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A quick question for Christians

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Because God calls who He wants. If he does not want you he does not call.
So He just created some people for no real purpose but to fill up space here on earth? John 3:16 states, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." That sounds pretty all-inclusive to me. He loved "the world" and not some of its inhabitants. I'm sorry, but I just have a really hard time thinking that our Creator would not want all of us to return to His presence someday. Do you actually believe He would not permit some to have the opportunity to repent and accept His Son's sacrifice?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Well, first of all, no one goes to Heaven or Hell the way most people think. Anyway, Jesus will reign over the earth for one thousand years. During that time the resurrected people will learn about God without the influence of Satan and will have the chance to believe the truth.
Something tells me you know a whole lot more about the Jehovah's Witnesses than you're letting on. I mean when your beliefs line up identically with theirs, it's hard to see that as a coincidence, if you know what I mean. ;) You may not officially be a Jehovah's Witness, but you certainly couldn't have come up with that doctrine on your own.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I think I understand your position, now, but I must say I still think you are drawing (haha) a conclusion that does not necessarily follow. It seems to me that the Father may tend to draw everyone but this does not always result in the person being drawn. That is because I am a believer both in free will and in the existence of a wide variety of circumstances that may lead a virtuous person not to follow a particular faith.
I could not have conceivably stated it better.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Something tells me you know a whole lot more about the Jehovah's Witnesses than you're letting on. I mean when your beliefs line up identically with theirs, it's hard to see that as a coincidence, if you know what I mean. ;) You may not officially be a Jehovah's Witness, but you certainly couldn't have come up with that doctrine on your own.
I am not and have never been a JW. I am not even sure exactly what they believe. Maybe they and I both know some truths that others do not?
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
I am not and have never been a JW. I am not even sure exactly what they believe. Maybe they and I both know some truths that others do not?
Yeah, whatever. That would be a huge coincidence, particularly since you've never given any scriptural support for your beliefs. :cool:
 
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Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
You can change your posting options on your Profile. It takes roughly a week to update. If you feel like you're trolling too much, you probably should (I posted something on the Abrahamic section that was a bit too brutally honest so yeah, I'm switching again).

I personally don't believe Christianity is or should be, a fan club. If you are seeing membership in Christianity as salvation, consider Jesus's own words.
"And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

What Jesus wants is good followers, not a good belief.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
A quick question for Christians (am posting here as I am unable to post in the abrahamic forums):

Hi there:

I’ve been thinking… is it possible to meaningfully accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour if you are agnostic about about his current existence and the events described in the gospels? I like him very much and if he was my lord and saviour I would accept him as such. It’s just that I very much doubt that he is.

I see no reason why you could not sincerely engage in a relationship with Jesus as an imaginal figure and reap as deep or even deeper rewards than your average Christian.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
A quick question for Christians (am posting here as I am unable to post in the abrahamic forums):

Hi there:

I’ve been thinking… is it possible to meaningfully accept Jesus Christ as your lord and saviour if you are agnostic about about his current existence and the events described in the gospels? I like him very much and if he was my lord and saviour I would accept him as such. It’s just that I very much doubt that he is.

I'm a Christian who is ready and willing to accept the idea that Jesus was a largely fictional creation of a portion of the Jewish community who found in their belief in Him (never proof based) that they had found their representative before an amoral God on earth. The gospel authors largely imagined this historical figure. You can literally find a deep psychological response within you if you believe in Him. It is entirely unnecessary to believe in Him literally accept temporarily while engaged in a sincere imaginal engagement.

Like going to a movie and temporarily suspending disbelief in order to allow the emotionality or mystery of the story to overtake you. Entertainment that is soul cleansing...
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
You can change your posting options on your Profile. It takes roughly a week to update. If you feel like you're trolling too much, you probably should (I posted something on the Abrahamic section that was a bit too brutally honest so yeah, I'm switching again).

I personally don't believe Christianity is or should be, a fan club. If you are seeing membership in Christianity as salvation, consider Jesus's own words.
"And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham."

What Jesus wants is good followers, not a good belief.

Yes, there is a difference between paying dues and experiencing actual personal transformation (aka psychological improvement) from serious and sincere effort.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I see no reason why you could not sincerely engage in a relationship with Jesus as an imaginal figure and reap as deep or even deeper rewards than your average Christian.

Good point. Once one realises that religions are, at root, a guide for living your life, one can see value in the teachings and the example of biblical figures such as Christ, irrespective of whether you believe in the literal truth of the stories.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
I'm a Christian who is ready and willing to accept the idea that Jesus was a largely fictional creation of a portion of the Jewish community who found in their belief in Him (never proof based) that they had found their representative before an amoral God on earth. The gospel authors largely imagined this historical figure. You can literally find a deep psychological response within you if you believe in Him. It is entirely unnecessary to believe in Him literally accept temporarily while engaged in a sincere imaginal engagement.

Like going to a movie and temporarily suspending disbelief in order to allow the emotionality or mystery of the story to overtake you. Entertainment that is soul cleansing...

I can't understand why anyone would have such an attitude about their spiritual life and more importantly about something which could have very real eternal consequences. No one has this mentality when it comes to physical realities. I mean who in their right mind would get on a plane with someone who imagined they were a pilot, but didn't actually have any training or qualifications? Or worse yet, who would jump off a cliff in an attempt to fly because they wanted to imagine being a plane or a bird!? Would you go have surgery from a pretending surgeon?

The gospels state that Jesus is the Savior, who went to the cross to pay for the sins of the world, rose from the dead in victory over death, and offers forgiveness and eternal life to all who trust Him. It is ridiculous to think that the authors of the gospels, the Apostles, or other early Christians imagined Jesus. It is really one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard. It is documented that all these Apostles, except John and many other early believers were imprisoned, tortured, and brutally killed for believing in Jesus, for testifying that He rose from the dead and that they saw Him alive after His death on the cross. People don't just endure torture and go to their death for a lie, for their wild pretend imaginations! All they had to do was say they made it made up stories about Jesus and they would have saved themselves a lot of pain and suffering...but they never did because everything they said about Jesus they knew to be true, unless every single one of them were united in insanity or were all liars.

And how is lying soul cleansing in any possible way?
 
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