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The Bible, Not As Original As You'd Think

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Possibly. The authors of Luke and Matthew both copied large parts of Mark. And the author of Luke states that he is not an eyewitness himself.
That would explain our problem with Luke dating Jesus to 6 A.D. He could have relied on oral accounts. One of the witnesses wanted to emphasize the idea that Jesus was born of humble circumstances so Luke was simply misled. I've given police reports where I remembered wrong... makes sense if you ask me.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
That would explain our problem with Luke dating Jesus to 6 A.D. He could have relied on oral accounts. One of the witnesses wanted to emphasize the idea that Jesus was born of humble circumstances so Luke was simply misled. I've given police reports where I remembered wrong... makes sense if you ask me.
eyewitnesses are often wrong. Twice I have been in the back of a cop car, neither times was I arrested. The second time an officer gave me a ride home when I was the victim of a hit and run accident. I was walking to a local grocery store when at the last street a car after coming to a full stop decided to take a left turn into me as I crossed. They asked me the name and model and I have them a very accurate statement "It was white". For some reason they have caught him or her.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Horus myth is much older than the Genesis myth by more than 2000 years.. and they really are not the same story,

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ? Response to Zeitgeist movie

In short, this was NO "virgin birth" as is clear also from repeated references to Osiris' "seed." A "miraculous birth" perhaps because it involves a dead and then revived husband, but not a virginal conception (sometimes wrongly called an "immaculate conception" -- that has to do in Catholic theology with Mary's conception without Original Sin, not Jesus' conception) nor a virgin birth as contained in the Bible (cf. Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38).
The Book of Genesis claimed to be a record of events that occurred many thousands of years before it was written.

If I were to write a book today about events that happened in WWII, you would claim that it could not be accurate because it wasn't written during the actual war by actual participants of the war?

Adam existed before the Egyptians. Our oldest written record of Adam did not exist until Moses wrote it in the Book of Genesis.

Also, I never claimed that the Horus myth would coincide exactly with the story of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I said that the original story known by Adam had become twisted and distorted over time.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Book of Genesis claimed to be a record of events that occurred many thousands of years before it was written.

If I were to write a book today about events that happened in WWII, you would claim that it could not be accurate because it wasn't written during the actual war by actual participants of the war?

Adam existed before the Egyptians. Our oldest written record of Adam did not exist until Moses wrote it in the Book of Genesis.

Also, I never claimed that the Horus myth would coincide exactly with the story of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Moses didn't write the Pentateuch . He'd been dead 800 years before Genesis and Exodus were written.

I said that the original story known by Adam had become twisted and distorted over time.

The Hebrews borrowed Adam and Eve from the Babylonian myth. They are considered didactic literature. And, the myths of Sumer were written on clay tablets long before the Hebrews.. The Northcoast Canaanites also had writing that predates the Hebrews by 2000 years.
 
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Augustus. New Atheists are never wrong... And that you would challenge any given narrative of theirs is proof that you're a helpless sap under the influence Christian propaganda.

Well only a brainwashed apologist could refuse to uncritically accept an argument supported by the apex of scholarly credibility: a picture off the internet.

Unfortunately New Atheist groupthink tends to be as completely impervious to reason as fundamentalist religious belief is.

Does X paint religion in a bad light?
1. If yes then it is self-evidently true and can be uncritically accepted as fact.
2. If no then it is obviously religious apologetics as everyone knows religion is the cause of all evil and nothing good has ever come of it. As such it can be rejected out of hand even if it is supported by multiple pieces of peer-reviewed academic research written by a respected secular scholars.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Book of Genesis claimed to be a record of events that occurred many thousands of years before it was written.

If I were to write a book today about events that happened in WWII, you would claim that it could not be accurate because it wasn't written during the actual war by actual participants of the war?

Adam existed before the Egyptians. Our oldest written record of Adam did not exist until Moses wrote it in the Book of Genesis.

Also, I never claimed that the Horus myth would coincide exactly with the story of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I said that the original story known by Adam had become twisted and distorted over time.
No, but I would claim it was inaccurate if it disagreed with all of the observable evidence. For example if someone claimed that the Nazis fought in dogfights from supersonic zeppelins I would point out how ridiculous that claim is and how it was not supported by any evidence not was it possible.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The Book of Genesis claimed to be a record of events that occurred many thousands of years before it was written.

