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Bahaullah has revealed!

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I am reading Kitab-e-Iqan by Bahaullah and it occurred to me that Bahaullah does not say in it in clear and unequivocal terms about the things written in this book that these has been revealed on/to him by/from G-d. Right, please?
I will appreciate if somebody gives quotes from Iqan, if I am wrong.

As explained above.

Baha'u'llah wrote this book as a Babi to answer a question by the Uncle of the Bab as to how His Nephew could be a Messenger from God.

As Baha'u'llah had not yet made a declaration that He was the One Promised by the Bab, that would have gone beyond the question asked, and would have been a public declartaion.

That would be like Christ telling plainly that he was Christ before the appointed time, before the Baptisim with John.

God doeth as He willeth. It is a rare few that can see a Messenger before they declare thier Mission, but there are many that knew who Baha'u'llah was prior to His declaration. All remained silent until the appointed time.

You will not find Baha'u'llah by looking for His declaration in the Kitab-i-iqan, he had not made it yet. The appointed time had nit arrived.

The Quran confirms this;

"...They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."

Regards Tony
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
In the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah references the Quran 10:35 referring to Himself that God is calling all to the Abode Of Peace, Baghdad. This is in reference to Himself that God is calling all to Him in Baghdad. The Quran He quotes is referring to Him He is claiming.

The Quran quote I gave you was in the Book of Certitude.

We seal Our theme with that which was formerly revealed unto Muhammad that the seal thereof may shed the fragrance of that holy musk which leadeth men unto the Ridván of unfading splendour. He said, and His Word is the truth: “And God calleth to the Abode of Peace; and He guideth whom He will into the right way.” “For them is an Abode of Peace with their Lord! and He shall be their Protector because of their works.”This He hath revealed that His grace may encompass the world. Praise be to God, the Lord of all being!”

The Kitáb-i-Íqán
Bahá’u’lláh

"In the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah references the Quran 10:35 referring to Himself ".Unquote

I quote the Quran verses below:

[10:35]
Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who originates creation and then reproduces it?’ Say, ‘It is Allah alone Who originates creation and then reproduces it. Whither then are you turned away?’
[10:36]
Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who leads to the truth?’ Say, ‘It is Allah Who leads to the truth. Is then He Who leads to the truth more worthy to be followed or he who finds not the way himself unless he be guided? What, then, is the matter with you? How judge ye?’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus
  1. Which one of the above two verses one is referring to? How the same has any connection with Bahaullah, please?
  2. Please give the page # of the original Iqan in Farsi/Persian language where the clear and unequivocal claim of "revelation" from G-d about Iqan is given as also the reasonable argument given by Bahaullah,please.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
You can not take one book in isolation from the rest of Baha'u'llah's Revelation anymore than you can take one chapter in isolation of the Quran Revealed by Muhammad.

The Kitab-I-Iqan is concerned mainly with the underlying unity of religion. It was revealed 'before' Baha'u'llah declared to the One the Bab referred to as Him whom God shall make manifest. Baha'u'llah first made this clear in the garden of Ridvan 1863. Baha'u'llah made more explicit claims to be the Promised One of all ages and all scriptures later when He wrote to the Kings and Rulers.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 7-9

For example when writing to Pope Pius IX He claims to be the Return of Christ.

O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him without a clear token or proof. On His right hand flow the living waters of grace, and on His left the choice Wine of justice, whilst before Him march the angels of Paradise, bearing the banners of His signs. Beware lest any name debar thee from God, the Creator of earth and heaven. Leave thou the world behind thee, and turn towards thy Lord, through Whom the whole earth hath been illumined.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 54-67
That is your own understanding or the understanding of the Bahaism people not of Bahaullah,please.
I want to know Bahaullah's understanding, if you can quote from Iqan in this connection for me, please.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God. In doing this Baha'u'llah proved all the Messengers gave a Message from the same One God, Allah.

The book also proves they are Born a Messenger and that all their wisdom is from God. Right from day 1 they are seen to be very special.

So that also includes the Kitab-i-iqan, as the entire life and works of Baha'u'llah, is from Allah.

Regards Tony
"The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God."

Did Bahaullah mention in Iqan that the purpose of his writing Iqan was to prove the Bab gave a Message from God,please?

Regards
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
That is your own understanding or the understanding of the Bahaism people not of Bahaullah,please.
I want to know Bahaullah's understanding, if you can quote from Iqan in this connection for me, please.

Regards

Have you ever thought about taking an English course? You seem unable to listen to or understand what any of the Baha'is here are saying.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
All of Baha’u’llah’s Words were from God. God taught Baha’u’llah all knowledge. As He says below all His knowledge is from God not from Himself. So like the Holy Quran all Baha’u’llah’s Writings are the Word of God.

