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Adam Schiff of the House Intelligence Committee then and now

Stanyon

WWMRD?
On Trump and Russian collusion

Then:
"It's in plain sight"
"Compelling evidence"
"Direct evidence"
"Ample evidence"
"Plenty of evidence"

Now:
"Impeachment isn't a good idea in the absence of graphic evidence"

What do you think?
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I agree with him, which is why patience, not jumping to premature conclusions one way or the other, is needed.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
On Trump and Russian collusion

Then:
"It's in plain sight"
"Compelling evidence"
"Direct evidence"
"Ample evidence"
"Plenty of evidence"

Now:
"Impeachment isn't a good idea in the absence of graphic evidence"

What do you think?
Full quotes and context:

"Look, you can see evidence in plain sight on the issue of collusion, pretty compelling evidence. Now, there's a difference between seeing evidence of collusion and being able to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt."
- CNN interview, February 17th 2019
SOURCE: Adam Schiff: There Is "Compelling" Evidence "In Plain Sight" Of Trump-Russia Collusion

“I think there is direct evidence in the emails from the Russians through their intermediary offering dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of what is described in writing as the Russian government effort to help elect Donald Trump, they offer that dirt. There is an acceptance of that offer in writing from the president’s son, Don Jr., and there is overt acts in furtherance of that."
- CBS interview, March 3rd 2019
SOURCE: Schiff: There Is “Direct Evidence” of Trump Collusion With Russia

"...“there is already ample evidence in the public domain on the issue of collusion if you are willing to see it.”
- February 15th, 2018
SOURCE: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/02/15/adam-schiff-there-is-ample-evidence-of-collusion/

"Can you agree that there has been no evidence of collusion, coordination, or conspiracy that has been presented thus far between the Trump campaign and Russia?" Brennan asked Schiff.
"No, I don't agree with that at all," Schiff replied. "I think there's plenty of evidence of collusion or conspiracy in plain sight."
- CBS interview, August 5th 2018
SOURCE: 'Plenty of evidence of collusion': Top intel congressman fights Trump lie

I can't find a source for the "impeachment" quote quite as easily. Where can we find it?

EDIT:

Nevermind, found it:

"In the absence of very graphic evidence, it would be difficult to get the support in the Senate needed to make an impeachment successful. Again, my feeling is let's see what Bob Mueller produces. But the evidence would have to be pretty overwhelming."
- CNN interview, March 11th 2019
SOURCE: Adam Schiff: Impeachment gamble not worth it without 'very graphic evidence'
 
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Stanyon

WWMRD?
Full quotes and context:

"Look, you can see evidence in plain sight on the issue of collusion, pretty compelling evidence. Now, there's a difference between seeing evidence of collusion and being able to prove a criminal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt."
- CNN interview, February 17th 2019
SOURCE: Adam Schiff: There Is "Compelling" Evidence "In Plain Sight" Of Trump-Russia Collusion

“I think there is direct evidence in the emails from the Russians through their intermediary offering dirt on Hillary Clinton as part of what is described in writing as the Russian government effort to help elect Donald Trump, they offer that dirt. There is an acceptance of that offer in writing from the president’s son, Don Jr., and there is overt acts in furtherance of that."
- CBS interview, March 3rd 2019
SOURCE: Schiff: There Is “Direct Evidence” of Trump Collusion With Russia

"...“there is already ample evidence in the public domain on the issue of collusion if you are willing to see it.”
- February 15th, 2018
SOURCE: https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/02/15/adam-schiff-there-is-ample-evidence-of-collusion/

"Can you agree that there has been no evidence of collusion, coordination, or conspiracy that has been presented thus far between the Trump campaign and Russia?" Brennan asked Schiff.
"No, I don't agree with that at all," Schiff replied. "I think there's plenty of evidence of collusion or conspiracy in plain sight."
- CBS interview, August 5th 2018
SOURCE: 'Plenty of evidence of collusion': Top intel congressman fights Trump lie

I can't find a source for the "impeachment" quote quite as easily. Where can we find it?

