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If the Bible was first discovered in the Qumran caves near the Dead Sea...

sooda

Veteran Member
You seem confused. Billiard Ball had 200 quotes. Where in the Torah can Edom, the one God hated (Malachi 1:3), convert to Judaism? You are mixing up the proclamations of the false prophet Mohammad on converting by use of the sword with the Torah. Where can anyone become of the "house of Judah" except in the Talmud, the writing of the scribes?

The Edomites were forced to convert and be circumcised by the Maccabees during the Maccabean Revolt. Idumea is the country inhabited by the descendants of Edom.

This has NOTHING to do with Muhammed.. He wasn't born for another 800 years.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
The Edomites were forced to convert and be circumcised by the Maccabees during the Maccabean Revolt. Idumea is the country inhabited by the descendants of Edom.

This has NOTHING to do with Muhammed.. He wasn't born for another 800 years.

The Christians of Yemen could be forced to convert by the sword of Mohammad. There is no law in place for the Edomites of Idumea to be forced to convert to Judaism. As the Edomites are the sons of Abraham, they were for the most part already circumcised except for those already Hellenized. As for anyone living with the Jews, there was one law for the native and the same law for the foreigner.(Leviticus 24:22). Idumea was part of the land God gave Jacob, in particularly, the land of Simeon. That does not make Edom/Idumea of the "house of Judah", a Jew.

Leviticus 24:22 You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Christians of Yemen could be forced to convert by the sword of Mohammad. There is no law in place for the Edomites of Idumea to be forced to convert to Judaism. As the Edomites are the sons of Abraham, they were for the most part already circumcised except for those already Hellenized. As for anyone living with the Jews, there was one law for the native and the same law for the foreigner.(Leviticus 24:22). Idumea was part of the land God gave Jacob, in particularly, the land of Simeon. That does not make Edom/Idumea of the "house of Judah", a Jew.

Leviticus 24:22 You are to have the same law for the foreigner and the native-born. I am the LORD your God.'"

No.. the Jewish king of Yemen burned 2,000 Nestorian Christians in Najran.. The Christian king of Ethiopia came in and put a stop to it.. Years later when Muhammed came along he took them under his protection and waived Jizya.

There was no forced conversion of Christians by Muhammed. Why did you just throw that out?

The Maccabees CONQUERED the Edomites and forced them to convert. I thought you knew your Bible????

Why would the Edomites be Hellenized? Edom is nowhere near Galilee or the Decapolis.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
During the Maccabean wars, the Edomites were subjugated by the Jews and forced to convert to Judaism. Through it all, the Edomites maintained much of their old hatred for the Jews. When Greek became the common language, the Edomites were called Idumaeans.

1200px-Kingdoms_around_Israel_830_map.svg.png
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member

The "seven hills"/seven mountains, are seven kings (Revelation 17:9). And the "beast" that "was and is not" is about to come out of the abyss, and go to destruction (Revelation 17:8). Out of the same "abyss" come your "locusts". The "woman" is Babylon the Great, the religion of Babylon and Rome, which is the worship of the sun god Bel/Sol Invictus. .

Revelation 17:9-10 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The "seven hills"/seven mountains, are seven kings (Revelation 17:9). And the "beast" that "was and is not" is about to come out of the abyss, and go to destruction (Revelation 17:8). Out of the same "abyss" come your "locusts". The "woman" is Babylon the Great, the religion of Babylon and Rome, which is the worship of the sun god Bel/Sol Invictus. .

Revelation 17:9-10 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

he first seven Kings of the Roman Empire were:

1. Julius Caesar

2. Augustus Caesar

3. Tiberious Caesar

4. Gaius Caesar

5. Claudius Caesar "Five have fallen"

6. Nero Caesar "one is"

7. Galba "must remain for a little while"

Galba was the King for only seven months.

The abyss is just the grave.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
No.. the Jewish king of Yemen burned 2,000 Nestorian Christians in Najran.. The Christian king of Ethiopia came in and put a stop to it.. Years later when Muhammed came along he took them under his protection and waived Jizya.

The "Christians" in Yemen paid taxes to Mohammed, and their protection was against blood feuds. And they converted to Islam, not Judaism. I already gave you the link, and quotes, and apparently you ignored it.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
he first seven Kings of the Roman Empire were:

1. Julius Caesar

2. Augustus Caesar

3. Tiberious Caesar

4. Gaius Caesar

5. Claudius Caesar "Five have fallen"

6. Nero Caesar "one is"

7. Galba "must remain for a little while"

Galba was the King for only seven months.

The abyss is just the grave.

The beast with 7 heads and 10 horns represents all the kings from Nebuchadnezzar the 1st head, until the 7th head, "another beast", which is the beast with two horns like a lamb. Revelation was written during the period of the 6th head of the beast, which is the 5th head of the beast, Julius Caesar, who was "healed" as the following Augustus Caesars. According to your chart, "four" not "five have fallen" at the time of Claudius. And you have failed to note the 10 horns. As for the nobody "Galba", he and Otho, and Viellius, all remained for a little while, less than a year. None of them were the 7th head of the beast, the beast with two horns like a lamb, who was to deceive those who dwell on the earth (Revelation 13:14). And it was the 10th horn of the Augustus Caesars, Titus, who was to destroy Jerusalem. It was the woman "Babylon the Great" who sat on all the heads of the beast (Revelation 17:7), starting with the first head, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon.

Revelation 17:10 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The "Christians" in Yemen paid taxes to Mohammed, and their protection was against blood feuds. And they converted to Islam, not Judaism. I already gave you the link, and quotes, and apparently you ignored it.

The Nestorian Christians of Najran were not in Yemen . They were in Arabia. The king of Yemen was a convert to Judaism and her burned 2,000 of them when they refused to convert to Judaism.