So the Book of Certitude is from God written by the Pen of Baha’u’llah and it is the Book that broke the seals of the Book referred to by Daniel

O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing.
"O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing." Unquote

I don't find it in Iqan, please give passage/page number to locate it.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Baha’u’llah received confirmation of His Station as a Manifestation of God in 1852 in Tehran when a Maiden appeared to Him in the Black Pit dungeon similar to Muhammad’s first revelation by Gabriel in the Cave.

Like Muhammad, Baha’u’llah did not make it public until 1863. The Book of Certitude was revealed in 1862

If you want real confirmation from God regarding Baha’u’llah then remember He was in Baghdad when He revealed the Book of Certitude and the old name for Baghdad was the Abode Of Peace.

Sura 10:25

And God summons to the Abode of Peace, and He guides whomsoever He will to a straight path;


المسالك::The city of Baghdad; its description by Ibn Jubair
"Sura 10:25
And God summons to the Abode of Peace, and He guides whomsoever He will to a straight path;
المسالك::The city of Baghdad; its description by Ibn Jubair
"Unquote

You mean:
1>[10:25]
The likeness of the present life is only as water which We send down from the clouds, then there mingles with it the produce of the earth, of which men and cattle eat till, when the earth receives its ornature and looks beautiful and its owners think that they have power over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day and We render it a field that is mown down, as if nothing had existed there the day before. Thus do We expound the Signs for a people who reflect.
[10:26]
And Allah calls to the abode of peace, and guides whom He pleases to the straight path.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus

2>Baghdad (/ˈbæɡdæd, bəɡˈdæd/; Arabic: بغداد‎ [baɣˈdaːd] ( listen)) is the capital of Iraq. The population of Baghdad, as of 2016, is approximately 8,765,000,[citation needed][note 1] making it the largest city in Iraq, the second largest city in the Arab world (after Cairo, Egypt), and the second largest city in Western Asia (after Tehran, Iran).

Located along the Tigris River, the city was founded in the 8th century and became the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate. Within a short time of its inception, Baghdad evolved into a significant cultural, commercial, and intellectual center for the Islamic world. This, in addition to housing several key academic institutions (e.g., House of Wisdom), as well as hosting multiethnic and multireligious environment, garnered the city a worldwide reputation as the "Centre of Learning".

Etymology
When the Abbasid caliph, al-Mansur, founded a completely new city for his capital, he chose the name Madinat al-Salaam or City of Peace. This was the official name on coins, weights, and other official usage, although the common people continued to use the old name.[19][20][unreliable source?] By the 11th century, "Baghdad" became almost the exclusive name for the world-renowned metropolis.
Baghdad - Wikipedia

The city (Baghdad) did not exist in the time of Muhammad. Its name, as I understand, was Baghdad in the time of Bahaullah also.

Isn't one reading too much what is not meant in the text with certainty, please?

Regards
 
Last edited:

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
As explained above.

Baha'u'llah wrote this book as a Babi to answer a question by the Uncle of the Bab as to how His Nephew could be a Messenger from God.

As Baha'u'llah had not yet made a declaration that He was the One Promised by the Bab, that would have gone beyond the question asked, and would have been a public declartaion.

That would be like Christ telling plainly that he was Christ before the appointed time, before the Baptisim with John.

God doeth as He willeth. It is a rare few that can see a Messenger before they declare thier Mission, but there are many that knew who Baha'u'llah was prior to His declaration. All remained silent until the appointed time.

You will not find Baha'u'llah by looking for His declaration in the Kitab-i-iqan, he had not made it yet. The appointed time had nit arrived.

The Quran confirms this;

"...They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."

Regards Tony

"The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God."

Did Bahaullah mention in Iqan that the purpose of his writing Iqan was to prove the Bab gave a Message from God,please?

Regards

The answer has been given, this link has many details;

Kitáb-i-Íqán - Wikipedia

This link is the book and has a short explanation;

The Kitáb-i-Íqán | Bahá’í Reference Library

"A treatise revealed by Bahá’u’lláh in Baghdad in 1861/62 in response to questions posed by one of the maternal uncles of the Báb, translated by Shoghi Effendi and first published in English in 1931.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The city (Baghdad) did not exist in the time of Muhammad. Its name, as I understand, was Baghdad in the time of Bahaullah also.

That is the way Prophecy works, God is all knowing.

Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or Glory of the Lord'.

Now read the Bible about the last days and see how often that it is said that in the last days Baha'u'llah would come and guide us to all truth. We also know that in a lot of passages, the 'Father' is also the 'Glory of God'.

Regards Tony
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
"The book was written to prove the Bab gave a Message from God."

