Who Has the truth? Who Will Bring World Peace?

[Vinayaka]

Every faith has a line that needs to be drawn as to what is acceptable and what is not. Cutting ties with family members simply because they decide to break Baha'i laws or no longer want to be a Baha'i is not what Baha'is do.

You are thinking about the example of a covenant breaker. This is an extremely rare situation and in my country believe there has been only one instance over the 100 year period that our Faith has been established in New Zealand within a current membership of about 3,000 people.

In regards truth, for you reincarnation and Moksha is a truth that no other faith has except Buddhists to some extent. Of course you believe Hindus to be correct and Abrahamics such as myself wrong. I'm good with that, but don't imagine yourself being immune to an "I'm right, your wrong" mentality.

As for shunning, I would think many people in that situation would be quite happy not to have to deal with the folks they were having trouble with ... from both sides. It's not a one sided affair, by any means.

I actually don't think I'm right and you're wrong, despite what you might accuse me of. I believe God created/emanated many systems of belief so each could could find a place that they are comfortable with. So everyone has a place that is right for them. The last thing I'd ever want to do is get people to become Hindus if they're totally satisfied with their own faiths. It would be doing them a huge disservice. We (other than ISKCON, and some others) have a very long history of non-proselytising for that very reason.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It was just one example. I googled 'cult of Bahaism' and got many hits. You should try it. I was just pointing out that others have used the term before I did, and I learned it from them. Would you like me to post all the links I found? There are many. So despite your negative reaction to the word being applied to your faith, there are many folks who would disagree.

Edited ... Here's another example of the word's use ... Cult of Hinduism

From the website your posted:

If you look up "CULT" in the dictionary, you will find a very broad definition of the word which could apply to almost any group of people that worship any person or image or even someone that follows Jesus. The dictionary definition is not specific as to what a cult really is. We all know that man wrote the dictionary with head knowledge, but the word of God is inspired by the Spirit of God and is our only absolute truth.

A cult according to the Word of God is any group of people that worship anything or anyone other than Jesus Christ, and believe anything contrary to His Word as found in the Bible. With that in mind, we must believe that anyone, who claims to know or preach that there is any other way to reach, or know God other than the Lord Jesus Christ is "THE ANTICHRIST" because this is what Jesus has told us in His word.

What is a Cult? - Resource Center - European American Evangelistic Crusades

Sounds like the Baha'i Faith, Hinduism and Jehovah witness are all cults. Even Atheists and agnostics are cults. It doesn't really help our discussion does it. Just because the Christian fundamentalists throw the word around with such ease doesn't mean any of us should use it. You wanted a reaction and you got it. Means we must be a cult eh?

I did google 'Baha'i cult' and its more of the same really.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh don't worry, they go after Baha'u'llah as well, lol. You want some links?

Let's see some of those.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As for shunning, I would think many people in that situation would be quite happy not to have to deal with the folks they were having trouble with ... from both sides. It's not a one sided affair, by any means.

The issue of Covenant Breaking is not something I've had to deal with after 20 years serving on an assembly. There was a case in New Zealand many years ago far from where I live. I don't think the women was married, nor had Baha'i relatives. I could be wrong.

I actually don't think I'm right and you're wrong, despite what you might accuse me of. I believe God created/emanated many systems of belief so each could could find a place that they are comfortable with. So everyone has a place that is right for them. The last thing I'd ever want to do is get people to become Hindus if they're totally satisfied with their own faiths. It would be doing them a huge disservice. We (other than ISKCON, and some others) have a very long history of non-proselytising for that very reason.

Common lol. Reincarnation is either true or its not. Being able to work through karma over many lifetimes to achieve final liberation from the cycle of life and birth is what you believe. I don't believe it so surely I'm a less advanced soul than you. The caste system in India has reinforced such thinking and privilege in India for centuries. You don't need to proselytize like the JWs, Baha'is and ISHKON to have a quiet sense of superiority.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Let's see some of those.

