• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Why Does Everyone Have to Reject the Messiah?

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The Messianic prophecy gets fulfilled over time
Says who? It makes no sense. The Messianic prophecies must be fulfilled by the messiah, therefore they are fulfilled during his life, not over thousands of years.


Eloh (H433) means a Divine Being
אֱלוֹהַּ does not transliterate as Eloh. It transliterates as Eloakh.

Eloakh refers to God or to a false god.

Elohim has several uses in Hebrew. You know which use from context.
  1. God (yad hey and vav hey). This is the most common use.
  2. gods
  3. heavenly beings
  4. judges

In Isaiah 46:9 we're told in Hebrew that El (God) is not like the Elohim (Divine Beings), where it paraphrases Deuteronomy 32:7-9...
Isaiah 46:9 does no such thing. It says "I am God [El], and there is none else; I am God [Elohim], and there is none like Me."

It is very difficult talking to you when you butcher the translation of verses. I can't trust anything you say. And it makes me wonder if it is worth carrying on a discussion if you are this far gone.

The idea that the Source of reality created all this texts, and historical events, where people then deny it being from their God, is a form of atheism to us.
Who is "us"?

It says Yeshuat Eloheinu (H3444 + H430) in both verses, the Salvation from our God.
It means simply, the salvation of our God. And it refers to an earthly salvation from our enemies, as in the deliverance from Egypt for example. It does not refer to Jesus. That is something your are reading into the text. The writers of these verses never heard of Jesus.

The context in Isaiah 52:10-14 is that the flesh of David is Chosen in Psalms 89:19-21 to be the Vessel of the Lord, and in Isaiah 52:14 with the additional yod on the word blemished in the dead sea scrolls, that makes it literally about the Messiah/Anointed.
We've discussed this before. You were shown to be mistaken. Apparently you don't learn. Like many, you think that if you repeat something often enough it will come true.
 
Last edited:

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Says who?
Says me, the person with the new name of Christ, sent from Heaven before the Tribulation.
God (yad hey and vav hey).
Yahavah Elohim is head of the Divine Council; making an Elohim into the God Most High (El Elyon) is idolatry.

David defines Yahavah and El Elyon as different:

2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahavah thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1
Isaiah 46:9 does no such thing. It says "I am God [El], and there is none else; I am God [Elohim], and there is none like Me."
Posting a faulty English translation, shows little effort to understand.

There isn't two 'I' statements: 'I Am El, and there is no other; Elohim are nothing like me, and there are none besides.'
Who is "us"?
Originally did put me; yet then realized it defiles the religious texts globally, so thought to include the Divine Council as well.
The writers of these verses never heard of Jesus.
Moses, David, Isaiah prophesied Yeshua/Yehoshua in multiple ways.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
Last edited:

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yahavah Elohim is head of the Divine Council
I'm going to have to end our conversation. You are not the first person to misappropriate Hebrew words and the Jewish name of God, and twist them into your own neo-religion. The Christians did this 2000 years ago when they made Jesus into God and designed the Trinity. But they are the largest religion on the planet, and, well, we're rather used to them. I rather enjoy chatting with Christians. You on the other hand, are just one person all by yourself, with nobody else in your religion. I don't feel the need to debate your esoteric understandings.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
twist them into your own neo-religion.
As saying since I've been sent from Heaven, with the name of the Messiah before the Tribulation; the idea some have rejected the texts, and replaced it with some made up Rabbinic ideas, was all prophesied.

This is why the Snare & Curse was established to remove the fakes, and the idea some have been so condescending, has proven the case.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
Last edited:

1213

Well-Known Member
If an admin sees, hopefully they can edit the OP; it should say Luke 17:25 & Luke 17:30, sorry.

Ok, thanks for the correct scriptures. Now, if we look what the Bible tells, we see this:


But first, he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. As it happened in the days of Noah, even so will it be also in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise, even as it happened in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from the sky, and destroyed them all. It will be the same way in the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 17:25-30

I don’t think that means everybody has to reject him.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I don’t think that means everybody has to reject him.
People do not listen to Yeshua properly, it is already there in the texts that he was against human sacrifice (Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13).

Thus for a person in this generation to remove the lies needed to follow Yeshua, they'd need to already be paying attention; not lip service.

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Says me, the person with the new name of Christ, sent from Heaven before the Tribulation.

Yahavah Elohim is head of the Divine Council; making an Elohim into the God Most High (El Elyon) is idolatry.

