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Buddha and Christ identical Beings

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
And that thread was also started by yourself in 'religious debates' and it somehow turned into a Bahai discussion. Yes, some of us see the pattern here. Obviously. (I use 'obviously' sarcastically here, because the other day I was told 'I'm right and you're wrong, AND it's blatantly obvious.")
In the Abrahamic religions, the existence and nature of God are all-important. In Buddhism, the existence and nature of God (as usually understood in the Abrahamic religions) make no sense, and shoe-horning God-belief into Buddhism just makes a mess. If you want to understand Buddhism, if you are trying to "determine the dharma," you must put aside Christianity or Judaism, and you must put aside Sam Harris and Deepak Chopra. Make no assumptions about what things "mean" in any other context. Determine the dharma according to the dharma.


Citation: O'Brien, Barbara. "What Buddha Didn't Say About God." ThoughtCo, Jun. 22, 2018, thoughtco.com/what-buddha-didnt-say-about-god-3976939.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
In the Abrahamic religions, the existence and nature of God are all-important. In Buddhism, the existence and nature of God (as usually understood in the Abrahamic religions) make no sense, and shoe-horning God-belief into Buddhism just makes a mess. If you want to understand Buddhism, if you are trying to "determine the dharma," you must put aside Christianity or Judaism, and you must put aside Sam Harris and Deepak Chopra. Make no assumptions about what things "mean" in any other context. Determine the dharma according to the dharma.


Citation: O'Brien, Barbara. "What Buddha Didn't Say About God." ThoughtCo, Jun. 22, 2018, thoughtco.com/what-buddha-didnt-say-about-god-3976939.

The Baha'i Faith does not attempt to shoehorn the ancient and Roman concepts of God into the Buddhist/Hindu views, nor the other way around.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Buddha told his disciples they would be their own light
Not so with Jesus who is the light of the world
A damaged person needs to look to another for mercy and redemption

Also in some forms of Buddism desire is always bad.
In the Bible it is what you set the desires on

Also in Buddism there is no God in a sense
where in the Bible there is one God and we are not him but can be adopted
and in a close redeemed relation
Bible said, the Light of Jesus is manifested in His disciples as in a Mirror. I believe Buddha have meant the same with His disciples.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I was responding to the OP who was, is and does shoehorn. If you believe differently that is between you and the OP.

I was not responding to the OP which is the view of an individual, and not the Baha'i Faith. An individual may describe God from many many perspectives, but it remains a human view. The bottomline is:

The Baha'i Faith does not attempt to shoehorn the ancient and Roman concepts of God into the Buddhist/Hindu views, nor the other way around.

The individual ancient belief systems have a strong cultural view of God. The Baha'i Faith considers God an undefinable, unknowable 'Source' some call God(s).
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Even as a Baha'i I do not believe they are identical. They are both enlightened/anointed ones of the 'Source' some call Gods(s). The differences are due to the cultural overlay of humans Creating their religion and the 'Source' in their own image. Also, the relationship between the 'Source' and humanity, and Creation is a dynamic diverse process that reflects the attributes of the 'Source in a constantly evolving process.

The question is whether each religion, division and believe system stands alone as the only one as most believe, or is it part of a greater spiritual evolution of all of humanity and Creation. I could conclude the universal nature of the spiritual evolution from either a Theistic process, or the humanist process when considering it from a universal perspecive, but not from the perspective of the claims of each individual belief system.
Bahaullah said, They are all One Spirit. Yes, different individuals, but same Spirit.

"For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the “Beginning” and the “End,” the “First” and the “Last,” the “Seen” and “Hidden”—all of which pertain to Him Who is the innermost Spirit of Spirits and eternal Essence of Essences." Bahaullah
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
In the Abrahamic religions, the existence and nature of God are all-important. In Buddhism, the existence and nature of God (as usually understood in the Abrahamic religions) make no sense, and shoe-horning God-belief into Buddhism just makes a mess. If you want to understand Buddhism, if you are trying to "determine the dharma," you must put aside Christianity or Judaism, and you must put aside Sam Harris and Deepak Chopra. Make no assumptions about what things "mean" in any other context. Determine the dharma according to the dharma.