Yes, that's the spirit. Let's all hold hands, chant Alla'u'Abha and have a cult affirming experience. I'm sure we could find some other cult like behaviours to embrace for a little more fun.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Comparing an ex-Bahai who had problems with Hitler? Well, isn't that handy?

No that was not at all the intent , as you very well know. It was used as a classic example of a very weak argument, that was recently used about POV in relation to justice.

Regards Tony

 

[dfnj]

One man's religion is another man's cult.

One person's dogma is another person's definition of insanity. Maybe we are all insane. Maybe everyone's dogma is insane.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes, that's the spirit. Let's all hold hands, chant Alla'u'Abha and have a cult affirming experience. I'm sure we could find some other cult like behaviours to embrace for a little more fun.

Meanwhile Deeje is ROFLOL. All the while yelling, got you where I wanted you.
Regards Tony

 

[Dawnofhope]

Meanwhile Deeje is ROFLOL. All the while yelling, got you where I wanted you.
Regards Tony

Its good for Deeje. I was feeling sorry for her having everyone criticising. Let the Baha'is cop some flack for a while.

 

[Trailblazer]

One man's religion is another man's cult.

One person's dogma is another person's definition of insanity. Maybe we are all insane. Maybe everyone's dogma is insane.

Or maybe we all just believe in the One True God and it doesn't matter which religion we call ourselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

Let the Baha'is cop some flack for a while.

We gots lots of practice.
Bring it on, the worst thing that can happen is that they can prove that Baha'u'llah was a false prophet.... Lotsa luck... They'd have to prove all the prophecies in the Bible are wrong, including explaining how all those big buildings came to be located atop Mt. Carmel, and there are all them there pretty flowers too....

It is so much fun watching people try to disprove the Baha'i Faith....

Isaiah 35 King James Version (KJV)

35 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

I do not know much about what JWs do, only what I have read on this forum, which is limited, but I resent the fact that some people say that Baha'is control their members, just because we have strict laws. We are enjoined to control ourselves, but that is not the same as saying that the Baha'i administration controls its members. I am sure there might be some exceptions, if a Baha'is make public spectacles of themselves, but I see nothing wrong with admonishing them for that because they are setting a bad example for the Faith.

BTW, good to meet you, I always like meeting new people. I do not get out much, hardly at all, except yo go to work...

It's good to meet you as well. I know very little about the Baha'i faith, so I really cannot comment on whether or not the members are subject to control.

However, the leaders of the JWs "counsel" them on almost everything...how to dress, what to read, what movies to see, with whom they should associate, what music to listen to, what internet sites are allowed (actually the ONLY one endorsed by the WTS is the JW.org site) and many additional things. Granted, a JW is not forced to follow any of the rules, but those who are considered to be "independent thinkers" who decide for themselves on these many, many issues are generally then labelled as being "spiritually weak" or possibly "bad association" and the "good" JWs are cautioned about such ones.

JWs are told that all of the rules and counsel are there for their "protection" and the majority of JWs simply comply. There are, of course, JWs such as the ones who post here or on other forums who believe that simply by ignoring former members (apostates) and posting anonymously, they are in the clear. It's doubtful, however, that any of these JWs who are bending the rules would ever let their elders know how they spend their time online. Some of these JWs even "count their time" when posting, believing that quoting scriptures and posting openly only to non-JWs makes it okay. Their leaders disagree, but it's good that they do flout THIS rule at least.

 

[RedhorseWoman]

Thanks, it is good to hear other people's stories because I feel very much alone in this, although I am sad that they have the stories. But as everyone tells me, it goes with the territory of renting houses.

I never would have purchased a house as a rental. The reason we had one of the two houses we rent is because we lived there for 17 years and bought another house, and we moved out just when the economy and housing prices tanked in May 2008, so we could not sell back then. So we thought it prudent to rent it -- oh what a nightmare it has been! We did have some good tenants but the bad outweighed the good and most of the problems we have had are those who did not pay the rent. Nobody has ever done any damage to the house.