The king of Absynnia intervened and stopped the carnage.

The Christian king of Absynnia (Ethiopia) sheltered about 70 Muslims who fled Arabia in the first Hegira and he was friendly towards Muhammed.

So Muhammed took over the protection of the Christians of Najran and wave Jizya.

They didn't convert to Islam and I have no idea what blood feuds you are talking about.

The Jewish king was Dhu-Nuwas. Yemen didn't pay taxes to Muhammed.

The Christians of Najran were massacred in 524 by the Jewish Himyarite king, Yusuf As'ar Dhu Nuwas. The Najranite Christians, like other Southern Arabian Christian communities, had close connections with the ecclesiastical authorities in Byzantium and Abyssinia. They were identified by virtue of their religion as "pro-Axumite" and "pro-Byzantine".

2016815103029555213331_Najran-is-a-city-located-in-southwestern-Saudi-.gif
 

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sooda

Veteran Member
Christianity in Eastern Arabia was blunted by the arrival of Islam by 628.

Despite this, the practice of Christianity persisted in the region until the late 9th century.

From the fifth century onward the Persian Gulf fell under the jurisdiction of the Assyrian Church of the East.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Ethiopia's historic role in providing sanctuary for the earliest Muslims. He shared the story of King Armah (Negash) and his decision to grant refuge to the family of the Prophet Mohammad [pbuh], who arrived at Aksum while fleeing from their pagan persecutors.

"Negash held court and asked both the Quraish tribal members and the family of Mohammad to state their case" he notes. Sharing the exchange of words between the Ethiopian Christian King and those in the court, Samatar described how a Christian King refused bribes and granted sanctuary to the fleeing Muslims in Aksum.

"Mohammad didn't forget the generosity of the Negash," he said, "and in the sayings (hadith) of the Prophet that have been recorded and passed on for generations, it is noted that 'Abyssinia is a land of justice in which no one is oppressed.'"

Ethiopia - The King Who Granted Asylum to the Family of the Prophet Mohammad
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
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His first encounter with Yeshua ("Jesus") was in Acts 9:3-6, where the Lord addressed him as Saul. This episode is also told in Acts 22:7 and Acts 26:14, and in both of those the Lord also addressed him as Saul
I always wondered how that was possible considering Jesus has been quoted as saying that he wouldn't come back until everything was fulfilled prior to his return.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
During the Maccabean wars, the Edomites were subjugated by the Jews and forced to convert to Judaism. Through it all, the Edomites maintained much of their old hatred for the Jews. When Greek became the common language, the Edomites were called Idumaeans.

1200px-Kingdoms_around_Israel_830_map.svg.png

Your kingdom of Edom is shown occupying the area given to Simeon and Judah. Your map has a 6th century BC Nabatu tribe residing in space delegated to Edom.
joshua-12tribes.jpg
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Maybe. But the Dead Sea Scrolls certainly were the central theme when people talk about its original discovery.

The “Original” Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls - Biblical Archaeology Society

The two manuscripts mentioned in the link hardly sound Catholic, which leads me to ask who first discovered the Bible.

The Bible was not discovered. It was compiled from many old manuscripts dated over a spread of thousands of years. It is not legitimately a book in the normal sense. It is merely a compilation of mythology done by English scholars and clergy. Nobody knows who the actual authors are, and there are no original copies of any of the stories.
 

2ndpillar

Well-Known Member
Wasn't Judah destroyed by the Babylonians in the 6th century?

The "house of Judah" was exiled in around the 6th Century B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar, for around 70 years, and then returned and rebuilt Jerusalem to again having Jerusalem conquered by Antiochus, and then to have Jerusalem conquered and destroyed by Pompey and Titus, and the "house of Judah" exiled again, to finally have "Judah" and "Jerusalem" "restored" per Joel 3:1 in 1967 AD, and we are now waiting for Judah, to face all the kingdoms Daniel 2:35 at the same time, to capture Jerusalem for the last time (Zechariah 14:1-3). That will start the time of the YHWH's valley of judgment for all the nations (Joel 3:2 & 12). That is when the nations/Gentiles will take a licking (Jeremiah 30:11) & (Zechariah 14:12). Of course, for those who are partial preterist, and apologist for Islam, all of this has apparently already happened around 2000 years ago.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The "house of Judah" was exiled in around the 6th Century B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar, for around 70 years, and then returned and rebuilt Jerusalem to again having Jerusalem conquered by Antiochus, and then to have Jerusalem conquered and destroyed by Pompey and Titus, and the "house of Judah" exiled again, to finally have "Judah" and "Jerusalem" "restored" per Joel 3:1 in 1967 AD, and we are now waiting for Judah, to face all the kingdoms Daniel 2:35 at the same time, to capture Jerusalem for the last time (Zechariah 14:1-3). That will start the time of the YHWH's valley of judgment for all the nations (Joel 3:2 & 12). That is when the nations/Gentiles will take a licking (Jeremiah 30:11) & (Zechariah 14:12). Of course, for those who are partial preterist, and apologist for Islam, all of this has apparently already happened around 2000 years ago.

Israel wasn't restored in 1967.. Israel never controlled Sinai , the Bekka Valley or the Golan Heights.


Babylon fell in 539 BC. Medo-Persia fell in the fifth century B.C. The Greek Empire began its decline and eventual fall after the death of Alexander the Great in 323B.C. And Rome fell in A.D. 476. …. completely shattering of the statue symbolizing four different empires in Daniel 2:44. Its not the literal, earthly fall of any of these empires. Instead, the shattering of the statue represents the conquest of the territory once occupied by these empires, not their fall.

Daniel 2:31-45 Commentary: The Four Metals Represent Four Empires that were to Rule over Israel before the coming of the Kingdom of God.
 
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