EDIT:

Nevermind, found it:

"In the absence of very graphic evidence, it would be difficult to get the support in the Senate needed to make an impeachment successful. Again, my feeling is let's see what Bob Mueller produces. But the evidence would have to be pretty overwhelming."
- CNN interview, March 11th 2019
SOURCE: Adam Schiff: Impeachment gamble not worth it without 'very graphic evidence'

So they have little to no evidence and it would be difficult to convince anyone with even just a little skepticism and questions of any collusion. All they need is true believers to not question and go along with the program and "impeach the m***** f*****" (the person responsible for that quote has back tracked as well).

Are people that are going along with guilty until proven innocent the types of people that you want running this country?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
So they have little to no evidence and it would be difficult to convince anyone with even just a little skepticism and questions of any collusion.
I think you're stretching it a little bit. He simply said that it would be difficult to get bi-partisan support in the senate to impeach President Trump. If you wish to review the evidence of collusion yourself, there's some listed in one of the links, but I do think it's worth pointing out that there is a clear difference between saying "there is clear evidence of collusion between Trump's campaign and Russia" and saying "there is enough evidence to convince the senate to impeach Donald Trump". Even if collusion were proven beyond any shadow of a doubt, it doesn't necessarily mean that such collusion would lead back to Trump.

All they need is true believers to not question and go along with the program and "impeach the m***** f*****" (the person responsible for that quote has back tracked as well).
So, you're saying that Schiff coming out and saying that there currently isn't enough evidence to convince the senate to impeach Trump shows that they don't want people to question whether or not there is enough evidence to impeach Trump and call for his impeachment anyway?

Are people that are going along with guilty until proven innocent the types of people that you want running this country?
Well, apparently Schiff isn't.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
As has been shown, he was full of premature conclusions.
Some things he and we can conclude, or at least should be able to conclude with some of the evidence we already have.

BTW, I don't recall that you ever spoke up against the oft-heard chant from Trump and his followers at rallies of "Lock her up!". Are you being rather "selective"? Now, here's a great opportunity for you to state that this was blatantly immoral, so are we now going to see this from you? [drum-roll, please]
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Some things he and we can conclude, or at least should be able to conclude with some of the evidence we already have.

We have heard the exact same thing from many religious cults:
"If you just believe"
"Let go, let God"
Schiffs line is the same, if you want to see it you will.
Evidence? He doesn't seem confident there is enough.
 

Yerda

Veteran Member
On Trump and Russian collusion

Then:
"It's in plain sight"
"Compelling evidence"
"Direct evidence"
"Ample evidence"
"Plenty of evidence"

Now:
"Impeachment isn't a good idea in the absence of graphic evidence"

What do you think?
Looks like the collusion story is dead. Or nothing criminal occured if there was any coordination.

I totally bought it. Hands up.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
On Trump and Russian collusion

Then:
"It's in plain sight"
"Compelling evidence"
"Direct evidence"
"Ample evidence"
"Plenty of evidence"

Now:
"Impeachment isn't a good idea in the absence of graphic evidence"

What do you think?

Impeachment is not limited to election tampering charges.

How hard would it be for Schiff or any other House Democrat to subpoena Trump to testify under oath, and how long do you think it would be before he perjured himself?

Furthermore, Trump is being investigated for multiple other types of crimes as well. He's being looked at for campaign law violations, money laundering, emoluments violations, bank fraud, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, and insurance fraud come to mind.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Schiff being on an 'Intelligence' anything should qualify for the "Oxymoron Award of the Week". But you might have to look at it like this: the Dems hung their hats on the 'collusion' charge from the get-go. If this is a bust, then anything they might bring up in the future would have to have a smoking cannon to be believable.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Impeachment is not limited to election tampering charges.

How hard would it be for Schiff or any other House Democrat to subpoena Trump to testify under oath, and how long do you think it would be before he perjured himself?

Furthermore, Trump is being investigated for multiple other types of crimes as well. He's being looked at for campaign law violations, money laundering, emoluments violations, bank fraud, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, and insurance fraud come to mind.