One reason we rented to the sex offender is because I knew he had the money to pay the rent. He sure did pay the rent on time too but he used that as leverage to try to manipulate me. It is true that the house needed repairs when he moved in but he badgered me for two months to rent it anyway, knowing it needed repairs. i told him it might take some time to get those repairs done but all i got was silence. He wanted a Lease and I have ample proof of how much he badgered me for one, but in the Lease it says "accepts house in its present condition." But he did not accept it; after he got in all he did was complain about the repairs it needed, which was due to water damage sustained by a broken pipe. That affected the usability of about one third of the house but I could only move as fast as I could to get them done.

The second month I offered to let him out of his Lease and give him his deposits back but he would not leave.... He just kept threatening me with inspectors and attorneys but I did not know he would actually try to sue. He did not get the attorney to write the demand letters till he was ready to vacate on his own... The tenant was a contractor so all along he tried to make me hire him to do the work but he was going to charge three times the market rate and what my insurance company allowed for the damages. It was right after I hired a contractor for the work that I got the demand letter from his attorney claiming he was damaged by the mold that was there because of the water damage. Funny coincidence... The guy is a con-man and a schemer but because I am the kind of person who feels responsible and blames myself for everything he took advantage of that.

However, I knew what he was up to shortly after he moved in because it was obvious. I still wonder if any of this could be my fault, from a legal standpoint. I never hired an attorney although I consulted with several Legal Shield attorneys and they did not seem to think he had any case... Then the last LS attorney told me to report it to my insurance company, which I did. Now they are dealing with it but I have heard nothing in over a month so I am really worried what might be going on.

To claim damages, he would have to prove his health was affected by the mold and even then I do not know if I am culpable because we have no laws in this state that state that there cannot be mold, only laws that state that we have to do any repairs that would cause mold, and I was trying to get those done, although it took a long time. He could have just moved out but being a sex offender it would be hard if even possible for him to get another rental.

At the end of the day I will never know what his motives were so there is no point speculating... I just want this resolved so I can move on. My contractor did all the repairs from water damage and some additional improvements, and there are still some minor repairs that have to be done before I can rent it, but I have a contractor I trust so I plan to hire him.

On top of all this, the tenants that lived there for five years before he moved in owe me $6750 in back rent. They promised to to pay the debt when they left and then they ignored my e-mails. I plan to go to small claims court unless they will agree to pay me on a payment plan... How much more can I take from these people? It's just wrong.

Anyway, sorry I derailed the thread. I guess I just needed to talk.

Oh, the stories we could share!! The "friends" we had originally rented the house to did more damage than I like to remember. They had asked at one point if they could put in a dog door in the small tool room attached to the garage. We thought that they would put in a legitimate dog door. They didn't. What they did was to cut a large hole in the outside door and put a flap of carpet over it. That let in a lot of cold air, and their dogs made a habit of chewing the insulation off the pipes that carried the hot water for the heated garage (not the best setup, for sure, but no problem until the insulation was gone and the dog door let in all of the cold air.)

During one severe cold snap this couple went on a trip to Florida, leaving their elderly uncle at the house. The pipes froze and burst, and the uncle refused to let us in to determine the damage. We got that fixed finally and thought everything was okay until they decided to leave. They had a "financial plan" that involved building up huge amounts of debt and then declaring bankruptcy. Because they had declared bankruptcy, they were not required to pay rent, which they, of course, didn't pay.

When they moved out in December, they made sure that there was no oil in the tank for the furnace, and then opened all the windows about two inches (hoping we wouldn't notice) so that the pipes would freeze again. They also allowed their dogs to pee all over the carpets and, because we had a sump pump in the basement to handle water that would sometimes seep in around the foundation, they cut the hose so that any water would just remain in the basement in order to flood it.

