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The Oldest Profession In The World: Yea Or Nay

Harmless Prostituution. I'm

  • For it

    Votes: 16 64.0%
  • Against it

    Votes: 6 24.0%
  • Having other thoughts

    Votes: 3 12.0%

  • Total voters
    25

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
If the licencee is doing the inspections, why does he have to pay government for inspections that government does not do themselves?
A government agency does the inspections.
The licensee pays fees for this.

As an alternative to please our socialist friends, government
could create an agency to provide free prostitution directly.
But I doubt that the quality would satisfy the citizenry.
The USSR had Worker Pleasure Centers, but they were
dismal, lacked privacy, & were understaffed.
moscow_hospital_1914.jpg


An old Soviet joke....
"They pretend to boink us, & we pretend to enjoy it."
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I know. But how long would I have to purchase you for, and for what purposes, before you would finally recognize it as being humiliating?

Well, you don't purchase *me*. You purchase my *services*, which means we agree *ahead* of time what I will and will not do. You aren't purchasing a slave.

Now, if you go beyond what we agreed to then you have committed a crime of assault.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
But this is not like most jobs. This job involves unredeemable and unnecessary humiliation.

If that is how you feel about it, then don't go into that profession or use the services of that profession. But not everyone has your sensitivities to humiliation.

Now, it isn't a service that I have used nor is it a profession I would go into. But then, neither is baseball umpire.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
In that case, there would be no need for me to pay him.

It is pay for a service, willingly offered. There are many things people do for money that they would not do unless paid for it. Most jobs fall into that category.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
How do I explain that an individual's personal, physical autonomy should not be for sale for money, because it places money as being more important and more valuable than even our most intimate individual autonomy? And to someone who has completely bought into our culture of unchecked greed and selfishness so fully that they actually believe doing so are expressions of liberty? How is it an expression of individual liberty when you have to bribe someone to engage in it? And how is it an expression of liberty when it's the most personal form of liberty that is being purchased, and then ignored, by someone else, for their personal gratification?
I understand what you're saying. What you're NOT saying is why prostitution is an unacceptable reason for an individual's personal, physical autonomy to be for sale for money, but it's acceptable for any other job?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
How do I explain that an individual's personal, physical autonomy should not be for sale for money, because it places money as being more important and more valuable than even our most intimate individual autonomy? And to someone who has completely bought into our culture of unchecked greed and selfishness so fully that they actually believe doing so are expressions of liberty? How is it an expression of individual liberty when you have to bribe someone to engage in it? And how is it an expression of liberty when it's the most personal form of liberty that is being purchased, and then ignored, by someone else, for their personal gratification?


Sounds just like having almost any other job. You do them to get paid because someone else wants your services and is willing to pay you.

Do you really think I would volunteer for my job if I wasn't being paid? Every job means giving up some personal autonomy. We just get to decide in what way we want to dos o.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
It is pay for a service, willingly offered. There are many things people do for money that they would not do unless paid for it. Most jobs fall into that category.
Exactly. Cleaning toilets is "humiliating", at least, as arguably humiliating as prostitution is, and people certainly don't offer to do it without pay. Why is one acceptable, the other not?
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I believe it's very much the same situation, because I don't believe a healthy person would relinquish their dignity and autonomy for money. And it's because healthy people know this is unhealthy behavior that they do not wish to see their loved one engaging in it.

We *all* relinquish our dignity and autonomy for money. That is what a *job* is. Most of us have one and only do them because we are p[aid to do them. ALL jobs require giving up some autonomy and enduring some unpleasantness.

If willingness were not a problem, no money would be necessary. The very fact that money has to be paid infers that the willingness is not authentic.

Do you say this about any other job? Is my willingness to teach not authentic because I wish to be paid for doing it?
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
Sounds just like having almost any other job. You do them to get paid because someone else wants your services and is willing to pay you.

Do you really think I would volunteer for my job if I wasn't being paid? Every job means giving up some personal autonomy. We just get to decide in what way we want to dos o.
Thinking about this conversation offline, I was thinking about every job I've had. All have involved some amount of humiliation (some I think worse than what prostitutes on average experience) arguably I did my job in the military from a sense of duty, rather than for mere pay, but it absolutely involved a loss of personal autonomy, again, one I'd argue is worse than anything the average prostitute experiences.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Exactly. Cleaning toilets is "humiliating", at least as arguably humiliating as prostitution, and people certainly don't offer to do it without pay. Why is one acceptable, the other not?


Truthfully, I would rather be a prostitute that gets to say no to a potential client and agree ahead of time what services are being paid for.