Source?
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Schiff being on an 'Intelligence' anything should qualify for the "Oxymoron Award of the Week". But you might have to look at it like this: the Dems hung their hats on the 'collusion' charge from the get-go. If this is a bust, then anything they might bring up in the future would have to have a smoking cannon to be believable.
:rolleyes:
The press and the Mueller invetigation is looking into the already proven Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential election, as the Russian government (under V. Putin) strove to support D. Trump and lower the chances for H. Clinton.
If Trump helped the Russians in their email hacking and their constant bombardment of social media with lies and propaganda, then THAT is “collusion”.
Collusion in such a case means that Trump effectively committed treason to derail all the votes of the American people and take the presidency of the USA by illegal means. That’s not just impeachable, that gets federal judges asking if the method of execution is firing squad or hanging by the neck until dead.

All that aside; the US constitution reads as follows in
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 4 - Disqualification


The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Bottom line; You want to not get impeached?.... then you have to really toe the line. Bill Clinton was brought before a congressional hearing because of what he was doing in his private life (arguably he became vulnerable to blackmail due to his affair). He was impeached because he lied to congress. Nothing else. That was all it took to impeach the man.

Completely apart from possibly colluding with V. Putin to topple the US voting system. Trump has shown that MANY of the people that he associates with and has surrounded himself with as president are guilty of a variety of “high crimes and misdemeanors”. —>. Article. <—
And this article only deals with people sniffed out by the Mueller’s investigation into collusion. Mueller‘s investigation is in no way looking for other criminal activity. There is just so damn much of it that he keeps stumbling over while looking for collusion, that Mueller had to farm out the court work to other prosecutors and judges. This is also why the incoming Dems have formed new congressional committees to look into OTHER crimes that Trump may have been or is committing. The Repubs utterly bailed on their duties as representatives of the US public by making no such investigations for 2 years, all while licking tRumps rump.

Everything about Trump’s history, down to even the way that he talks, suggest criminal evasiveness and mafia-style loyalty oath’s and obedience, along with bungling stupidity, rampant narcissism, and overt senility. (unfortunately these last 3 cannot get one indicted or impeached).


It’s really too bad your candidate didn’t simply hand over his tax forms like he promised to do. A lot less people would have gone to prison with careers ended if you had just been open and honest like you thought he was being, and man enough to own up to his past. Sad.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Impeachment is not limited to election tampering charges.

How hard would it be for Schiff or any other House Democrat to subpoena Trump to testify under oath, and how long do you think it would be before he perjured himself?

Furthermore, Trump is being investigated for multiple other types of crimes as well. He's being looked at for campaign law violations, money laundering, emoluments violations, bank fraud, tax evasion, obstruction of justice, and insurance fraud come to mind.

This thread is about the alleged Russian collusion and Schiff's pronouncements that there was plenty of evidence and then his retraction.
The endless investigations are/were expected and if all the current investigations fail to come to anything I am sure there will be another, perhaps that Trump passed gas while playing golf?
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
:rolleyes:
The press and the Mueller invetigation is looking into the already proven Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential election, as the Russian government (under V. Putin) strove to support D. Trump and lower the chances for H. Clinton.
If Trump helped the Russians in their email hacking and their constant bombardment of social media with lies and propaganda, then THAT is “collusion”.
Collusion in such a case means that Trump effectively committed treason to derail all the votes of the American people and take the presidency of the USA by illegal means. That’s not just impeachable, that gets federal judges asking if the method of execution is firing squad or hanging by the neck until dead.

All that aside; the US constitution reads as follows in
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 4 - Disqualification


The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Bottom line; You want to not get impeached?.... then you have to really toe the line. Bill Clinton was brought before a congressional hearing because of what he was doing in his private life (arguably he became vulnerable to blackmail due to his affair). He was impeached because he lied to congress. Nothing else. That was all it took to impeach the man.

Completely apart from possibly colluding with V. Putin to topple the US voting system. Trump has shown that MANY of the people that he associates with and has surrounded himself with as president are guilty of a variety of “high crimes and misdemeanors”. —>. Article. <—
And this article only deals with people sniffed out by the Mueller’s investigation into collusion. Mueller‘s investigation is in no way looking for other criminal activity. There is just so damn much of it that he keeps stumbling over while looking for collusion, that Mueller had to farm out the court work to other prosecutors and judges. This is also why the incoming Dems have formed new congressional committees to look into OTHER crimes that Trump may have been or is committing. The Repubs utterly bailed on their duties as representatives of the US public by making no such investigations for 2 years, all while licking tRumps rump.