Fortunately, due to a rider that we insisted they get on their renters' insurance when they installed an above ground pool, we were able to get some help from the insurance company, but it was a struggle.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The problem with Daniel 7 and 8 is that Daniel was never in Babylon.. He wrote the Book of Daniel in 165-68 BC during the Maccabean Revolt and during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.. he called himself "god manifest" and introduced the Abomination of Desolation.

I know its confusing, but it helps to know what a "prophet" was in Israel and what a prophet was NOT..

Well, I don’t agree with most ideas that are highly suggestive, especially those calling into question the Bible’s stated timeline. This view would bring into question, not just Daniel, but all the prophets who mentioned Daniel.
Even Jesus quoted from Daniel....Jesus wouldn’t have done so, if Daniel had been a liar regarding the era he lived in. That would have called into question everything he wrote.

So, I don’t believe that POV.

Take care.

 

[sooda]

Well, I don’t agree with most ideas that are highly suggestive, especially those calling into question the Bible’s stated timeline. This view would bring into question, not just Daniel, but all the prophets who mentioned Daniel.
Even Jesus quoted from Daniel....Jesus wouldn’t have done so, if Daniel had been a liar regarding the era he lived in. That would have called into question everything he wrote.

So, I don’t believe that POV.

Take care.

Its like I said... What is a prophet?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Its like I said... What is a prophet?

Prophet


One through whom divine purposes are made known. Prophets acted as spokesmen for God, conveying not only predictions but also Jehovah’s teachings, commands, and judgments.—Amos 3:7; 2 Peter 1:21.

Source: Prophet — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Trailblazer]

It's good to meet you as well. I know very little about the Baha'i faith, so I really cannot comment on whether or not the members are subject to control.

However, the leaders of the JWs "counsel" them on almost everything...how to dress, what to read, what movies to see, with whom they should associate, what music to listen to, what internet sites are allowed (actually the ONLY one endorsed by the WTS is the JW.org site) and many additional things. Granted, a JW is not forced to follow any of the rules, but those who are considered to be "independent thinkers" who decide for themselves on these many, many issues are generally then labelled as being "spiritually weak" or possibly "bad association" and the "good" JWs are cautioned about such ones.

JWs are told that all of the rules and counsel are there for their "protection" and the majority of JWs simply comply. There are, of course, JWs such as the ones who post here or on other forums who believe that simply by ignoring former members (apostates) and posting anonymously, they are in the clear. It's doubtful, however, that any of these JWs who are bending the rules would ever let their elders know how they spend their time online. Some of these JWs even "count their time" when posting, believing that quoting scriptures and posting openly only to non-JWs makes it okay. Their leaders disagree, but it's good that they do flout THIS rule at least.

That sounds awful. I am a free spirit so I never could have joined a religion like that, but of course if you were raised in it you would not know the difference. I was not raised in any religion and was not even looking for God or a religion but just discovered the Baha'i Faith during my first year of college because my older brother had become a Baha'i two years earlier.... I joined because of the spiritual and social teachings, not because of God. Me and God have had our problems over the years but I just started to get serious about working on those about six years ago.

If the JWs are so spiritual, why are they afraid of the outside world influences? My other hat is psychology and it is a hat I wore a lot longer than my religion hat.

Baha'is are encouraged to mix with all kinds of people and work with them in a spirit of harmony and unity. That is because we believe that humanity is all one people. I could never believe in any religion that was exclusive because that would man I was exalting myself over others and that is just not my style.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh, the stories we could share!! The "friends" we had originally rented the house to did more damage than I like to remember. They had asked at one point if they could put in a dog door in the small tool room attached to the garage. We thought that they would put in a legitimate dog door. They didn't. What they did was to cut a large hole in the outside door and put a flap of carpet over it. That let in a lot of cold air, and their dogs made a habit of chewing the insulation off the pipes that carried the hot water for the heated garage (not the best setup, for sure, but no problem until the insulation was gone and the dog door let in all of the cold air.)