If I were to write a book today about events that happened in WWII, you would claim that it could not be accurate because it wasn't written during the actual war by actual participants of the war?

Adam existed before the Egyptians. Our oldest written record of Adam did not exist until Moses wrote it in the Book of Genesis.

Also, I never claimed that the Horus myth would coincide exactly with the story of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I said that the original story known by Adam had become twisted and distorted over time.
Sorry, one cannot support one myth by relying upon another.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Because no one makes money telling puffed up atheists with a delusional confidence in their own objectivity, knowledge and rationality what they want to hear..

What I want to hear? How would YOU know? Are you now, a Mind Reader?

In fact, Oh Most Sarcastic Of All: I would love for there to be a Magical Super-Being, who watches out for the collective fate of Humanity-- never mind all the salacious pedophilia that is so rampant among God's Self-Proclaimed Spokes Weenies...

Pot meet kettle..

nope. See above. Your hateful projection likely stems from deep within your own self-doubts that all the bs you've been brainwashed with, is in fact, just more bs.

Augustus. New Atheists are never wrong... And that you would challenge any given narrative of theirs is proof that you're a helpless sap under the influence Christian propaganda.

LMAO! I have no idea what any of that bs means. Word Salad, I guess-- want some vinaigrette with that to go?

I don't know what an "Augustus" is. I have no clue what a "New Atheists" is, either. Perhaps, since you have Magical Telepathic Insight Into Everyone On the Earth, you could fill us in?
 

sooda

Veteran Member
The Book of Genesis claimed to be a record of events that occurred many thousands of years before it was written.

If I were to write a book today about events that happened in WWII, you would claim that it could not be accurate because it wasn't written during the actual war by actual participants of the war?

Adam existed before the Egyptians. Our oldest written record of Adam did not exist until Moses wrote it in the Book of Genesis.

Also, I never claimed that the Horus myth would coincide exactly with the story of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I said that the original story known by Adam had become twisted and distorted over time.

I don't care about Horus.. The story of Adam and Eve was taken from myth of Sumer and it was written down on clay tablets 1500 years before there were any Hebrews.

Babylonian Origins of the Creation Myth of Adam and Eve

Nov 21, 2012 · Babylonian Origins of the Creation Myth of Adam and Eve Babylonian Creation Myth. Babylonians had this legend of the Creation and Fall of Man, some 1,500 years or more before the Hebrews heard of it. The cuneiform inscriptions relating to the Babylonian legend of the Creation and Fall of Man, which have been discovered by English archæologists …

Apocrypha The First Book of Adam and Eve: Babylonian Origins of the Creation Myth of Adam and Eve

…. are not, however, complete. The portions which relate to the Tree and Serpent have not been found, but Babylonian gem engravings show that these incidents were evidently a part of the original legend. The Tree of Life in the Genesis account appears to correspond with the sacred grove of Anu, which was guarded by a sword turning to all the four points of the compass. representation of this Sacred Tree, with "attendant cherubim," copied from an Assyrian cylinder, may be seen in Mr. George Smith's "Chaldean Account of Genesis." Figure No. 1, which we have taken from the same work, shows the tree of knowledge, fruit, and the serpent. Mr. Smith says of it:
"One striking and important specimen of early type in the British Museum collection, has two figures sitting one on each side of a tree, holding out their hands to the fruit, while at the back of one (the woman) is scratched a serpent. We know well that in these early sculptures none of these figures were chance devices, but all represented events, or supposed events, and figures in their legends; thus it is evident that a form of the story of the Fall, similar to that of Genesis, was known in early times in Babylonia."
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
By the way Bob, I would like to tell you I am schizophrenic. So with delusions, hallucinations and thought broadcasting and a lot of other stuff, I'd say I've been forced quite well to handle a little cognitive dissonance!

It's not a virtue, you know. Much better to dump those ideas that demonstratively do not fit within actual reality.

Gravity-- even without any understanding of the Theory Of Gravity, will assert it's effects upon a falling body, be it a True Believer or a Hardened Skeptic, with equal indifference.

Reality won't bend to fit your desired WorldView.

Science has proven itself, time and again, to ferret out Actual Reality-- often directly against the Desired Worldview of the researchers best hopes and dreams!

Do you know that the discoverers of the Expanding Universe truly did not want to discover that information? They, each and everyone, believed in a Steady State Universe. That was their Bias.

