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The Bible, Not As Original As You'd Think

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
You forget that oral story tellers have always existed. Through oral story teller's creative repurposing of material from many traditions, stories could move and change quickly along any trading route.

I did forget to mention the oral story tellers.

But my point was that some stories might be true. They need not be all just fabricated, which feeling the phase "recycled stories" gave me
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Except? That Horus is thousands of years **older** than the Jesus Myth, which is clearly based on the concept, if loosely.

The older myth trumps the younger one. Which is why the bible is easily trumped by older myths-- it's not that old, with respect to Human Civilization. The bible really only reliably dates to around 500 BCE...
Why didn't you read my post?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The events that would befall the Lord Jesus Christ during His mortal sojourn were known to Adam and all the holy prophets before His birth.

Descendants of Ham who apostatized formed their own twisted version of His mortal life that had already been revealed since our first parents.

The story of Horus is a distorted version of the events of the life of the Lord Jesus Christ which have been known since before the Earth was formed.
Here is your post that you complained about not being read. If Jesus was God he would have known that those stories were myths. And no, since the Horus myth existed first it could not be a distortion of the Jesus myth. How did you get cause and effect so backwards?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
In another Googlable post...
Loving your enemy in Buddhism

Here is another more expansive comparison...
Parallel philosophies of Lord Krishna and Jesus Christ

Given Matthew's apparent basic knowledge of Buddhism I suspect an inspirational relationship between the Beatitudes and the Eightfold Path .

Sorry, I think Buddhism is far from what Jesus taught, even if there is one similar thing. But in that “Loving your enemy in Buddhism", I didn’t notice the “loving your enemy”, but instead I found this:

Neither will our minds become perverted nor will we utter an evil speech, but kindly and compassionate will we dwell, …

That is probably copied from Old Testament that says:

Thus has Yahweh of Hosts spoken, saying, 'Execute true judgment, and show kindness and compassion every man to his brother.
Zechariah 7:9
 

1213

Well-Known Member
I don't know if Horus ever did that sort of teaching. But other sources clearly have. The Golden Rule did not originate with Jesus:..

The golden rule is also in the Old Testament (Lev. 19:18). But I was not speaking of golden rule but about the saying “love your enemy”.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
[QUOTE="1213, post: 6003978, member: 63370"]I don’t think you know Jesus and his teachings well, if you say so. But in this case, please show one example of another person who says “love your enemy”?[/QUOTE]

Who might it be who has not bothered to study,
or even play google for less than five minutes?

But, supposing that I scour the world, and cannot
find one example?

Is "love your enemy" the sum total of what makes
"Jesus" so special?

i need not scour the world, and, your
request for one example is easily met.

Here, your cup floweth over.

"Do not return evil to your adversary; Requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, Maintain justice for your enemy."
(the Akkadian "Counsels of Wisdom", circa 2000 BC)



"In this world hate never yet dispelled hate. Only love dispels hate. This is the law, ancient and inexhaustible."
(The Dhammapada)



"Return love for hatred. Otherwise, when a great hatred is reconciled, some of it will surely remain. How can this end in goodness? "
(Taoist "T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien", circa 200 BC


Of course, KJV is not phrased as in Aramaic, and
nobody actually knows the exact words that
"Jesus" said.

You going to try to quibble that the examples are
not the EXACT same words?
 
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sealchan

Well-Known Member
I did forget to mention the oral story tellers.

But my point was that some stories might be true. They need not be all just fabricated, which feeling the phase "recycled stories" gave me

Well in the oral cultures the story was the truth. There just was no way to reference any more authoritative source that was accessible. So fabrication was beneath notice and verification way beyond practical. The truth value of any story could not be known then and can only be estimated now barring physical evidence.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Do you realize how you utterly failed? I could support my claims with valid sources, actual historians who care about what really happened, but since you used such a low grade source my word alone is enough. Also you in effect make any claims of historicity of Jesus false since you are denying the work of the very historians that Christians rely upon for those claims. You only supported my claim that "theistic reasoning" is faulty.
Anyway, I realized today that I never gave myself a chance to answer my challenge. The challenge was, you find something mythical and I find if it has theistic value.

Luke was clearly wrong. However the story of Mary and Joseph having to travel to be taxed shows that the baby Jesus was born under humble circumstances. It tells us theistically that God would descend below everything to help us rise above everything.

So would you rather teach that God descended below everything to help us rise above everything or that Luke 1-2 was wrong? And before you answer, remember that a great many Nobel Prize winners have been Christian. I think the answer is clear that helping society feel fulfilled is more important than getting a fact straight.
 