During one severe cold snap this couple went on a trip to Florida, leaving their elderly uncle at the house. The pipes froze and burst, and the uncle refused to let us in to determine the damage. We got that fixed finally and thought everything was okay until they decided to leave. They had a "financial plan" that involved building up huge amounts of debt and then declaring bankruptcy. Because they had declared bankruptcy, they were not required to pay rent, which they, of course, didn't pay.

When they moved out in December, they made sure that there was no oil in the tank for the furnace, and then opened all the windows about two inches (hoping we wouldn't notice) so that the pipes would freeze again. They also allowed their dogs to pee all over the carpets and, because we had a sump pump in the basement to handle water that would sometimes seep in around the foundation, they cut the hose so that any water would just remain in the basement in order to flood it.

Fortunately, due to a rider that we insisted they get on their renters' insurance when they installed an above ground pool, we were able to get some help from the insurance company, but it was a struggle.

Gawd... that sounds positively awful! I never had anyone do any deliberate damage to the house or property, just non-paying tenants. Believe it or not, we have a tenant who has now been renting our ocean view house for about six years, and I let him fall behind on the rent, until finally he was 11,000 behind about a year ago....

Everyone told me to evict him and cut my losses but I just waited because I had a gut feeling he would pay eventually... As it turned out, about a year ago he made two installments of $5000 each within two months and since then he has been keeping up on the rent. He still owes me $2278 for rent and a water bill I paid for him, but that is a pittance. He is honest and never complains, but why would he complain to a landlord who cut him that much slack? Anyhow, the furnace/heat pump at that house died last November and I still have not replaced it so he has had to use space heaters all this time, but he never complained.... He also has a nice wood stove that would heat that house but he said he never used it. However, wood stoves are considered adequate heat by law in this state. I need to get that furnace replaced but there is a possible electric usage problem so I have had to send the power company over to assess that before I decide on a heating system. I think he went over yesterday, I hope so.

I just posted a Craigslist ad for my other house that is vacant and I already got two responses. I expect to get a lot more because I always do. I finally raised the rent from$1200 to $1500 because that is the going rate. In have had it at $1200 for 10 years and most apartments rent for that much or more around here. That house is on 3.5 acres on the river close to town so it is unique and many people want to rent it. I just have to be really careful who I rent to this time.

The tenants who owe me $6700 let the pipes freeze while they were living there by not turning the water on when it was freezing and I had to pay the plumber and a handyman to fix the drywall but it was not very much because they were home when it happened so they shut the water off, but the time the pipes broke in December 2018 they saw the water coming down and did not even turn it off at the circuit breaker (it is on a well) so it just kept coming until my husband got over there to turn it off. By then it had caused $6000 of damage but the insurance paid for it and it got completely remodeled in that part of the house and it looks brand new. If only I had not rented to that tenant who is trying to sue I would not be too worried, but till I know what will happen with him I will worry because he is pure evil so he is capable of anything....

 

[TransmutingSoul]

We gots lots of practice.
Bring it on, the worst thing that can happen is that they can prove that Baha'u'llah was a false prophet.... Lotsa luck... They'd have to prove all the prophecies in the Bible are wrong, including explaining how all those big buildings came to be located atop Mt. Carmel, and there are all them there pretty flowers too....

It is so much fun watching people try to disprove the Baha'i Faith....

Isaiah 35 King James Version (KJV)

35 The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 2 It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the Lord, and the excellency of our God.

Isaiah 2:3 "Many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the temple of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.4 The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem."He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."

OP answered.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, I don’t agree with most ideas that are highly suggestive, especially those calling into question the Bible’s stated timeline. This view would bring into question, not just Daniel, but all the prophets who mentioned Daniel.
Even Jesus quoted from Daniel....Jesus wouldn’t have done so, if Daniel had been a liar regarding the era he lived in. That would have called into question everything he wrote.

So, I don’t believe that POV.

Take care.

Daniel is critical for understanding Revelation. Thus there is good reason Christ tells us to refer to Daniel.

Together they give a firm year of 1844, which is also the year 1260.

Regards Tony