Why? How can any form of love be adharmic?
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Hinduism and LGBT
- Thread starter Kapalika
- Start date
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
Many Hindus believe that by raising children, you pay a karmic debt to your parents who raised you. Marriage is often arranged and it is for the purpose of having children "only". Husbands should only have sex with their wives if it is for procreating a child. If sex is for pleasure only, they should avoid it for the sake of purity.
This is not my personal opinion but one should try to learn realistically about the culture one is interested in.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
To conduct oneself in the correct dharma one needs to determine what is acceptable to society.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I don't say it is "Adharmic sexual conduct". My Master teaches to never judge someone, telling us 3 fingers point back when 1 points toward others
No need to keep busy "checking if others act Adharmic". That time is better used to correct our own Adharmic conduct.
My experience of this case was that my Master helped him transcend certain emotions. Not to become hetero or homo.
From age 10 I already knew I would never marry nor get children. Decades later my Master told me about 3 or 4 times He will give me a wife. He even showed a picture of the woman. She looked really gorgious (too good to be true). But still didn't want to marry (I'm not gay either), and was glad I never saw this woman. Then few month later this same gorgious woman bumped into me literally. Then I really gave it a second thought "is it my ego not to marry or should I reconsider". But decided "No, my Master is testing me if I really want God or still want woman". Ca. 10 years later my Master called me in for interview and said "Do not marry, for you it is better not to marry, you have another goal in life. But if you like lady then you must marry. But I warn you now, you won't be happy, so don't blame me later". Normally he speaks not many words. This was important information. Just before leaving the Ashram after many years and it was my final interview.
My Master says "Test is my Taste". So you can not judge what my Master was teaching this man. That was between him and my Master. That interaction is personal. No need to put labels like "adharmic sexual conduct" on this. I just shared this experience to show that my Master does not judge, and only helps us to get happy.
Thank you for posting your Master's wisdom. I am eager to remember these words.
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
If one does not want to marry that is also not acceptable dharmic conduct because one is not setting an example to society in the maintenance of society and, further, the choice of one's partners to love and have sexual relations with. I married because I wanted to be a good son to my parents.
Obviously, your Master is not looking at the question of what is acceptable to society and makes one acceptable to society.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
In culture. religion or law, Hinduism nowhere has discrimination against LGBTQ. Yes we do not interact with them except on happy occasions (Marriages, child birth, new house, new business) when it is customary to give gifts to them. And they would dance, sing a song or bless us. Like the castes, they live in their own world. The current law gives them equality with heterosexuals (this is a work in progress, same-sex marriages are not recognized, but if two people live together, there is no bar. They have been elected as representatives of people at various levels of government. Indian forces also have not been opened to LGBTQ). But I think the progress is in the right direction and satisfactory.
It is only Prabhupada who cribbed about homosexuality. Though people may have their views about religious leaders like Ramakrishna or Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.
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Yes
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
What is acc
Is she sattvic,rajasic or tamasic diety and how is she related to Devi Mahatmya?
I consider Kali to be shakti.
Now I don’t really speak Hindi, I don’t even speak Fijian Hindi, the dialect of my mother. Let alone Sanskrit, which is beyond terrible when I try to speak it. But as a shakti devotee I do not rely on scripture, but the experiential of the divine. I call that divine “Kali.”
As for rajasic or tamasic, as I’m inclined towards Kali to begin with, do you really expect a conservative/traditional answer from me? Seriously??
Shantanu
Well-Known Member
In my understanding you are dealing with the Supreme God(dess) known to me as Sri Krishna/Durga. You are giving it the name Kali: would that be a fair comment?
My apologies, I often use Kali as a sort of shorthand.
I should have specified Bahuchara Mata, but I rarely use the name.
But as Kali Ma is often considered an aspect of Bahuchara Ma, she is sometimes lumped into the protective aspects for the Hijra.
I suppose. If you consider Lord Krishna as the Supreme.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Well, that is a matter of saying. If there is no new generation then many problems crop up like caring for the old people. Hinduism has made that as a part of one's 'dharma'. Marriage is not only for producing children but many more things, including pleasure (
who told you that marriage is only for procreation in Hinduism? That is against the vows made by men and women at the time of marriage*). Then, the general division of work in a Hindu household, men earn and women manage the house (which is a full-time work. The salary is supposed to be handed over to wife, without even opening the packet. I have always done that). Of course, today's world has made changes in that division. Yeah, sexual fidelity is expected of both men and women otherwise many problems crop up, particularly about caring for children. Marriage in Hinduism entails many other duties, not just fun. It is (mostly) a life-long contract, has been 52 years for me.* Hindu wedding - Wikipedia
"We have taken the Seven Steps. You have become mine forever. Yes, we have become partners. I have become yours. Hereafter, I cannot live without you. Do not live without me. Let us share the joys. We are word and meaning, united. You are thought and I am sound. May the night be honey-sweet for us. May the morning be honey-sweet for us. May the earth be honey-sweet for us. May the heavens be honey-sweet for us. May the plants be honey-sweet for us. May the sun be all honey for us. May the cows yield us honey-sweet milk. As the heavens are stable, as the earth is stable, as the mountains are stable, as the whole universe is stable, so may our union be permanently settled."
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Yes you will encounter bigotry. You've encountered it here. But it's bigotry, not dharma. Dharma accepts all, without exception. So look to the folks here who have reinforced that. I'm generally surprised by it as well, as perhaps, like you, we're all a bit naive as to how pervasive these sorts of bigoted ideas are in the world, in media, in total strangers.
Life as a Hindu is about bhakti, service, inner worship, helping others, unloading ego to the Gods, and much more. For most of us, sexuality is down the priority list quite a bit. For bigots, if they focus on race, or on sexuality, that's where their minds are at. It's their number one priority. Most certainly their priority isn't learning tolerance and love, a cornerstone of our faith.
Best wishes, and please don't let it bother you too much. For every bigot, there are 10 or more loving people, and a ton more who are indifferent about such things, accepting it's none of their business. If you were here, in my city, we'd go for tea, and i'd buy.
Aum
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
May be it was so for you. It was an important part of my life and that of my wife. It was as important as eating food and more important than having a sleep.
I don't view dharma as a constant for all people. While there are some consistent duties to society, I think each has one's own dharmic path to follow. For some it may be love through marriage and procreation; for others, it may be a solitary path to union with the divine and a love through helping others as a jivanmukta.
It only makes sense to me as given there are varying degrees of avidya amongst people, there are varying dharmic paths based on the individual's spiritual development.
It only makes sense to me as given there are varying degrees of avidya amongst people, there are varying dharmic paths based on the individual's spiritual development.
May be it was so for you. It was an important part of my life and that of my wife. It was as important as eating food and more important than having a sleep.
At one time it was slightly higher, maybe the first 2 years of marriage. But then the first child arrived. Here in the west the families are mostly all nuclear, not extended, like where you are. So it was just Boss and me, and the kids, so we learned to put sexuality on the back burner. Ganesha's guidance. But I can put food on the back burner too, when something more important calls.
My Guru told a story the other day ... a woman had her first child in her late 30s ... she was an ardent devotee, did daily sadhana regularly. So she phones him up, "Swami, I'm no longer able to do sadhana, I feel so unreligious." He replied, "The child is your sadhana."
So true. For example, lots of people who want kids can't, for biological reasons. And your point is why we have the concept of svadharma, or individual dharma.