Prestor John

Well-Known Member
Here is your post that you complained about not being read. If Jesus was God he would have known that those stories were myths. And no, since the Horus myth existed first it could not be a distortion of the Jesus myth. How did you get cause and effect so backwards?
Adam was the first Man. He existed before the Egyptians.

Adam knew, through revelation, future events, including what would befall the Lord during His mortal ministry.

The truth he received about Christ was passed down to his descendants, but those that lost their way distorted that truth and converted it into their own false myths.

The Horus myth did not exist first.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Adam was the first Man. He existed before the Egyptians.

Adam knew, through revelation, future events, including what would befall the Lord during His mortal ministry.

The truth he received about Christ was passed down to his descendants, but those that lost their way distorted that truth and converted it into their own false myths.

The Horus myth did not exist first.
No. Adam was a myth. He was not invented until after the first Egyptians lived. By claiming that Jesus believed the myths of the Bible, and he very well may have, you are claiming that he is not divine.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Anyway, I realized today that I never gave myself a chance to answer my challenge. The challenge was, you find something mythical and I find if it has theistic value.

Luke was clearly wrong. However the story of Mary and Joseph having to travel to be taxed shows that the baby Jesus was born under humble circumstances. It tells us theistically that God would descend below everything to help us rise above everything.

So would you rather teach that God descended below everything to help us rise above everything or that Luke 1-2 was wrong? And before you answer, remember that a great many Nobel Prize winners have been Christian. I think the answer is clear that helping society feel fulfilled is more important than getting a fact straight.
Now you are only making excuses for the errors of the Bible. If that gives them "theistic value" then I that is a bankrupt concept. Better to drop it. If someone has to tell tales to sell an idea that tells us that the idea is a bit on the weak side.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Adam was the first Man. He existed before the Egyptians.

Adam knew, through revelation, future events, including what would befall the Lord during His mortal ministry.

The truth he received about Christ was passed down to his descendants, but those that lost their way distorted that truth and converted it into their own false myths.

The Horus myth did not exist first.

Horus myth is much older than the Genesis myth by more than 2000 years.. and they really are not the same story,

All About Horus: An Egyptian Copy of Christ? Response to Zeitgeist movie

In short, this was NO "virgin birth" as is clear also from repeated references to Osiris' "seed." A "miraculous birth" perhaps because it involves a dead and then revived husband, but not a virginal conception (sometimes wrongly called an "immaculate conception" -- that has to do in Catholic theology with Mary's conception without Original Sin, not Jesus' conception) nor a virgin birth as contained in the Bible (cf. Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-38).
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Here is your post that you complained about not being read. If Jesus was God he would have known that those stories were myths. And no, since the Horus myth existed first it could not be a distortion of the Jesus myth. How did you get cause and effect so backwards?

Jesus only knew what he and other Jews had been taught ..

The story of Adam and Eve is also borrowed.

Babylonians had this legend of the Creation and Fall of Man, some 1,500 years or more before the Hebrews heard of it. The cuneiform inscriptions relating to the Babylonian legend of the Creation and Fall of Man, which have been discovered by English archæologists, are not, however, complete. The portions which relate to the Tree and Serpent have not been found, but Babylonian gem engravings show that these incidents were evidently a part of the original legend.

The Tree of Life in the Genesis account appears to correspond with the sacred grove of Anu, which was guarded by a sword turning to all the four points of the compass. representation of this Sacred Tree, with "attendant cherubim," copied from an Assyrian cylinder, may be seen in Mr. George Smith's "Chaldean Account of Genesis." Figure No. 1, which we have taken from the same work, shows the tree of knowledge, fruit, and the serpent. Mr. Smith says of it:

continued

Apocrypha The First Book of Adam and Eve: Babylonian Origins of the Creation Myth of Adam and Eve
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
For starters, Horus was conceived when Isis put together and temporally resurrected Osiris. They also made use of an artificial penis as Isis couldn't find the real one. (Osiris having been eaten by crocodiles).

[For everyone's information, I didn't create the list]
I know. That and similar claims have been circulating since the 1800's. It is old obscure quackery resurrected in recent times by credulous atheists (and new agers) on the internet who will swallow, nay guzzle down any nonsense that feeds into their ideological preconceptions when it comes to Christianity.
 
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Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
By "professional scholars" do you mean people who make huge sums of cash-money, selling and pushing the Jesus Myth?

Of course they must reject anything that endangers or enlightens their customers...
Because no one makes money telling puffed up atheists with a delusional confidence in their own objectivity, knowledge and rationality what they want to hear.

Pot meet kettle.

Oh well, at least you'll have gotten used to being wrong by now.
Augustus. New Atheists are never wrong... And that you would challenge any given narrative of theirs is proof that you're a helpless sap under the influence Christian propaganda.
 
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