But. The scientific method forces people who use it, to set aside their biases, and to examine the facts, the evidence, the collected data-- and see which direction it leads.

Even if they were rather that it didn't.

That is why the Scientific Method Works.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
....Your question about why people do not live up
to ideals. Why indeed. Nobody does, it is actually
impossible, ...

Please explain, why do you think it is impossible?

I think it is possible with God. But if the teaching would not be from God but from humans, why would take invent it, if it is impossible to live by it?
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It's not a virtue, you know. Much better to dump those ideas that demonstratively do not fit within actual reality.

Gravity-- even without any understanding of the Theory Of Gravity, will assert it's effects upon a falling body, be it a True Believer or a Hardened Skeptic, with equal indifference.

Reality won't bend to fit your desired WorldView.

Science has proven itself, time and again, to ferret out Actual Reality-- often directly against the Desired Worldview of the researchers best hopes and dreams!

Do you know that the discoverers of the Expanding Universe truly did not want to discover that information? They, each and everyone, believed in a Steady State Universe. That was their Bias.

But. The scientific method forces people who use it, to set aside their biases, and to examine the facts, the evidence, the collected data-- and see which direction it leads.

Even if they were rather that it didn't.

That is why the Scientific Method Works.
Yes and I am scientific and objective in that regard I promise. When I see the data telling me something, I listen.

That's why I didn't believe in the New Testament when Subduction Zone told me about Luke's Nativity story but when we realized that he wasn't an eye witness and there were four gospels for the very reason that they would mess up I was allowed to continue to believe.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Please explain, why do you think it is impossible?

I think it is possible with God. But if the teaching would not be from God but from humans, why would take invent it, if it is impossible to live by it?

If one does magic, nothing is impossible.

IF there was a magic flood, though, let us see
what that means-

"God" is a mass murderer, of a most ssdistic sort.
I will leave you to think through 40 days of terrifird
fathers and mothers trying to save their children.
Never mind trillions of innocent animals.

If there was no flood then the floodies are levelling
some pretty serious calumny at the god they claim
to respect and worship.

Flood sign should be everywhere, in many forms but
there is none. Why? We have hundreds of thousands
years' ice in Antarctica. No way that survives going
underwater (ice floats). But there it is.

That is just a peek at the problems for it being a real
story, but , if there was a magic flood, god cleaned up all
All all the evidence, and falsified other evidence to
make it look as if there was no flood.

How does this seem to you?
You dont know any of this?
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
What I want to hear? How would YOU know? Are you now, a Mind Reader?
I do not need to be a mind reader to know when I am speaking with an ideologue. Your posts so encapsulate the internet atheist stereotype that I sometimes wonder if I should invoke Poe's law.

In fact, Oh Most Sarcastic Of All: I would love for there to be a Magical Super-Being, who watches out for the collective fate of Humanity-- never mind all the salacious pedophilia that is so rampant among God's Self-Proclaimed Spokes Weenies...
No you wouldn't. Because the day your heart stops beating you will be forced to give an account for every single unrepentant sin you have committed since the age of reason. And those men who though their terrible acts have sacrilegiously dragged the priesthood though the reputational mud are in a terrifying position before God. Because without serious lifelong repentance those men (as per Catholic teaching) are facing the very real possibility of eternal damnation. Matthew 7:22-23

Your hateful projection likely stems from deep within your own self-doubts that all the bs you've been brainwashed with, is in fact, just more bs.
Rocks in glass houses.

LMAO! I have no idea what any of that bs means. Word Salad, I guess-- want some vinaigrette with that to go?

I don't know what an "Augustus" is. I have no clue what a "New Atheists" is, either. Perhaps, since you have Magical Telepathic Insight Into Everyone On the Earth, you could fill us in?
I admit that I can be prone to verbosity when I'm not being careful about it, nevertheless what I posted wasn't particularly complicated. Augustus is the user to whom the previously quoted was addressed. And unlike you he seems to not have had much trouble in understanding what was posted.
 
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Augustus is the user to whom the previously quoted was addressed. And unlike you he seems to not have had much trouble in understanding what was posted.

Fortunately, he has me on ignore so can't see that. It's great when this happens as you can correct their mistakes without having to engage with the witless inanity of any replies :D
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
Fortunately, he has me on ignore so can't see that. It's great when this happens as you can correct their mistakes without having to engage with the witless inanity of any replies :D
Oh... I see. With that context what he said now makes a modicum of sense.
 
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