David defines Yahavah and El Elyon as different:

2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahavah thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1

Posting a faulty English translation, shows little effort to understand.

There isn't two 'I' statements: 'I Am El, and there is no other; Elohim are nothing like me, and there are none besides.'

Originally did put me; yet then realized it defiles the religious texts globally, so thought to include the Divine Council as well.

Moses, David, Isaiah prophesied Yeshua/Yehoshua in multiple ways.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

In my opinion. :innocent:

Christians think every verse is REALLY about Jesus even when clearly it is NOT.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Ok, thanks for the correct scriptures. Now, if we look what the Bible tells, we see this:


But first, he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. As it happened in the days of Noah, even so will it be also in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise, even as it happened in the days of Lot: they ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but in the day that Lot went out from Sodom, it rained fire and sulfur from the sky, and destroyed them all. It will be the same way in the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

Luke 17:25-30

I don’t think that means everybody has to reject him.

Matthew portrayed Jesus as the King and Mark portrays Him as the Servant of the Lord, Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of man, emphasizing the fact that Jesus was not only fully God, He was fully man.

For example, Luke recorded for us the childhood days of Jesus when He was at the temple (Luke 2:41-52).
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Christians think every verse is REALLY about Jesus even when clearly it is NOT.
Calling me a Christian is very naive... Christianity was given to Paul and Simon the stone (petros)'s ministry in Antioch (Acts 11:25-26).

The verses cited in the Tanakh are all contextually about Yeshua (the salvation from God), and can be explained in clear context.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Calling me a Christian is very naive... Christianity was given to Paul and Simon the stone (petros)'s ministry in Antioch (Acts 11:25-26).

The verses cited in the Tanakh are all contextually about Yeshua (the salvation from God), and can be explained in clear context.

In my opinion. :innocent:

That's bizarre ,,, I found no mention of Jesus in the old testament.. Are the verse so vague you could make them fit anyone?

The Christian concept that they could only be saved through Jesus is foreign to Judaism and incompatible with what we are taught from the Tanakh.

Christians to say that Jews are awaiting any Christian concept of messiah are wrong because the Christian concept of messiah has nothing to do with Jewish prophecy.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Says me, the person with the new name of Christ, sent from Heaven before the Tribulation.

Yahavah Elohim is head of the Divine Council; making an Elohim into the God Most High (El Elyon) is idolatry.

David defines Yahavah and El Elyon as different:

2 Samuel 22:14 & Psalms 18:13 Yahavah thundered from heaven 'and' The Most High uttered his voice. + Psalms 21:7 + Psalms 50:14 + Psalms 78:35 + Psalms 92:1

Posting a faulty English translation, shows little effort to understand.

There isn't two 'I' statements: 'I Am El, and there is no other; Elohim are nothing like me, and there are none besides.'

Originally did put me; yet then realized it defiles the religious texts globally, so thought to include the Divine Council as well.

Moses, David, Isaiah prophesied Yeshua/Yehoshua in multiple ways.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

In my opinion. :innocent:

NONE of those verses are about Jesus.. and most certainly the Servant Song is not about Jesus.. The suffering servant is Israel.

Does your church teach something else?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Calling me a Christian is very naive... Christianity was given to Paul and Simon the stone (petros)'s ministry in Antioch (Acts 11:25-26).

The verses cited in the Tanakh are all contextually about Yeshua (the salvation from God), and can be explained in clear context.

In my opinion. :innocent:

Re-writing scripture is not a good idea. The Jewish messiah was supposed to be fully human and an anointed warrior king who would get rid of the Roman occupation.

They had NO concept of the messiah dying for our sins.

What church do you attend?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Matthew portrayed Jesus as the King and Mark portrays Him as the Servant of the Lord, Luke portrays Jesus as the Son of man, emphasizing the fact that Jesus was not only fully God, He was fully man.
All 3 Synoptic Gospels point to Yeshua's father being the God Most High (El Elyon), and that Yahavah (Lord of Creation) became Yehoshua (Lord that Saves) with his spirit put into the flesh of 'David' ('Beloved' - Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22) - people just miss all the contexts in the Tanakh (Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2).
I found no mention of Jesus in the old testament.
Yehoshua is the full version of his name, it is a symbolic Branch in the Bible that Yehoshua (H3091) son of Nun will lead the people into the promised land (Deuteronomy 31:23)...

Then Yehoshua son of Yehozadek led them back from the Babylonian exile, and then Yehoshua son of Yoseph was murdered for 30 pieces of silver.

