The Scientific Math of the Milky Way

[Native]

Hello Folks,

Abstract:
As a Natural Philosopher and a Comparative Mythologist, I also have the interest whether Ancient Mythology and it´s Stories of Creations fits with the Modern Science. In my mind there are lots of genuine similarities, but can these similarities confirm each other in order to live up to the claims of modern science?

Via my 40 years studies of Ancient Mythology, I´ve come to the conclusion that the ancient Stories of Creation deals spefically with the creation of the Milky Way (MW) and NOT the entire Universe. But what does the mathematics of the Milky Way really say?

Unfortunately (?) my right hand side of my brain does not allow my left hand side to come to order, so I now ask anybody "out there" if we can find out of working together with both sides of a brain:

How does the mathematical calculations of the Milky Way looks like and what do they really say and predict? And how do the calculations fit with the real galactic observations?

With the discovery of the Galactic Rotation Curve, the assumed Newtonian laws of celestial motions was contradicted, so which of these forces most logically describes the formation and observed motion in the Milky Way?

Thanks in advance from
"Native"

 

[Native]

Our Milky Way galaxy is a Barred Galaxy. When looking at this barred structure, it seems to me that it is impossible that there should be an attractive "heavy black hole force" in the center of this galactic type.

If looking at the galactic arms, it is impossible that these arms can take an abrupt 90 degree turn into the galactic bar according to "normal gravity". The opposite explanation seems more logic: There must be an outwards going motion from the center, out in the bars and further out in the galactic surroundings, just like a rotating two arm garden sprinkler.

When the observed galactic rotation curve was discovered, scientists were concerned that the galactic stars would be slung out of the galaxy, which was the cause they invented and inserted "dark matter" in order to hold the stars inside the galaxy.

Now: What if this observation REALLY shows an outgoing motion from the galactic center? This would certainly confirm the observed rotation curve, but how would this affect the hitherto assumed standard gravitational laws and calculations?

 

[joelr]

No that's not why. It was noticed that the rotating speed of objects near the edge of the galaxy were moving too fast and it suggested that there was invisible matter near the edges that was gravitationally effecting the objects.
But there are other reasons like gravitational lensing and the behavior of galaxy clusters that suggest additional matter as well.

The shape of the spiral arms is not a problem for gravity to explain. It's the rotation speeds of the stars near the edges.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No that's not why. It was noticed that the rotating speed of objects near the edge of the galaxy were moving too fast and it suggested that there was invisible matter near the edges that was gravitationally effecting the objects.
But there are other reasons like gravitational lensing and the behavior of galaxy clusters that suggest additional matter as well.

The shape of the spiral arms is not a problem for gravity to explain. It's the rotation speeds of the stars near the edges.

The spiral arms appear to be a result of a standing density wave. The arms themselves do not rotate:

Density wave theory - Wikipedia

 

[Skwim]

No that's not why. It was noticed that the rotating speed of objects near the edge of the galaxy were moving too fast and it suggested that there was invisible matter near the edges that was gravitationally effecting the objects.
But there are other reasons like gravitational lensing and the behavior of galaxy clusters that suggest additional matter as well.

The shape of the spiral arms is not a problem for gravity to explain. It's the rotation speeds of the stars near the edges.

What gravitational lensing are you referring to?

.

 

[Native]

No that's not why. It was noticed that the rotating speed of objects near the edge of the galaxy were moving too fast and it suggested that there was invisible matter near the edges that was gravitationally effecting the objects.

To conclude that "the objects in the Milky Way moves too fast" is nonsense. The objects moves according to the formational processes in the Milky Way, period.

If the scientists have said: "The objects in the Milky Way moves differently from what we´ve learned in the gravity model of celestial motions", this would be the correct scientific way of taking on this problem.

But they didn´t and instead they invented a dark metaphysical force instead of revising their theories.

 

[Native]

The spiral arms appear to be a result of a standing density wave. The arms themselves do not rotate:

It´s not "a standing wave" in any terms and of course the arms slowly rotates accordingly to the initial motion out of the galactic center, just like a two arm rotations garden sprinkler.

Even our Solar System orbits the galactic center in a circa 220 mill. year period. So of course the arms also are moving.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It´s not "a standing wave" in any terms

The standing density wave explains exactly the arm structure of a spiral galaxy. It makes no sense to denounce it in such a manner, and is about on par with saying a static charge isn't an electromagnetic charge.

 

[Native]

The standing density wave explains exactly the arm structure of a spiral galaxy. It makes no sense to denounce it in such a manner, and is about on par with saying a static charge isn't an electromagnetic charge.

Yes you can look at it as a "standing wave" but this don´t explain HOW it is made og HOW it naturally moves around the galactic center.

Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?

That's what the link you was provided is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To conclude that "the objects in the Milky Way moves too fast" is nonsense. The objects moves according to the formational processes in the Milky Way, period.

If the scientists have said: "The objects in the Milky Way moves differently from what we´ve learned in the gravity model of celestial motions", this would be the correct scientific way of taking on this problem.

But they didn´t and instead they invented a dark metaphysical force instead of revising their theories.

You ignored the fact that Dark Matter is supported by other evidence as well. The last time I checked you had no scientific evidence for your beliefs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It´s not "a standing wave" in any terms and of course the arms slowly rotates accordingly to the initial motion out of the galactic center, just like a two arm rotations garden sprinkler.

Even our Solar System orbits the galactic center in a circa 220 mill. year period. So of course the arms also are moving.

Why not? An unlearned denial is worthless. The simulations support the hypothesis. What do you have besides wild ranting and hand waving?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes you can look at it as a "standing wave" but this don´t explain HOW it is made og HOW it naturally moves around the galactic center.

Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?

do you even know what a "standing wave" is?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What gravitational lensing are you referring to?

.

The collisions of galaxies can separate out regular matter and dark matter. This was first observed by gravitational lensing in the Bullet Cluster:

Bullet Cluster - Wikipedia

 

[Native]

Native said: ↑
Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?

That's what the link you was provided is.

OK. but did you really consider how the Milky Way can have made this barred structure?

 

[Native]

You ignored the fact that Dark Matter is supported by other evidence as well. The last time I checked you had no scientific evidence for your beliefs

You and your "dark this and that" inventions and beliefs don´t get anywhere with me.

Show me a piece of dark matter before you reply any further

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Native said: ↑
Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?


OK. but did you really consider how the Milky Way can have made this barred structure?

It's due to an instability in the stellar disk.

 

[Native]

It's due to an instability in the stellar disk.

This isn´t much of an explanation, is it? As the Milky Way is a rotating structure, EVERYTHING is in an instable condition, isn´t it?

No, please explain to me how the bars in the Milky Way are formed right from the center and out in the galactic arms where these are swirling around.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You and your "dark this and that" inventions and beliefs don´t get anywhere with me.

Show me a piece of dark matter before you reply any further

That is only because you cannot understand how science is done in the first place.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Native said: ↑
Besides this: How do you explain the barred structure in the Milky Way?


OK. but did you really consider how the Milky Way can have made this barred structure?

Didn't I provide a link on that already?