Christian fundamentalists than my small and liberal country. I was wondering about other's experiences with fundamentalism. Maybe you are a fundamentalist in which case, how is it for you talking to others with strong beliefs with those who don't share your worldview?

 

[danieldemol]

I find that fundamentalists at times don’t understand the motives of liberals and prefer to mischaracterise them as being motivated by popularity instead of being motivated by rationalised deeply held inner convictions

 

[Spirit of Light]

I had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist over the weekend. It was the first game of football (soccer) for one of my sons. I was pleased to see the return of one of our teams best players who had decided not to play last season but really wanted to return. However the father of the boy often keeps to himself and tends not to associate too much with the other parents. I initiated conversation by saying how pleased I was to see them both again. After a while conversation turned to the recent Christchurch Terrorist attack. I mentioned I was on the cities interfaith council and how we had been involved with supporting the Muslims in our community. At this point he felt compelled that He was a follower of Jesus Christ and he had seen first hand the dark side of Islam. He had been an atheist up until 15 years ago, when Jesus Himself had appeared before him and so he gave himself over to the Lord. There were odd moments where he would introduce monologues with the usual 'only through Jesus can we be saved' rhetoric. I zoned out and feeling somewhat uncomfortable wondered if it would be possible to have any kind of meaningful and constructive conversation with the guy. Long story short, I managed to find some areas of common ground between us and we eventually shook hands, wished each other well and parted ways amicably.

Sometimes I wonder about the value in talking to fundamentalists but recall many years ago I too was a Christian fundamentalist. I recall some of the helpful conversations that enabled me to see another way, a way that much better suited my beliefs and temperament. America has many more Christian fundamentalists than my small and liberal country. I was wondering about other's experiences with fundamentalism. Maybe you are a fundamentalist in which case, how is it for you talking to others with strong beliefs with those who don't share your worldview?

There is often a sense of my way is the best, specially in the beginning when we find the religious path we feel is closest to our heart When i converted to Buddhism many years ago even i took it to the extreme for some time. but found that it was not the right way to do things, and as you know Buddhism is called the middle way, we should not be extreme But it is a part of the journey to both be a little extreme and a little lazy , until we realise the truth and how we should behave

 

[wizanda]

Maybe you are a fundamentalist in which case, how is it for you talking to others with strong beliefs with those who don't share your worldview?

Exegesis requires dealing with fundamentals; thus the idea that a Christian is deemed a fundamentalist for spouting religious convictions, isn't being logical.

Like no one follows their religious texts to the letter anymore, else we'd have stoning.

If more people were fundamentalist we'd not have religious wars, as they'd already be examining each others texts; a Muslim by definition has to acknowledge all religious books without distinction (2:285, 4:150-151).

Just to clarify our response, tho understand the question is about how we interact with fundamentalists; after 15 years speaking with so called religious fundamentalists online, most are dealing with eisegesis, and then fighting to defend their own lies (be'lie'f).

In my opinion.

 

[MJFlores]

He had been an atheist up until 15 years ago, when Jesus Himself had appeared before him and so he gave himself over to the Lord.

When people say those words
I wonder what he is taking for Jesus himself to appear.
I remember Christ saying in the Bible:

Matthew 24:23-26 New International Version (NIV)
At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

So what can I say?
I'm Christian, you're Baha'i
I should be worried because
That's in the Bible.

 

[SomeRandom]

Fundamentalists of any variety give me a sense of unease. Not because I think they are bad people. But extremism tends to, well, take things too far.
I used to hold some toxic views, which to me at least, is an example of fundamentalism. Just not of the religious kind.
The whole "us vs them" thing is not particularly helpful and in my mind doesn't allow proper growth. It exacerbates problems, creating an echo chamber and doesn't allow for meaningful dialogue a lot of the time.

 

[PureX]

I had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist over the weekend. It was the first game of football (soccer) for one of my sons. I was pleased to see the return of one of our teams best players who had decided not to play last season but really wanted to return. However the father of the boy often keeps to himself and tends not to associate too much with the other parents. I initiated conversation by saying how pleased I was to see them both again. After a while conversation turned to the recent Christchurch Terrorist attack. I mentioned I was on the cities interfaith council and how we had been involved with supporting the Muslims in our community. At this point he felt compelled that He was a follower of Jesus Christ and he had seen first hand the dark side of Islam. He had been an atheist up until 15 years ago, when Jesus Himself had appeared before him and so he gave himself over to the Lord. There were odd moments where he would introduce monologues with the usual 'only through Jesus can we be saved' rhetoric. I zoned out and feeling somewhat uncomfortable wondered if it would be possible to have any kind of meaningful and constructive conversation with the guy. Long story short, I managed to find some areas of common ground between us and we eventually shook hands, wished each other well and parted ways amicably.