Yeshua is a shortened version, which mean Salvation in Hebrew and isn't a name, yet symbolically means the Lord's salvation can do mighty things.

In Isaiah 52:10-15 the spirit of salvation, is placed into the vessel of David (Psalms 89:19-21).
The Christian concept that they could only be saved through Jesus is foreign to Judaism
Rabbinic Judaism has been blinded, and have rejected the Tanakh (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29)...

The Lord has literally done all this, and said those who reject it, shall be removed from reality; which is what the thread is about in a way.

Like you keep repeating 'Christian'; do you not realize you're speaking with an Archangel with the New Name of Christ? :oops:

In my opinion. :innocent:
 
Last edited:

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Rabbinic Judaism have been blinded and reject he Tanakh
Funny, I have a Stone Tanakh just 3 1/2 feet away from where I'm sitting, and I'm constantly copying and pasting from the JPS online version (which is not copyright protected) when I post in here.

Like you keep repeating Christian; do you not realize you're speaking with an Archangel with the New Name of Christ?

In my opinion. :innocent:
Wait, wait, wait... You claim to be an ARCHANGEL "with the New Name of Christ"? No wonder I've shied away from further debate with you. Intuition wins again.

So now i'm curious. When you say, "With the New Name of Christ," are you saying that you are the Messiah as well as an Archangel? I'm not trying to rag on you. I know you really believe this, and that's not a laughing matter. I just would like to know what you mean.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
All 3 Synoptic Gospels point to Yeshua's father being the God Most High (El Elyon), and that Yahavah (Lord of Creation) became Yehoshua (Lord that Saves) with his spirit put into the flesh of 'David' ('Beloved' - Matthew 3:17, Mark 1:11, Luke 3:22) - people just miss all the contexts in the Tanakh (Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2).

Yehoshua is the full version of his name, it is a symbolic Branch in the Bible that Yehoshua (H3091) son of Nun will lead the people into the promised land (Deuteronomy 31:23)...

Then Yehoshua son of Yehozadek led them back from the Babylonian exile, and then Yehoshua son of Yoseph was murdered for 30 pieces of silver.

Yeshua is a shortened version, which mean Salvation in Hebrew and isn't a name, yet symbolically means the Lord's salvation can do mighty things.

In Isaiah 52:10-15 the spirit of salvation, is placed into the vessel of David (Psalms 89:19-21).

Rabbinic Judaism has been blinded, and have rejected the Tanakh (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29)...

The Lord has literally done all this, and said those who reject it, shall be removed from reality; which is what the thread is about in a way.

Like you keep repeating 'Christian'; do you not realize you're speaking with an Archangel with the New Name of Christ? :oops:

In my opinion. :innocent:

The true Messiah must deliver the fruits of the Messianic prophesy before he dies.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Funny, I have a Stone Tanakh just 3 1/2 feet away from where I'm sitting, and I'm constantly copying and pasting from the JPS online version (which is not copyright protected) when I post in here.


Wait, wait, wait... You claim to be an ARCHANGEL "with the New Name of Christ"? No wonder I've shied away from further debate with you. Intuition wins again.

So now i'm curious. When you say, "With the New Name of Christ," are you saying that you are the Messiah as well as an Archangel? I'm not trying to rag on you. I know you really believe this, and that's not a laughing matter. I just would like to know what you mean.

Plenty of nuts over the ages have claimed to be the Messiah.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I'm dying for his answer to this question as well, especially as he keeps referring to "us."
When I was refering to 'us', I meant the Divine Council...

In Hebrew it would be like me saying Zion Elohim, rather than Zion Eloh in other words the Divine Council are present in our decision...

Thus why when a king speaks he says "One", because he speaks for the whole.
When you say, "With the New Name of Christ," are you saying that you are the Messiah as well as an Archangel?
Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion - Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
When I was refering to 'us', I meant the Divine Council...

In Hebrew it would be like me saying Zion Elohim, rather than Zion Eloh in other words the Divine Council are present in our decision...

Thus why when a king speaks he says "One", because he speaks for the whole.

Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar (Sandalphon) in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God (Zion - Psalms 146:10, Psalms 147:12, Isaiah 52:7), the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name (Sananda).

In my opinion. :innocent:
Yes, now that I understand that you say you are an Archangel and the Messiah, I understand you are saying you are on the Divine council. Thank you for replying.

Is your earthly name Joshua David Stone, or something else? You are not obligated to reveal.
 
Top