Everything about Trump’s history, down to even the way that he talks, suggest criminal evasiveness and mafia-style loyalty oath’s and obedience, along with bungling stupidity, rampant narcissism, and overt senility. (unfortunately these last 3 cannot get one indicted or impeached).


It’s really too bad your candidate didn’t simply hand over his tax forms like he promised to do. A lot less people would have gone to prison with careers ended if you had just been open and honest like you thought he was being, and man enough to own up to his past. Sad.

The democrats lost in a free and fair election and can't handle the loss, the "chosen one" blew it for them and now they will do anything and everything to try to discredit and delegitimize the current administration.

The account of the democrats loss in 2020 was carved on a granite stone many moons ago, their anger at the "bad orange man" has worked against them. Andras pulled out their souls, raped them a thousand times and then returned them to their putrid, stinking husks.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
We have heard the exact same thing from many religious cults:
"If you just believe"
"Let go, let God"
Schiffs line is the same, if you want to see it you will.
Evidence? He doesn't seem confident there is enough.
So, why didn't you answer my question?

Secondly, not all "collusion" is criminal.

Finally, why did you bring up religion when we're talking about politics?
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
:rolleyes:
The press and the Mueller invetigation is looking into the already proven Russian interference in the 2016 US presidential election, as the Russian government (under V. Putin) strove to support D. Trump and lower the chances for H. Clinton.
If Trump helped the Russians in their email hacking and their constant bombardment of social media with lies and propaganda, then THAT is “collusion”.
Collusion in such a case means that Trump effectively committed treason to derail all the votes of the American people and take the presidency of the USA by illegal means. That’s not just impeachable, that gets federal judges asking if the method of execution is firing squad or hanging by the neck until dead.

All that aside; the US constitution reads as follows in
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 4 - Disqualification


The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Bottom line; You want to not get impeached?.... then you have to really toe the line. Bill Clinton was brought before a congressional hearing because of what he was doing in his private life (arguably he became vulnerable to blackmail due to his affair). He was impeached because he lied to congress. Nothing else. That was all it took to impeach the man.

Completely apart from possibly colluding with V. Putin to topple the US voting system. Trump has shown that MANY of the people that he associates with and has surrounded himself with as president are guilty of a variety of “high crimes and misdemeanors”. —>. Article. <—
And this article only deals with people sniffed out by the Mueller’s investigation into collusion. Mueller‘s investigation is in no way looking for other criminal activity. There is just so damn much of it that he keeps stumbling over while looking for collusion, that Mueller had to farm out the court work to other prosecutors and judges. This is also why the incoming Dems have formed new congressional committees to look into OTHER crimes that Trump may have been or is committing. The Repubs utterly bailed on their duties as representatives of the US public by making no such investigations for 2 years, all while licking tRumps rump.

Everything about Trump’s history, down to even the way that he talks, suggest criminal evasiveness and mafia-style loyalty oath’s and obedience, along with bungling stupidity, rampant narcissism, and overt senility. (unfortunately these last 3 cannot get one indicted or impeached).


It’s really too bad your candidate didn’t simply hand over his tax forms like he promised to do. A lot less people would have gone to prison with careers ended if you had just been open and honest like you thought he was being, and man enough to own up to his past. Sad.

That, by know stretch of the imagination, is "collusion", let alone treason. If you will look into it you won't even find a legal definition of "collusion" that even comes near what Mueller is looking into.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
The democrats lost in a free and fair election and can't handle the loss, the "chosen one" blew it for them and now they will do anything and everything to try to discredit and delegitimize the current administration.

The account of...........snip.........putrid, stinking husks.
Nope. Wake up, you’re wrong.
Wired
Politico
Politifact
New York Times
Reuters

So.....what is clear and proven is that Russia did interfere, via electronic theft of records, along with social media and US news manipulation with lies and propaganda, the presidential election of 2016 in favor of Trump and against Clinton. Period.

If Trump colluded with them. Bye Bye.
If he didn’t, then great! Of course any other illegal activities can still boot his orange hiney right out of office. So.....we’ll see.


The second paragraph of your post is just ranting, and in the name of goodwill, I am ignoring it.
 
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