Citation: O'Brien, Barbara. "What Buddha Didn't Say About God." ThoughtCo, Jun. 22, 2018, thoughtco.com/what-buddha-didnt-say-about-god-3976939.
"God" is just a word, describing a supernatural source, having holy attributes. Same concept can be seen in Buddhism, even if you say, Buddhism does not appear as a Revelation from a God in a Heaven. The Buddha, Himself is the manifestation of God, though He may not use that term. The statement of Buddha in OP, clearly is a claim to divinity. According to traditions, Buddha said those statements when He was born, not just some years later, when He is awakened. The idea of Buddha becoming awakened under Tree, is identical with the event of descending the Dove on Jesus. Both are just symbolic, and denotes the moment Their Mission began.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
And that thread was also started by yourself in 'religious debates' and it somehow turned into a Bahai discussion. Yes, some of us see the pattern here. Obviously. (I use 'obviously' sarcastically here, because the other day I was told 'I'm right and you're wrong, AND it's blatantly obvious.")
Well, I am looking for a logical argument here, not a sarcasm.
If you will, just look at the statements of Buddha in OP, and compare with statements of Jesus about Himself, and show they are not the same claims!

No body has done this in this thread. Let me, make it more clear by starting the first one:

1.
Jesus said, I am the first, before Abraham I was. Here Jesus is saying He is the first person and had existed before everyone else. Meaning He is the eldest person in the world.
Buddha said, Eldest am I in the world,

Now, manytimes, we choose not to see if we do not like to see. I feel this is how such clear identical statements are not seen to be the same. Instead, they try to get away, by making excuses, such as accusing of cherry picking! Because they cannot logically disprove it.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Well, I am looking for a logical argument here, not a sarcasm.
If you will, just look at the statements of Buddha in OP, and compare with statements of Jesus about Himself, and show they are not the same claims!

No body has done this in this thread. Let me, make it more clear by starting the first one:

1.
Jesus said, I am the first, before Abraham I was. Here Jesus is saying He is the first person and had existed before everyone else. Meaning He is the eldest person in the world.
Buddha said, Eldest am I in the world,

Now, manytimes, we choose not to see if we do not like to see. I feel this is how such clear identical statements are not seen to be the same.

Yes, many people have done this, many times, and they have arrived at a very different conclusion than you have. Why should thy repeat it all again?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Look at the statement of Buddha about Himself:


"I am chief of the world,
Eldest am I in the world,
Foremost am I in the world.
This is the last birth.
There is now no more coming to be."
Miracles of Gautama Buddha - Wikipedia


Now, compare and see how those statements are the same as what Jesus said about Himself:

1.
Jesus said, I am the first, before Abraham I was
Buddha said, Eldest am I in the world,

2.
Jesus said I am the Last.
Buddha said, This is the last birth, There is now no more coming to be."

3.
Jesus said, He is the King, as Messiah is the King by definition.
Buddha said I am chief of the world,


And in the words of Bahaullah:


"They are at the same time the Exponents of both the “first” and the “last.” Whilst established upon the seat of the “first,” they occupy the throne of the “last.” Were a discerning eye to be found, it will readily perceive that the exponents of the “first” and the “last,” of the “manifest” and the “hidden,” of the “beginning” and the “seal” are none other than these holy Beings, these Essences of Detachment, these divine Souls. " Bahaullah, Book of Iqan
Now I know that your books don't have the first clue regarding what they are talking about.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Yes, many people have done this, many times, and they have arrived at a very different conclusion than you have. Why should thy repeat it all again?
Sure, you can make your own conclusion. I'm interested to see how you see the statements of jesus VS Buddha in OP. Let's keep it, to the limits of OP. Just those statements.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
When you look at most of the religious teachings and their teachers you will find simmilarities.
Why? because in the case of buddha and jesus, Both Jesus and Buddha was enlighten beings, they even hold the same wisdom level of the truth. But their teachings was made for different people(Asian vs Middle eastern, and European,
Jesus talk a lot about love, buddha talk about compassion, same teaching seen from different viewpoints

If you look at this way. a mountain with many paths to the top. the top is the ultimate truth that can been understood. the different teaching are same as the different paths up a mountain.
Jesus believed there existed a supreme being GOD, but Buddha did not. There's a big difference there.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Jesus believed there existed a supreme being GOD, but Buddha did not. There's a big difference there.
Yes Jesus was teaching about Creator God Buddha did not say there is not gods But he did not see a creator God from the beginning. Nor did he actually talked much about the beginning of time ( what God called creation
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Tell me please what they are talking about, and how What Bahaullah says, does not know it. I'm looking for logical discussion, not just ways to get way.
Ok.
There are thousands and thousands of pages of writing ascribed to Buddha. Of these the Pali Sutras are considered the oldest and have some claim to being originated within the 1st and 2nd generation of Buddhists and perhaps preserve something close to Buddha's own teachings.
Similarly for Jesus, historians believe that the Synoptic gospels, (Mark, Matthew, Luke) provide a reasonable base for earliest teachings of Jesus.

So a comparison should be , for scholarly authenticity, be limited to these two sources of traditions as a first pass.

Would you agree!
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I think their teaching if that is what's preserved in scriptures both common and rare, is more similar than some admit, but also the dissimilarities remain.
 
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