Sometimes I wonder about the value in talking to fundamentalists but recall many years ago I too was a Christian fundamentalist. I recall some of the helpful conversations that enabled me to see another way, a way that much better suited my beliefs and temperament. America has many more Christian fundamentalists than my small and liberal country. I was wondering about other's experiences with fundamentalism. Maybe you are a fundamentalist in which case, how is it for you talking to others with strong beliefs with those who don't share your worldview?

It would be easy to confuse religious fundamentalism with cult mind programming. In a free society, the latter is a very difficult form of abuse to stop.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I find that fundamentalists at times don’t understand the motives of liberals and prefer to mischaracterise them as being motivated by popularity instead of being motivated by rationalised deeply held inner convictions

I agree. For me as a human being and a Baha'i living at this time in history, I feel an urgent need for us all move beyond that which divides us and find common ground. Those who identify as liberal, conservative or any other place in the political/religious spectrum need to empathetically understand those whom they perceive as their polar opposites.

 

[Dawnofhope]

There is often a sense of my way is the best, specially in the beginning when we find the religious path we feel is closest to our heart When i converted to Buddhism many years ago even i took it to the extreme for some time. but found that it was not the right way to do things, and as you know Buddhism is called the middle way, we should not be extreme But it is a part of the journey to both be a little extreme and a little lazy , until we realise the truth and how we should behave

Thank you. There are common truths such the middle way that are the heart of all genuine religion, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and Islam included. There are errors and pitfalls that adherents of any religion can succumb, especially when they lose sight of the core teachings of their faith.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Exegesis requires dealing with fundamentals; thus the idea that a Christian is deemed a fundamentalist for spouting religious convictions, isn't being logical.

Like no one follows their religious texts to the letter anymore, else we'd have stoning.

If more people were fundamentalist we'd not have religious wars, as they'd already be examining each others texts; a Muslim by definition has to acknowledge all religious books without distinction (2:285, 4:150-151).

Just to clarify our response, tho understand the question is about how we interact with fundamentalists; after 15 years speaking with so called religious fundamentalists online, most are dealing with eisegesis, and then fighting to defend their own lies (be'lie'f).

In my opinion.

Your post led me to consider that we can all be fundamentalist to varying degrees. The very use of the term fundamentalist can be used to divide rather than unite. Perhaps we are at our best when each of us can recognise fundamentalism within ourselves rather than being overly concerned at the fundamentalism we perceive in others.

 

[Dawnofhope]

When people say those words
I wonder what he is taking for Jesus himself to appear.
I remember Christ saying in the Bible:

Matthew 24:23-26 New International Version (NIV)
At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

So what can I say?
I'm Christian, you're Baha'i
I should be worried because
That's in the Bible.

When I read this, I wonder if you are telling me I'm following a false prophet? If so, how do you know for certain?

 

[sooda]

I had a conversation with a Christian fundamentalist over the weekend. It was the first game of football (soccer) for one of my sons.

I was pleased to see the return of one of our teams best players who had decided not to play last season but really wanted to return. However the father of the boy often keeps to himself and tends not to associate too much with the other parents. I initiated conversation by saying how pleased I was to see them both again. After a while conversation turned to the recent Christchurch Terrorist attack.

I mentioned I was on the cities interfaith council and how we had been involved with supporting the Muslims in our community. At this point he felt compelled that He was a follower of Jesus Christ and he had seen first hand the dark side of Islam.

He had been an atheist up until 15 years ago, when Jesus Himself had appeared before him and so he gave himself over to the Lord. There were odd moments where he would introduce monologues with the usual 'only through Jesus can we be saved' rhetoric. I zoned out and feeling somewhat uncomfortable wondered if it would be possible to have any kind of meaningful and constructive conversation with the guy. Long story short, I managed to find some areas of common ground between us and we eventually shook hands, wished each other well and parted ways amicably.

Sometimes I wonder about the value in talking to fundamentalists but recall many years ago I too was a Christian fundamentalist. I recall some of the helpful conversations that enabled me to see another way, a way that much better suited my beliefs and temperament. America has many more Christian fundamentalists than my small and liberal country. I was wondering about other's experiences with fundamentalism. Maybe you are a fundamentalist in which case, how is it for you talking to others with strong beliefs with those who don't share your worldview?