Did Bahaullah mention in Iqan that the purpose of his writing Iqan was to prove the Bab gave a Message from God,please?

Regards
According to history, the Book of Iqan was written in response to questions of the uncle of the Bab, and in that Book we can see, some of the statements that shows Bahaullah at least in part is answering questions,

However, if we read it carefully, and think about the following quote in Iqan, we realize, Bahaullah is revealing a Book to fulfill the Promise of God:

"In fact, all the Scriptures and the mysteries thereof are condensed into this
brief account. So much so, that were a person to ponder it a while in his heart, he would discover from all that hath been said the mysteries of the Words of God, and would apprehend the meaning of whatever hath been manifested by that ideal King. As the people differ in their understanding and station, We will accordingly make mention of a few traditions, that these may impart constancy to the wavering soul, and tranquillity to the troubled mind. Thereby, will the testimony of God unto the people, both high and low, be complete and perfect."

If we read this paragraph carefully and think about it, we see that Bahaullah is saying this Book has all the explanation of all mysteries of God from all scriptures of the past in it. Moreover, Bahaullah says, by writing this Book, The Testamony of God to all mankind is completed. Now, we must think, if Bahaullah only as an ordinary man, wrote the Book, how could He say, the Testamony of God is completed by this Book? The answer for me is, Bahaullah is claiming to have a mission from God, and by revealing this Book He is completing the Testamony of God unto all men. Now, we may think,why would this Book complete the Testamony of God? The answer for me is, God had promised in the Bible, as well as the Quran, that He shall reveal the interpretations of His Book ( see Quran 7:50-55), and open the seal of His Books, to reveal its mysteries (see Bible, chapter of Daniel and Revelations).
 
Last edited:

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
"Sura 10:25
And God summons to the Abode of Peace, and He guides whomsoever He will to a straight path;
المسالك::The city of Baghdad; its description by Ibn Jubair
"Unquote

You mean:
1>[10:25]
The likeness of the present life is only as water which We send down from the clouds, then there mingles with it the produce of the earth, of which men and cattle eat till, when the earth receives its ornature and looks beautiful and its owners think that they have power over it, there comes to it Our command by night or by day and We render it a field that is mown down, as if nothing had existed there the day before. Thus do We expound the Signs for a people who reflect.
[10:26]
And Allah calls to the abode of peace, and guides whom He pleases to the straight path.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus

2>Baghdad (/ˈbæɡdæd, bəɡˈdæd/; Arabic: بغداد‎ [baɣˈdaːd] ( listen)) is the capital of Iraq. The population of Baghdad, as of 2016, is approximately 8,765,000,[citation needed][note 1] making it the largest city in Iraq, the second largest city in the Arab world (after Cairo, Egypt), and the second largest city in Western Asia (after Tehran, Iran).

Located along the Tigris River, the city was founded in the 8th century and became the capital of the Abbasid Caliphate. Within a short time of its inception, Baghdad evolved into a significant cultural, commercial, and intellectual center for the Islamic world. This, in addition to housing several key academic institutions (e.g., House of Wisdom), as well as hosting multiethnic and multireligious environment, garnered the city a worldwide reputation as the "Centre of Learning".

Etymology
When the Abbasid caliph, al-Mansur, founded a completely new city for his capital, he chose the name Madinat al-Salaam or City of Peace. This was the official name on coins, weights, and other official usage, although the common people continued to use the old name.[19][20][unreliable source?] By the 11th century, "Baghdad" became almost the exclusive name for the world-renowned metropolis.
Baghdad - Wikipedia

The city (Baghdad) did not exist in the time of Muhammad. Its name, as I understand, was Baghdad in the time of Bahaullah also.

Aren't you reading too much what is not meant in the text with certainty, please?

Regards
The city of Baghdad was not called 'Abode of Peace' at the time of Muhammad. But Allah was referring to that city when He said ' the Abode of peace'. This is because according to a Hadith from Imam Sadigh, the Abode of Peace, is geographically the same place, that is now called Baghdad. Moreover, there are other traditions that , the Mahdi appears in Baghdad to fulfill the prophecy of God, as recorded in the Quran 'God comes down overshadowed with clouds'.
Is it possible, Al-Mansour, had named the city 'Abode of peace', after inspiration from Quran and according to the will of God? When God says 'be', then 'it is'. So, God called that area 'Abode of Peace' and thus this name was given to that city through Al-Mansour.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
You are correct. Bahaullah did NOT say in clear terms that, the Book of Iqan is a revelation from God. Does that answer your question?
I asked a simple question and our friend @InvestigateTruth has given a simple answer confirming "Bahaullah did NOT say in clear terms that, the Book of Iqan is a revelation from God."