Cleaning public toilets is nasty.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Well, you don't purchase *me*. You purchase my *services*, which means we agree *ahead* of time what I will and will not do. You aren't purchasing a slave.

Now, if you go beyond what we agreed to then you have committed a crime of assault.
When I purchase your mouth to ejaculate in, because that's what I consider an enjoyable thing to do, I have purchased the dismissal of your personal autonomy, the dismissal of your dignity, and paid off any claim you might have had to self-respect. And when you agree to relinquish these things to me, for money, you are effectively agreeing that money is of more importance, and of greater value to you, than they are. That's bad enough just in a one-on-one scenario, but to accept and enable this sort of thinking on a collective social scale, is appalling. And yet our culture has become so money-obsessed that many of us aren't even able to see how appalling it really is. And in fact, will work so hard at NOT seeing it that they will label it a form of 'personal freedom'.
 

Kangaroo Feathers

Yea, it is written in the Book of Cyril...
When I purchase your mouth to ejaculate in, because that's what I enjoy doing, I have purchased the dismissal of your personal autonomy, the dismissal of your dignity, and paid off claim you might have had to self-respect. And when you agree to relinquish these things, for money, you are effectively agreeing that money is of more importance and of greater value to you than they are. That's bad enough just in a one-on-one scenario, but to accept and enable this sort of thing on a collective social scale, is appalling. And yet our culture has become so money-obsessed that many of us aren't even able to see how appalling it really is. And in fact, will actually work at NOT seeing it.
You're stiull not explaining why prostitution is any worse than any other job requiring "dismissal of personal autonomy".
 

PureX

Veteran Member
You're stiull not explaining why prostitution is any worse than any other job requiring "dismissal of personal autonomy".
And you're still not explaining why it's not OK for those you love to sell their body to strangers to use for their own sexual gratification, but it's OK, and harmless, you think, for anyone else to.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
When I purchase your mouth to ejaculate in, because that's what I consider an enjoyable thing to do, I have purchased the dismissal of your personal autonomy, the dismissal of your dignity, and paid off any claim you might have had to self-respect.
Why do you say that? Again, you don't purchase the *mouth*. You purchase a *service*. I'm sorry if you consider ejaculating in someone's mouth as being humiliating or a dismissal of dignity.

And when you agree to relinquish these things to me, for money, you are effectively agreeing that money is of more importance, and of greater value to you, than they are.
Again, I strongly disagree. It is NOT giving up autonomy or dignity. It is offering a service for pay, just like any other job.

That's bad enough just in a one-on-one scenario, but to accept and enable this sort of thinking on a collective social scale, is appalling. And yet our culture has become so money-obsessed that many of us aren't even able to see how appalling it really is. And in fact, will work so hard at NOT seeing it that they will label it a form of 'personal freedom'.

I see it as no more 'appalling' than any other job. From my perspective, it seems like you consider sex to be humiliating or a denial of dignity unless it is done by *your* rules. I strongly disagree. One doesn't give up autonomy when offering a service. One does not lose dignity by having sex, even for pay.

But, if you feel different, then don't do it. But don't say others can't if it is what they want to do.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
And you're not explaining why it's not OK for those you love to sell their body to strangers to use for their own sexual gratification, but it's OK, and harmless, you think, for anyone else to.

In general, I would hope that my loved ones have options that don't involve cleaning toilets or sex for hire. But if those are jobs they *want* to do or are paid enough to make them worthwhile, then I see no issue with them doing them.

Do you want your loved ones cleaning toilets for a living?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Why do you say that? Again, you don't purchase the *mouth*. You purchase a *service*. I'm sorry if you consider ejaculating in someone's mouth as being humiliating or a dismissal of dignity.
Perhaps your semantic word switch is why you don't.

And I don't think such an act is indignant between two people who are intent on giving each other sexual pleasure. But when that's the case, no money is required, or necessary, because no one's personal autonomy, or dignity, is being subjugated.
Again, I strongly disagree. It is NOT giving up autonomy or dignity. It is offering a service for pay, just like any other job.
I know you keep telling yourself this, but it's still BS. What the money is buying is the prostitute's personal physical autonomy, and dignity. And there is no way for you to get around that, because if it wasn't so, no money would be needed. Which is why you keep trying to equate it with other forms of work that do not require the same loss of personal, physical autonomy and dignity.

What's the difference between being hired to clean a toilet, and being hired to clean a toilet naked, on your knees, while other people watch and masturbate? If you really can't (or more likely won't) see the difference as an additional element of personal, physical humiliation, then I really can't help you.
 
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