Did he say how he saw the "dark side of Islam"?

 

[sooda]

When I read this, I wonder if you are telling me I'm following a false prophet? If so, how do you know for certain?

In the earliest stage Yahweh was one of the seventy children of El, each of whom was the patron deity of one of the seventy nations.

This is illustrated by the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint texts of Deuteronomy 32:8–9, in which El, as the head of the divine assembly, gives each member of the divine family a nation of his own, "according to the number of the divine sons": Israel is the portion of YHWH.

Dead Sea Scrolls (4QDeutj) Deuteronomy 32:8-9

"When El Elyon gave to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of men, he fixed the bounds of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God. For Yahweh's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted inheritance."

"The later Masoretic text, evidently uncomfortable with the polytheism expressed by the phrase, altered it to "according to the number of the children of Israel"."

The Bible and Interpretation

 

[Dawnofhope]

It would be easy to confuse religious fundamentalism with cult mind programming. In a free society, the latter is a very difficult form of abuse to stop.

I'm not sure how helpful it is to use the word cult or suggest mind programming (brainwashing). The word is pejorative and overused IMHO. There are exceptions such as the Branch Davidians. I wonder if a better phrase is over-controlling religious leadership (just as you can have over-controlling parents).

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thank you. There are common truths such the middle way that are the heart of all genuine religion, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity and Islam included. There are errors and pitfalls that adherents of any religion can succumb, especially when they lose sight of the core teachings of their faith.

Very wise words you said

 

[Dawnofhope]

Did he say how he saw the "dark side of Islam"?

He married a woman from Malaysia (interestingly much younger than himself). He referred to his wife's experience living in Malaysia, which of course has a majority Muslim population. In hindsight it might have been helpful to get some specifics, though at the time I really didn't want to listen to anti-Islamic rhetoric any more than proselytizing about Jesus being the only way to God.

 

[sooda]

He married a woman from Malaysia (interestingly much younger than himself). He referred to his wife's experience living in Malaysia, which of course has a majority Muslim population. In hindsight it might have been helpful to get some specifics, though at the time I really didn't want to listen to anti-Islamic rhetoric any more than proselytizing about Jesus being the only way to God.

Sounds like an old fool to me. Islam probably wasn't the problem.

 

[Vinayaka]

He married a woman from Malaysia (interestingly much younger than himself). He referred to his wife's experience living in Malaysia, which of course has a majority Muslim population. In hindsight it might have been helpful to get some specifics, though at the time I really didn't want to listen to anti-Islamic rhetoric any more than proselytizing about Jesus being the only way to God.

I have friends in Malaysia. They tread lightly because of discrimination against minorities. So your acquaintance most likely had some very valid reasons. When we (Boss and I) were considering going for 3 months to somewhere eastern (but safe sanitation wise, not India) Malaysia was one of the places. When we consulted 'experts' we chose Mauritius, hands down.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have friends in Malaysia. They tread lightly because of discrimination against minorities. So your acquaintance most likely had some very valid reasons. When we (Boss and I) were considering going for 3 months to somewhere eastern (but safe sanitation wise, not India) Malaysia was one of the places. When we consulted 'experts' we chose Mauritius, hands down.

Malaysia is certainly not a haven of peace and justice.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/Malaysia

There are Islamic theocratic elements of the government where Sharia law is applied, but only to Muslims. I don't know enough about how Islam, theocracy and politics work in Malaysia to sensibly discuss it. Instead we talked Jesus and the Bible, which I do know something about.

It would be a mistake to underestimate my acquaintance on the basis of his religious beliefs.

 

[Vinayaka]

Malaysia is certainly not a haven of peace and justice.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2019/country-chapters/Malaysia

There are Islamic theocratic elements of the government where Sharia law is applied, but only to Muslims. I don't know enough about how Islam, theocracy and politics work in Malaysia to sensibly discuss it. Instead we talked Jesus and the Bible, which I do know something about.

It would be a mistake to underestimate my acquaintance on the basis of his religious beliefs.

The stuff I heard about was mostly general harassment, making it difficult to be non-Muslim. That and land issues regarding things like when building a new highway, forcing the Christian churches or Hindu temples to sell, but making great efforts to plan the new highway to go around mosques. To me, that would indeed get annoying after awhile, and resentment would build, depending on individuals.