I don't know as to why other friend could not confirm it.
They may please note it, and if they like it there is no harm in confirming it. Right, please?
No compulsion though.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Muhammad spoke the words of the Quran. He was illiterate so did not write them down. Should we assume they came from Muhammad and not from God?
Quran is not word of Muhammad, it is not authored by Muhammad. It is Word of God.
This is expressly, clearly, explicitly, unambiguously and unequivocally mentioned several times in Quran.
But that is not the topic of the thread, please.

Regards
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I asked a simple question and our friend @InvestigateTruth has given a simple answer confirming "Bahaullah did NOT say in clear terms that, the Book of Iqan is a revelation from God."

I don't know as to why other friend could not confirm it.
They may please note it, and if they like it there is no harm in confirming it. Right, please?
No compulsion though.

Regards

Quran is not word of Muhammad, it is not authored by Muhammad. It is Word of God.
This is expressly, clearly, explicitly, unambiguously and unequivocally mentioned several times in Quran.
But that is not the topic of the thread, please.

Regards

I see the question was answered many times. A yes and no answer is only required by Lawyers, wholly trying to direct the conversation in one direction.

It can also be said, that it was not said, that it was not a Revelation from God. In fact it is seen that there was metephor contained within that suggests it is from God .

So that gets us back to needing a more detailed explanation and that Metephor can be explored.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
"O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing." Unquote

I don't find it in Iqan, please give passage/page number to locate it.
Regards
It is from a Tablet, NÁṢIRI’D-DÍN SHÁH from the book Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh.
Below is the whole paragraph, but the Tablet continues on after that:

“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me. Can any one speak forth of his own accord that for which all men, both high and low, will protest against him? Nay, by Him Who taught the Pen the eternal mysteries, save him whom the grace of the Almighty, the All-Powerful, hath strengthened. The Pen of the Most High addressethMe saying: Fear not. Relate unto His Majesty the Sháh that which befell thee. His heart, verily, is between the fingers of thy Lord, the God of Mercy, that haply the sun of justice and bounty may shine forth above the horizon of his heart. Thus hath the decree been irrevocably fixed by Him Who is the All-Wise.” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 57-58
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That is the way Prophecy works, God is all knowing.

Baha'u'llah means 'Glory of God', or Glory of the Lord'.

Now read the Bible about the last days and see how often that it is said that in the last days Baha'u'llah would come and guide us to all truth. We also know that in a lot of passages, the 'Father' is also the 'Glory of God'.

Regards Tony
It might mean a lot to you, but to others it could easily be a title given to a person to make him the center of Christian prophecies. Just calling Jesus "the Christ" doesn't make him the Jewish Messiah. So how does calling Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí "The Glory of God" fulfill anything? Besides, many of the prophecies speak of "The Lamb of God" or "The Lamb that was slain". Baha'is seem to like to say this is The Bab, but was he ever referred to by these names?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It might mean a lot to you, but to others it could easily be a title given to a person to make him the center of Christian prophecies. Just calling Jesus "the Christ" doesn't make him the Jewish Messiah. So how does calling Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núrí "The Glory of God" fulfill anything? Besides, many of the prophecies speak of "The Lamb of God" or "The Lamb that was slain". Baha'is seem to like to say this is The Bab, but was he ever referred to by these names?

I see that It is what it all means to you, that is important.

I can only post what I have found.

I could ask if you have seen what is on Mt Carmel Lately and did the Glory of God play any part in that?

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
"In the Book of Certitude Baha’u’llah references the Quran 10:35 referring to Himself ".Unquote

I quote the Quran verses below:

[10:35]
Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who originates creation and then reproduces it?’ Say, ‘It is Allah alone Who originates creation and then reproduces it. Whither then are you turned away?’
[10:36]
Say, ‘Is there any of your associate- gods who leads to the truth?’ Say, ‘It is Allah Who leads to the truth. Is then He Who leads to the truth more worthy to be followed or he who finds not the way himself unless he be guided? What, then, is the matter with you? How judge ye?’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 10: Yunus
  1. Which one of the above two verses one is referring to? How the same has any connection with Bahaullah, please?
  2. Please give the page # of the original Iqan in Farsi/Persian language where the clear and unequivocal claim of "revelation" from G-d about Iqan is given as also the reasonable argument given by Bahaullah,please.
Regards

Baha’u’llah like Muhammad before Him teaches there is only one God and none other but Him.

The claim of Baha’u’llah is alluded to in the passages I gave you and the same in Persian if you understand Farsi. Please refer to these passages.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
"O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing." Unquote

I don't find it in Iqan, please give passage/page number to locate it.
Regards

That is from a Tablet to the King. Here Baha’u’llah refers to the time when He was chosen to be a Manifestation in 1852 in Tehran before the Iqan was written.
 
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